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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Feb 14, 2017 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: bass: uk vs usa

Was browsing in wikipedia, reading the Eric Avery page (founding member and bass player w/Jane's Addiction), and i found this quote:

"Avery has singled Peter Hook of Joy Division and New Order as his major influence on bass playing, considering that British bassists were deeper with the instrument as "American rock bass is kick drum, it's just kick drum and then the root note of what the guitar player is doing." "

It's a curious thing to read, but not being a musician myself, i can only react as a long-time listener of music, many forms and styles.

However, knowing this forum to be chock full of people with more knowledge and experience from a musician's perspective, what do you think of the above quote, is there any truth to it?

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Poster: craven714 Date: Feb 14, 2017 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

first and foremost, it is gr8 seeing your name pop up.
well wishes. long time, no type...
cant say anything more to add really. I agree with your and SDH views. Why you would want to compare any bass from the early tech era is a head scratcher for me. That was the age of the first 'good' drum machines. And that changed everything imo. Being an 80s child, I learned how to drum with Depeche Mode and such. Like a freakin robot, but it taught to be metronomic. It was only til Billy taught it was "like dancing" that helped things swing.

My bass player for the last 9 years is gifted. So here come the name drops: he can do the listed "kick drum, root note" /Mmerican driving rock if needed. But he plays like a combination of John Entwistle and....who's that other guy??
Oh yeah. WE want PHIL!! We want PHIL!!
But yeah,also, once you get to the true jazz thing, all bets are off. There are many facets and dimensions to you Q you know.
But, it is nice to learn the have same sex marriage in AZ. whoda thunk...

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Poster: Vermoontains Date: Feb 16, 2017 2:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: trout too

I think the bass and trout are much better here. Maybe UK cod has an edge. You can't even spell codger without cod. And the flounder and fluke there too.

Bass Ale and Budweiser is a story for another day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIZMdanCZtM

Surprised no one rang Sir Paul's chime.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Feb 15, 2017 6:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Tim Bogert, Phil Lesh, James Jamerson, Carol Kane, Larry Graham, Flea, Les Claypool, Donald "Duck" Dunn
There are great bass players from both sides of the pond. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know which side wins. Yes I am, music fans are the winners.

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Poster: HankAndLeeStamper Date: Feb 15, 2017 7:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Can't mention some of those fellas without first talking about my homeboy down here: George Porter, Jr.
A true godfather of the funky bass.
SDH, I think jiggery-pokery is, not kidding, the most quotable phrase the late lamented-by-some-but-not-me Scalia threw out in an opinion. Rob may know of an older usage than that, but he's the person i first heard/read use that phrase.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Feb 17, 2017 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Ah, The Meters. I've heard a lot about them, but am not really familiar with their music. I may have to do some interweb research .

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Poster: Shug909 Date: Feb 14, 2017 8:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jamerson

For USA

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Arb, I'm jumping back up the thread because I'm blathering away down below and I just forgot the common courtesy of saying hello. How are things with you? Are you still domiciled in Eastern Europe?

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Feb 15, 2017 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Hi Rob, great seeing your name/post! Yes, still in near-proximity to your own time zone, doing well by doing what i like. I hope the same of you of course, and all the old crowd.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Hey Arb, of course, I am HUGELY biased, but have always thought this to be true, and just have Jack Bruce as exhibit # 1...he was so into it, as a musical sort, from an early age, across blues/jazz/r&r, that it pales any comparison of our US players that I rank right there w him in r&r. Take Phil or Jack C., two other top bass players, they had a lot of catching up to do when they got serious in the mid 60s, compared to Jack B...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Jack Cassidy was/is the stand out bass player of that scene I have no doubt. Phil Lesh, great musician that he is, is a low-tuned guitar player. There's a difference between playing bass and being a bass player and Lesh is in no way fulfilling the role of a traditional bass player.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Oh you got that right; the bass player in the band I have often spoken of (that I worked for in the 70s) and I talked about this often...virtually "lead" bass.

I think that though Jack B. wasn't solely responsible for bass taking on a new role in r&r, the underappreciated aspect of CREAM was that both he and Ginger, by virtue of the 3 piece band, revolutionized what folks thought about how to use both those instruments in r&r, IMHO (well, lots of other folks have said similar things; to be honest, what I love about all the CREAM docuflicks is that THAT is what everyone talks about...not EC, but what those two did).

Rhythm sections were revolutionized by the end of 60s, and I think it even feedback on Jazz/blues in part...ironically, today, one can just run a sound machine to take care of that entire contribution, eh?

Hmmm.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

It's real shame that so much of what passes for 'popular' music these days is studio created by electronic jiggery pokery. It makes it all entirely soulless to my ears. 

Now I'm very very far from being enough of a music historian to know, but to my mind the greatest rhythm section ever were Ron Carter and Tony Williams in the 65 to 68 Miles Davis Quintet and I'm sure they must have had some impact on the developing rock musicians of the period.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 15, 2017 5:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Jiggery Pokery?

How the hell did I miss that one?

The possibilities are endless. I may have to come back to this one later, I'd want to do it proper justice.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 14, 2017 1:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

No doubt on that Quintet's influence; I am VERY underexposed when it comes to this stuff, except via my limited experience but that bass player that I used to keep up with--he talked about MDQ a lot...

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Feb 14, 2017 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Really what Cream did, and most of the people we like did, was to take what Coltrane/Miles were doing and adapt it to Rock, which was amazing . Traditional jazz baas playing is sort hard to hear, unless aggressively miked . Drummers like Elvin Jones , and Tony Williams had already freed up what you could do, but with bass, it is mostly people from the same late 60's period as Cream that did the same or bass, Dave Holland, Stanley Clarke, Miroslav Vitous , etc.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 14, 2017 1:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

I am sure you are right, DD; as I was saying to Rob, I am really limited in these discussions as I only have ever "heard" people talk about the Jazz greats...as I've watched all the CREAM specials, it's all that Ginger talks about (his "induction" to the Jazz world, "H" included, in the late 50s), and how he NEVER wanted to be called anything but a "jazz drummer". And that friend in the DEAD cover band that played bass was always talking about Bruce, Jazz influences, etc., etc. He also talked about what Lesh did that was different as well...but in the end, I really just "know" that I worship Bruce, and like a number of brits like Entwhistle, Sir Paul, and even Sting, w/out being able to say "who are the true brit greats?" if pressed...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Dudley, it sounds like you're alluding to the sort of thing I was trying to say with reference to Ron Carter, Tony Williams and the Miles Davis Quintet but with much deeper understanding. Thank you.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

I can see this. Just look at all of the great UK players we've seen over the years and compare that with the number of great US players. My list is definitely heavily leaning towards the Eastern side of the Pond. Now, when it come to jazz players, that's entirely different story.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

I'll have to admit that when it comes to 'rock' bass I just haven't been paying that much attention. I'll have to agree with you that, on balance, you probably have the majority of stand out jazz bass players on your side of the water, but when it comers right down to it I can't really decide between Ron Carter and Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen for my all time favourite. Here's Niels-Henning playing with Christian McBride, no slouch on the bass himself. This is music making of the highest calibre,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ne51BFpF9M

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Yep. He's a beast.

I think Graham Maby may be my favorite Brit "rock" bass player.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Graham Maby is outstanding - as indeed is his bandmate Joe Jackson of course. Some talented people just don't get the recognition they deserve while mediocrities flourish.

Going to give a mention to the late, great Chris Squire too who powerhoused Yes through their 70s peak.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Feb 14, 2017 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

The Flourishing Mediocrities.

I think they played at my wedding.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Feb 14, 2017 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: bass: uk vs usa

Well I'm glad they didn't set the tone for what followed.