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tv   Cross Talk  RT  April 1, 2022 11:30am-12:01pm EDT

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social media prevalence, and these companies are really giving in to some kind of new way for cancel culture that is trying to ban. electra roman, acting out of it. it's something that has never been done before, except for by nazi is absolutely ridiculous and need stange to which politicians try to make people who knew that russian cultures back thing and then you should stay away from it. it's something that we haven't even seen during the height of the cold war. you know, they were russian octave conforming in new york, even during the most intense confrontations. but nowadays they are trying to ran band russian sports figures from international competition. russian athletes are not allowed anymore,
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where the outcry was the performance in their being canceled regardless of their stance on russian policy. and this is the definition of racism. this is the definition of rock cobia when a major force opposing the russian military's advance in ukraine is neo nazi group . the as of the tale in which some western media outlets have been glorifying as freedom fighters. but prior to the conflict as of have been widely condemned, internationally sanctioned by the us and even bound from social media. she's donald quarter force like a chameleon changes, colors from a group of neo nazis to freedom fighters with ease. it's the as off battalion, at least the way the western media portrays it back in 2014 the times, described as off as a group formed by white supremacists. now it's headlines feature a quote from the organization claiming they're fighting the real nazis as of deeds though. tell a different story though. it's useless. sheila gruesome,
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you know, playing host who you originally reason for people with eyes and ears. there's no doubt about who these people really are, but for the western media, it doesn't matter if an armed group believes in genocide or is guided by some insane ideas. if they're fighting washington's enemies, it seems like no expense will be spared to make them look like angels look at all the terrorists. western outlets have either tried to look toned down or supported in the past. i will, mohammed al gilani is a former member of both al qaeda and isis the same man that p b s gave a platform to as the leader of the most dominant armed anti government group in syria. even osama bin ladin was hailed as an anti soviet freedom fighter by the western media for many years. the same man who was responsible for this, ah, ah,
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we could go as far back as 1922 when the western media literally glorified ad off hitler for as long as he was only talking smack on juice and communists. of course, he was hailed as a new popular idol, the anti red. it just goes to show as long as other guys are paying the price for these people's actions. the western media will sing their praises. and right now it's as of in the spotlight. there's not sees that are out, that we say they're not marketable and let's get them of social. let's get a lot of social media. let's put them in the back of the room. not a fan of those nazi's, but then there are nazis up. there are little more cinematic it's more exciting. the more exciting the industry kids there industry kids, there are, we hand picked them. they are selected. you've been selected as off battalion. they're the nazis to the moment. when you,
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thanks for joining us here in asi international. went back at the top of the i with me. oh, i see ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle as rushes military operation ukraine interest a 2nd month. a popular dd, a parlor game, has come into existence. let's call it who's winning and who's losing. sadly, there isn't much time or interest in how to end the conflict. in the meantime, ukraine's fate is being decided, ah,
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crossing the conflict in ukraine, i'm joined by my guess why petro in kingston. he is a professor of political science at the university of rhode island in delmar. we have scott ritter. he is a former intelligence officer and a united nations weapons inspector and in brussels. we cross a gilbert doctorow. he is an independent political analyst and historian or a gentleman cross cycles. in fact, that means you can jump in any time you want, and i always appreciate it's got a nickel. i 1st nickel, i mean it's very interesting watching b who's winning and who's losing a game on table tv. a plethora of articles always in the, in the main broad sheets. but there seems to be preciously little interests and how to end the conflict. that doesn't mean to say that things aren't going on there. there's a plan. there's, there's a, a for a format in bare room though when it's sam ball. i'm covering it very weak, watching it very, very carefully here. but it doesn't seem to get a whole lot of play. and all it takes is secretaries. they blinked and say, well,
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we're not, we don't think the russians are serious and then there's no discussion any further . how do you see this here? because there seems to be many elements in the media and in the political classes in the west that actually want to see this war to continue go ahead, nikolai. oh, well, there are those who are you. it's in america's geo strategic interest to prolong this war to turn it into, ah, a russian, her 2nd organic dan or vietnam or something like that. all of these views overlook the devastation that's occurring in ukraine itself and the damage also that is being done to the russian economy and to the economies of europe or in general. and i think that there is indeed, probably some strategy involved vibe and keeps alluding to it in
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confusing and mysterious ways about a new world order. ah, hopefully the parameters of this new world order will become clearer to us mere mortals soon. yeah. well, i think that the war all daughter is going to be some very thick lines. ok of separation. scott, how do you see this? i mean, you know something about the military. i'm not interested in who is winning and who's losing. i'm interested in seeing the conflict resolved with su, deaths as possible on both sides here. but i, it really does disturb me, but the kind of glee that you know, you throw in the graphics and that, you know, there's a counter offensive and all that. the way i love my sources, tell me and there's, there's actually very little resistance from the army ukrainian army itself. it's these neo nazi battalions that are fighting to the death. go ahead, scott. i don't know. i mean, is clear to me that there's a significant, a military operation taking place in ukraine that involves heavy fighting on both sides of what i can say is this the united
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states has said that there have been multiple efforts by senior military officials here in the united states to reach out and contact their counterparts in russia, but that the phones aren't being answered, which should tell you everything you need to know about. the gravitas that should be attached to this ongoing western information warfare operation being waged by both western mainstream media and the united states and nato. i'm, you know, propaganda is propaganda of if it's targeted it right now. it appears western propaganda is targeted for it to 3 target, one being of the, the, the, the, the civilians here at home to a generate outraged. because our outrage will then you'll political resolve on the part of american politicians who will pressure their european counterparts to
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engage in very um, a stringent economic sanctions and a, and in the revitalization of nato. and then there's also the, the, the, the effort to bolster ukrainian spirits to let and believe them, maybe they're doing better than they can. the 3rd one of course, is to influence a russian domestic political opinion in an effort to create pressure from within russia. on the russian government to alter their behavior in ukraine. ok. the only one that counts as far as rushes concerned is the 3rd $1.00 and $1.00 i, i don't believe it's there is a massive a sky, russia. it's scott, it's just not working. all 3 of the points you mentioned are utter failures here. you know, gilbert, one of the things i find very curious in looking at these a negotiation of formats. it's all about up the future of ukraine's external
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security relations. what is absent is that the internal makeup of ukraine, and i think nobody really wants to go there. but typically in ukraine and the americans and the british and other might members of nato don't want to go there either. because what's happening, the more the these talk sir, are, are the clock is run out. the more and i'm just speaking more my it myself. i see a partition going on here. and if we don't get this conflict resolved sooner rather than later than it will be a de facto partition gilbert, your thoughts, i think it will be resolved later on sooner. ok. later being in a time perspective of 2 or 3 weeks, the russians have achieved very important territorial janes in the territories, which they, where they concentrate their efforts and where they had the, i don't you ask militia, joined them from the north. and they came up from the south,
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they surrounded marvel. they took essentially the whole of the series of literal, that is there that has great strategic importance and great economic importance for rush. however, just for ends that will rain remain forever with russia. now they are turning around and addressing the issue, which with which they started the war, which is to secure the don't ask, and the guns k o blasts as they were called republics as their call today. and members, cotton, a constituent of elements of the russian feder, as a surely will be in a matter of months. now what was missing here is to retort the, the le ganske republic. now a car has under its control, 93 percent of the territory that was once the guns lost that assayed status before the war began in 2014. unfortunately, don't ask is our dinners in
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a different situation and don't ask the the powers who forties control only 50 percent of the land that was once the or boost of done in the next and the, or the obstacle. there are what, what prevent them from achieving similar success to guns? is that most of the $100000.00? 0, soldiers that ukraine concentrated on the yep. a river. it's initial plans to over run these republics. and they would have done that. had the russians not intervened . that force is still there and what we're about to see is the russians redirecting their fire power and coming up from the rear, striking at those $100000.00 ukrainian soldiers. so going over there, this is the, the 2nd stage. what we heard, we heard earlier that the 1st stage of the operation is over. let me go back to a nikolai, i mean, looking at, you know, the failure to or a president biden,
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to europe. i mean, that, that was a sight to see. but you know, a people say they were gaffs, but i think he told the truth, although every single time this is not even about ukraine, it's about regime change in russia. that's what i glean from what he had to say gilbert, i'm sorry, nick nick like go ahead. well he just. busy laid bare his thinking and inversions lay. i mean, we all followed by his career for many years. he's actually co authored an article on, on relations with russia, russia future. and it's all been very clear from the beginning that he is no friend of russia. and it's therefore not surprising that his professions of understanding and care for the russian people fall on on deaf ears. so not nothing surprising there. but nichol, i mean,
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if you have like victoria new and she was in the obama administration, i mean, she is really the godmother of the my don, losing crimea losing the don bass and now she's back. ok. and i've always harvey that victoria knew. and when she gets her clause into ukraine, it just gets smaller and smaller. not really about joe biden. it's about a mindset in the foreign policy elite, nikolai. yes, and that mindset is not going away. and i think it's obviously one of the things that eventually drove put in to this kind of reaction which is not to justify the reaction i, i am one of those who continue to hope that there could have been some sort of negotiation. i think that prior to this invasion, russia actually had the diplomatic upper hand, by arguing,
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pointing to the fact that the western intelligence agencies were predicting invasion. but they're not. it happened now i think the shoes on the a little bit on the other foot, and it's making the case for russia being an aggressor, unfortunately that much easier in the west. and that's another hurdle to overcome. reaching out, it's a good point, but scott and scott, russia, it was always the aggressor, irrespective of what it does, a bit invaded or didn't invade it. i mean, i agree with nikolai on a rhetorical level, but i mean, this is a godsend for people like victoria new and because they have so much more work to do, go ahead be one minute before we go to the right. go ahead. scott. i don't think russia cares victoria, and i don't think russia cure. i don't think they care about biden, or anybody. russia is going to do a rush is going to do to resolve its own security problems. and they're, they're in the ukraine right now doing just that. and i think ukraine will unfold on a time table. it's dictated by moscow,
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by brussels not by washington. d. c. now by seeing in well, it's at, that's very interesting because when you are the way i've looked at the coverage of it, i mean, in the way the media leads and political leads. this is their story. it really has its very divorced from the events going on on the ground. and i, i tend to agree with scott. moscow is going to do what it's going to do when it's done and saying it's going to say it's done. on that point, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break about about short break. we'll continue our discussion on the conflict in ukraine. stay with arte ah ah ah ah
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ah, welcome at the cross walk, we're all things are considered on peter level t. reminder, we're discussing the conflict in ukraine. ah, let's go back to gilbert in brussels, gilbert. what kind of ukraine is going to come out of this? um, you know, we had the, the, the coo and 2014, the crimea voted to leave. ah, don bass separated itself from kev. we're looking at the, the military operation alga, russia's military operation. now it will lose its access to the see. most definitely, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. so what kind of ukraine is that are going to be, is going to be a rum state um, you know, with alisha ideology and all of that, i mean, it, is that something that he wants?
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does anybody want that go ahead? gilbert run state might be a misnomer because speaking about the republics and don't boss and the territory to the south, but it's been conquered in the last 4 weeks fighting the, getting the russians control over the whole see literally that's maybe 15 percent of the territory crane that isn't a much greater percentage of the population before the war. so what we, what which remains to be seen is whether there will be a genuine partition between the eastern part of the but remains of ukraine, which has a fairly high percentage of, or had before the support high percentage of russian speakers and people who identify themselves as well as russian, as that's likely and the western side of the upper which has a considerably higher percentage of people who consider themselves to be ukranian
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speakers. that remains possibility, but i think it's unlikely now who will take control of that depends on the weeks ahead. what will be the results? the russians declare from the beginning, they wanted the notification and demilitarization. now that may be a nice object of negotiations, but i think it's a still more effective objective in action on the ground. the russians declared today that they had destroyed 90 percent of more of the cranium, military production. they, if they succeed in smashing the $100000.00 ukranian army that is parked on the left bank on the west of the camper, then they will effectively both dina and demilitarize ukraine. whatever one wants to put in the pit down on a piece of paper emitted your landscape sign before he runs away or is hanged. okay,
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we for he run. so yes, an interesting way of putting in nikolai who's, who's going to determine the outcome of this conflict here, and what would be a fair outcome? ok, make yourself a neutral observer? what would be fair at the end of the day? i want to keep our keep our viewers in mind with, you know, thinking about 8 years of war and the don bass, which the west took no interest in whatsoever. you know, that is very, very important. the west doesn't recognize the cry and cry me a referendum, but the certainly the crimean to do so. we're at this stage here, what would be fair or is that impossible to answer? go ahead. i'm not sure that we can talk in terms of fairness. now that'll have to be determined over more than our lifetimes, unlink pending on interpretations. i'd like to say a few words, literally, a single words about the kind of ukraine that we're going to see at the, or after military. the military actions are over. we will no doubt
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have a more nationalistic ukraine, a weaker ukraine, a more illiberal ukraine. we're already seeing the manifestations of this in the rest of more or less, every opposition figure in ukraine. and of course, a more resentful ukraine for this generation. at least 1211. what, where is it? how then an will that be resent men against the west as well? yes. yes, yes. and, and the best lesson i think that ah, thoughtful ukrainian elite can take out of this is to be more reliant on their own interests and think about their own interests. first as independent actors. well, you saying the quiet part out loud? because scott at that was going to be my question to do. who is the decision maker
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here? because you know, if is a lensky runs away, i mean, is he, is he a free agent? is, does he a of a, does he, a person that can actually make a decision in your opinion, scott? well, the russians certainly hope is because all of these finality is that people expect out of this conflict, for instance, ukrainian recognition. the crimea is russia ukrainian recognition that the former august's of logan's contin yeske are now independent of ukraine. perhaps expanded to include a mario, poland, a, and in other areas around the age of literal on. this can only happen in a, in a way that can be accepted by the west. if zalinski signs onto it, you know, he has been elevated to a winston churchill like aerobic figure in the west has articulated that it is up to him to dictate the terms of peace. so your zalinski of course has
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a lot of pressure. um he if he surrenders too fast, he might get hung by the right wing nationalists if he drags this thing on the west is going to be a little bit more reticent about provide enough, you know, military support that simply gets blown up or captured by the russians, so there's a balancing act, but at the end of the day, zelinski is the only authority in ukraine. they can provide legitimacy to a russian victory, and there will be a russian victory. so it's in russia's best interest, i believe, to keep zalinski empowered to keep him viable and to keep him alive. so that of the surrender. who can be eventually negotiated nichol. i you want to jump in there had a word go ahead about russian victory. i agree every, every thing on the law that we can see on the map and in the cards, points to a russian victory. partly because they've hardly deployed a sufficient. i mean,
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i don't one with the fish forces, but i mean they're there. they have fewer people there and they have much greater resources available to them to carry this thing out of to accessible conclusions. but the point is, and this happened at the end of the last and go, she ations in, in a stumble. what if russia loses heart? what if the negotiating team actually is given orders to prepare, you know, some sort of agreement without fulfilling the military objectives and the political objectives stated, there could be a tremendous backlash, as there was right after the end of the announcement. in a stumble, that some sort of major progress had been made. this was not met well in russian society. yeah. i actually when we did a program on that and i but again,
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i what i thought it focus on external matters. it didn't talk about internal and that's what i've had where the real kind of odd because it was only half the story here. gilbert, let me kind of change gears here. what is the future of nato? because nato failed to keep the peace and for all the propaganda that comes out of that organization, there is not a whole lot of unity, and i think it's only one to get worse here. i think nato and it's, it's dr to dr. russia out of europe forever. his actually come up empty handed gilbert. go ahead. but judgment on that really depends on who you're talking to. if you're speaking to people in western europe, there also, you know, there was never been so united and just look what we have undertaken. if you're speaking to outside observers, like myself, and i think you're, you're other analysts in that community in a situation is very different. russia has taken the beauty of it. the nato was
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taken the beating in terms of prestige. in terms of, it's my ability as a alliance that can pretend that it can protect its members the other states to consider themselves frontlines, things like the baltic, slaves like poland. i think they all love to take, take notice that united states is standing back and has offered only a mid to the material aide to ukraine. a lot of it, by the way, equipment coming out of storage and not necessarily usable. but did i have states has in every way indicated it will not act up to help you craned. oh, keep its, its borders, keep its sovereignty and so forth, even to the extent. and as far as i understand, united states has specifically said they will not stand as a guarantor of ukrainian sovereignty under the terms of any peace, the agreement to the may be concluded. if i may just switch back
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a moment to the question of mr. soleski, i'm not so sure it's so simple. and that's for sure that his maintaining his position is in russia's, russia's interests, and not so sure. the concluding abuse treaty is in russia's interests really makes no difference. it is force that speaks here. and i think any european power, who would like to go in again to ukraine after this over would be out of it's might . so yeah, cranes future, whether it ratified by a piece tree, not ratified by history, will be the same as regards to success, which are still against zelinski. he will be a very ugly personnel. and the real plug, cleanest of the kevin regime, will be clear. and whoever succeed zalinski, cholenski is an actor that ascii has been fed all this lines by the best of ustr firms, as the landscape is a great information war, a deficit for russia. so if he's gone so much better, it's got the thing that i look at as i look at
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a lot of these negotiations of just is this being bluster because i tend to agree with what you said on this program. is that political facts and the ground will determine the outcome here and you know, you can have all the talk you want. but at the end of the day, what did that stalin say? that a how many divisions as the pope have go ahead. scott: no that's, that's absolutely true. um, you know, we are prisoners to the information we have right now of the west is very effective . it a flooding of the battlefield, so to speak in this information war with data of that to projects. one image. russia has not been so effective encountering that, and i am again, i think that's because russia simply doesn't care. russia isn't involved in information war rushes involved in real war. and, you know, hopefully for the sake of russia, of that war is progressing along the lines that are acceptable to the political
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leadership in the military and the military can accomplish this. i do agree that if russia stop short of fails to achieve effective denounce vacation, and i will tell you this. if the next leader of ukraine is a prisoner to the far right is, is ugly as the gentleman speaks of been russia lost this war. because d nice vacation isn't just a physical destruction of a soft on bus and the other national battalions de notification is the liquidation of the ideology of step arm, band error that resides and leveled no less. russia takes care of that. they haven't d modified anything. so i hope will j campaigns going to be broader and so that many people think having to have to fight that ideology in this century as well. who would have thought as all the time. we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in kingston, delmar, and in brussels. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here. dorothy. see you next time. remember crossed up rules ah
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ah, and the oil deck, we've bombed in the western western city of belgrade. moscow say he has carried down the tank while ukraine has not the can funds no denied in with . and i take for the via the ambush, while reporting on the streets of ukraine's watering city of mario this road just before this building with was showed us also this, our rushes permanent to visit the india and say is western on reliability will grow bilateral trade and national currency.

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