tv Worlds Apart RT May 9, 2018 11:30pm-12:01am EDT
welcome to worlds apart i mean is parliament elected protests later and he called and as prime minister on tuesday after weeks of peaceful and usually joyce protests having downs their way to the most dramatic power transition in the country's modern history what will it take for armenia's new leadership to give its people what they're asking for well to discuss that i'm now joined by. international media liaison for nicole. and it's great to talk to you thank you very much for being here with us i understand it's been a very very long and joyce day for you so thank you again for joining us i am going to graduations thank you for having me and thank you now mr passion and managed to get the support of the of about half the parliament fifty nine out of one hundred five members of parliament supported him and that both comes on the heels of another woad barely a week ago when the majority of lawmakers rejected his candidacy what has happened
in those few days to alter the mood in parliament so much well i think what's happened specifically is that the republican party has had to come to terms with the mood of the country and the public opinion and they've. had no choice but to vote. as the next prime minister of armenia now when the new. election or selection brother broke his supporters took to the streets many of them wearing wide close reach i understand were a symbols a symbol of their hopes for the country what is your understanding of what people expect from the new leadership well i think what most people expect from the new leadership is exactly what. has been talking about throughout this campaign which is that the new government will be based on transparency legitimacy will be founded on the agenda missy legitimacy by the people will be based on transparency and justice and i think that's what the. people expect and i am pretty sure that that
is what will be delivering now i've heard many armenians say that what they hope for is an economic and political system serving and benefiting the people rather than clans and i think this is something that we can all relate to but it's easier said than done because armenia is a very close knit society with strong family connections with maybe informal institutions do you think that's going to present a problem while trying to read the system of the clan influence well i don't think the main problem in armenia is clans or family ties i think the main problem in armenia has been the oligarchic system and pasha is very specifically said that all of our x. will not be part of his government and that there will be a level playing field for all businesses and i think that's what people expect it well and number of former soviet republics russia ukraine georgia to some extent even was back east on have attempted to limit the influence of big businesses or
big families important families on power with let's say very very in degrees of success generally speaking it's very difficult because powerful and reach people do not like to lose their privileges what makes you believe that i mean you will find it easier well i think first of all is the general mood of this revolution it was won based on solidarity and love throughout society first of all second of all i think even the big businesses realize that for the basic sustainability of the country the rules of engagement need to change so even for the big businesses for them to continue to maintain their businesses the the system needs to change and i think that is what it will ultimately lead to the. leveling of the playing field here while bufkin but let me challenge you here a little bit if you talk to the ukrainians or georgians many of them would tell you that their own brother. lucian's were allowed by law for their countries their
concern for ed their hatred of corruption their very strong desire to see genuine democratic institutions big build in their countries and i think some of them are disappointed right now again of what makes armenia different from either ukraine or georgia well first of all i think it's important to note that armenia is not ukraine or georgia and that our experience is unique to certain extent. i think for first of all we're we're building on the success and the failures of past efforts to address the issues that you're talking about so in many ways we have a leg up on anything that's been tried in the past. and i think time will tell how successful will be but i'm very hopeful if i may follow up on that a little bit i know you believe as we all are as we all do that our countries are unique and i know that in your previous academic experience you you had an
opportunity of studying the experiences of many post soviet republics and way to democratic or. democratic transitions depending on the on your point of view what is some of the experiences that you think deserve the attention in terms of i mean elating or on the contrary trying to avoid the special sauce and all of this is comes down to. political will and i think what nicol touching on represents for many people is finally a leader that has the political will because quite frankly a lot of the reforms i need to be done are not radical reforms they're not they're not you know we don't need to reinvent the wheel here really all it takes is some basic political will and i think that's what nicol pushing represents and that's what nicol cautions governments there's going to enact now i know you've written and i could make paper on the so-called political regimes. which appeared to some
democratic practices but. while also sticking to the autocratic governance when it comes to their political and economic institutions and i think there is a widespread belief in the west that once you take a corrupt or an autocratic leader out of power then democracy sort of naturally blossoms is that what you expect to happen in armenia no because i don't think that democracy is necessarily a linear thing i think what i tried to show my paper is that this hybrid state of not quite a talker see and not quite democracy can actually be a stable form of government but actually in that same paper the model that is presented shows that there are pathways to overcoming this hybrid regime and that specifically happens at a point when civil society and political opposition join forces and actually that's exactly what happened in armenia i wonder if you expect these democratic transition to be fully grassroots i mean fully grown from within or do you count on supports
from let's say the european union and other western countries in terms of strengthening and they believe in and perhaps financing some of those changes well look i think all countries how some sort of technical assistance can always be helpful but this is at its core a democrat a grassroots effort by the armenian people for the armenian people so ultimately whatever you see coming out of the nuchal question young administrator is going to be based on armenian values armenian tendencies and armenian people power now you said before that there you don't really need to invent the wheel and we all understand what's good for societies in political and economic terms but i think you know the experience of my country of russia shows that. the difficulty lies in not so much defining what needs to be done but understanding how it could be done.
how you can bring those new institutions and tailor them to your culture in a way to allow both to work in sync rather than sabotaging one another or subverting one another i wonder if there is an understanding on your side in new cold cash announced team off where you should begin what priorities should come first in order to turn this current euphoria into something more long lasting into something that will power those changes over the long call with regard to how things need to be done there's plenty of bright minds in armenia that can figure that out and are figuring it out but i think like i mentioned previously more important than how things should be done is whether or not they're done at all and come straight from the political will. reforms that the nickel question administration is going to be undertaking are going to be based on as i mentioned the principles of legitimacy transparency and justice so whatever the immediate reforms are going to be are going to be ones that really are just require some
political will and are geared towards or focused towards increasing justice and increasing transparency and are going to be founded on the legitimacy that the administration has on behalf of the people which frankly no previous armenian government has ever had i know that this idea of civil ownership people saying that this is our country belongs to as the power has to be accountable to us has been very prominent during these protests and during their protests before and it's easy to own victories it's much more difficult to own disappointments or frustrations how much time do you think the current leadership has to sustain this current infuses you know keep this momentum running you know i think the question is. it's the wrong question to ask because it's really not a matter of time as long as the people trust. nicol pasha. the
reforms they will they are ready for the long haul everyone understands here with all the conversations i've had over the past few days everyone understands the now's the time to roll up our sleeves and really get to the hard work no one expects armenia to change overnight and really that's an unrealistic expectation but people the important thing is that the average armenian use a real means to feel that tomorrow will be better than today and really that's not even about any concrete reforms that's really a psychological state and i think that's what this revolution has really brought to within their i mean people well the reason i'm asking this question is because for many of these changes to happen you will also have to make sacrifices for example armenia has a very huge foreign to you know to to to manage it you will have to kod the government spending perhaps make other painful sacrifices and i think you know human experience shows that people's resilience also has its limits one of the
reasons people took to the streets right now is because they want. first and foremost i believe and correct me if i'm wrong economic change they want to see economic development and democratic and political development as well but from my understanding that main motivations are all economic nature and i think dad has a set expiration point don't you think so you know i have to disagree with you on that but because actually if you look at g.d.p. per capita between army if you compare armenian georgia for example is quite comparable and in some cases armenia is actually has a higher g.d.p. per capita than georgia however before this revolution the the feeling was it was not that tomorrow would be better today than today whereas in georgia my experience has often been that the average georgian his office felt the to moral be better than today so really it is about finally people believing in the fact that tomorrow will be better than today well we have to take
you. so you economic war is unfolding in the realm of education the right to education is being supplanted by the right to access education it's high education is becoming just another product that can be pulled from the souls but it's not just about education anymore it's also about running a business where you could. look good it's also. going to follow they couldn't be. more is the place of students in this business model before college i was born
now in an extremely more high education the new global economic war. welcome back to worlds apart but the bobcats there grigory an international media liaison for any called transition team but can i know that you hold a musters degree in political communications so let me ask you specifically about the political personality often he called passion and you said in a one of your earlier interviews that initially you didn't like him much i'm sure that has changed by now but still what were some of those things that initially made you skeptical about him quite frankly. my issues with
michael question you know were less about nickel question and was more about his associations with the first president eleventh or about threats shown on will with whom i have you know political disagreements with but what nicol pasha has done is turkey has turned someone like me a skeptic into a true believer because he has earned that respect for years and years i've seen him speak at parliament and say exactly the things that is on the minds of the average armenian he has he has despite my best efforts earned the respect earn my respect and. showing the kind of leadership that i think this country needs right now now mr passion and the parents also changed quite a bit in recent months he's now compared to give our because if he's beer then he's predilection for military fatigues but you can still find pictures on the internet of him being clean shaven and the wearing a nice suit how much do you think that change in appearance contributed to to the rise in his popularity daz image matter at all the visual projection of his persona
i mean let's be honest nicole pasha is a p.r. genius. the way he has portrayed himself not just as you know an m.p. who wears a suit but as an actual leader of the people is undeniable so yeah of course that has an impact however i think it would be foolish to think that all of this was based on image because really more than an image it has to do with the contents of what he represents and what he stands for now one thing that viewers may not know about i mean is that it is a country where chasse lessons are compulsory for children and chest skills are something we usually associate with politics and especially geopolitics how good is mr passion now and thinking through how he is the moves and combinations house through these he as a political calculator well answer that by referencing former president serzh
sarkisian who many often used to label as a chess master he was the president of the chess federation and i think what nicol passion on showed was that he checked and then checkmated the president of the chess federation i. think that demonstrates his chest skills and his political skills but i mean let's be fair it's only i mean it's not the beginning for him he has a very long and sometimes painful career mr passion and after all has been jailed for. political activists before but when it comes to governance it's only the beginning do you think keeping power and making and meaningful change will be just as easy as taking it well look i think demonstrates. certain attributes that are very rare in armenia and the world which is the the ability to reflect to learn from his own past mistakes and successes and also to critically
listen to the people around him i have been really impressed by his ability to listen carefully to. the core team and to really be able to pick and choose the things that make the most sense and i think the success of this movement is really based on that is his ability to. really seek out the brightest minds and to know that sometimes he's not the one that has the right answers the guy that's sitting next to him now the this revolution and i know that you don't like calling it i've. been actually. you know i was very hesitant to call it a revolution until the police released a statement and the police labeled it a revolution and once the labels of the revolution at that point as a revolution while in that revolution has a symbol there one that you're wearing right now i wonder what's written on that cap is it make armenia great again. i think it's just
a way for people to visibly. signal to everyone else around them that they are in the spirit of the revolution and really nothing more than i was intending to ask you before about the armenian centric nature of this moment beach has been. really different from all the other transitions power transitions that we have observed in the post soviet space so far its lack of geo political component geopolitical competition has been really striking and some say it played a major role in ensuring that this power transition would be asked peaceful as it has been of about a single bullet shot how do you explain that why was armenia spared the foreign meddling that more often than not i kompany. a change of power in countries of strategic geographical importance well i think you're right this was
a unique attribute it was a revolution. i guess i would. say that the lack of geopolitics was a strategic move because once you remove geopolitics from the equation then you can really start to address the domestic real issues that people care about on a daily basis jill politics in this sense i mean it's no it's no secret that armine is in a very. politically precarious. environment overall so bringing that into the revolution honestly what have just complicated it and would probably lead to failure so it was a strategic decision as much as a moral and value based one that misimpression and promised earlier on that if elected he would not change yet of on a relationship with moscow or the west but what about your muslim neighbors both to
the east and to the west. and i said by john do you foresee any changes there i think as armine as foreign policies are structural and they are less about who is in power and more about the geo political nature that armenia finds itself so. with regard to our neighbors with regards to our strategic partnership with russia with regards to our working relationship with europe you will not find very much deviation from from the well as the reason i'm asking this question is because before mr passion and was voted in by parliament he suggested that he would push for recognition of the sovereignty of not going to cut off region it reaches one of armenia's most difficult long running problems and i know that he's about to visit that their region i believe on wednesday you're supposed to kompany him on that trip what is the logic also disturbing frozen conflict.
before addressing all the domestic challenges that you mentioned before i don't see you what he's doing is disturbing the logic and i think you'll notice that even during this whole revolution there really wasn't an issue regarding to go in a car about. his stance on the girl harbaugh's has been very clear. and it's going to continue along the same lines as as previous administrations have probably but the important thing here is that unlike previous administrations nicol passion is actually going to have the legitimacy to speak on behalf of the armenian people and i believe that will allow for an environment that leads to a peaceful resolution much more quickly and quite frankly would be great to see a government and other advice on that could also speak on behalf of the people because that's the only way to really come to a peaceful resolution on this conflict but misted. and i'm sure you know that. i
said by john is not going to take his visit to that region lightly there is also turkey be told that it's going to support. a very and whatever it means now there is russia which is treaty bound to intervene or support their meaning in the event of a conflict so my point is that they ask electorial potential here is pretty pretty unsettling i just wonder why involving the issue of not born a car bomb is i have to disagree with you on the on the basis on the basis of what nicole question is doing by visiting a girl in a car both is nothing but is nothing more than what every other armenian president and prime minister has done in the past there is nothing extraordinary there it's it's standard operating procedure for all armenian presidents and prime ministers in the past and i don't foresee it causing any greater headache well it's interesting you believe that because mr pression and specifically sad during his
speech to parliament this revolution that will lead to the jury recognition of the ride of car back to self-determination and we are talking here about a change of borders because now gotten formally still lies within the internationally recognized borders by john even though it has been under the control of the ethnic armenian forces for more than twenty years. recognizing i'm going to he's a major issue that would be a major game changer in the region and you know so the nicholl posho spoke about the the right for self-determination for the people of the corner carbolic again this is a standard this is not a deviation from anything in the past every armenian government has spoken about the right of self-determination for the people in the corner car both and and again i don't see anything extraordinary in in his rhetoric there really i don't let me just clarify do you think if armenia was indeed two months. on recognizing the
right of self-determination of the integrating the car about the region is it likely to do that you know laterally or is it likely to try to seek some regional and international support for that army has always and continues to maintain that are going to carve a conflict needs to be resolved within the framework of the always the mint's group and one of the principles of the always siemens group is the right for self-determination so again like i said there's really nothing there about can we have time for just one question and it may come across as lame to you but the police indulge me we've talked every speech we've discussed the recent changes in passions appearance his recent efforts to look more like a military man despite him never having taken part in any active combat and some of the observers suggested that he deliberately tries to look like the armenian hero from there is early clashes in the go on the kind of bomb. they they all know they
look like an identical twins at this point even you know with the bandage on the same on the same hand is that just a coincidence or is that also a clever use of political technology because somebody accused him of trying to appeal to that militaristic or nationalistic feeling on on the part of many armenians many armenians do feel entitled to not go in the car back so they had the idea here the suggestion here that he's trying to invoke some of that with his image i think of the observers suggest sutter are absolutely wrong i mean the reason why you has a bandage on the head or had a bandage on the hand is because it was cut by barbed wire i think more than anything the put the political technology you want to be looking for there is the contrast between his military appearance and the peaceful nature of the protests i think that's the image that most tends out. any any visual
appearance or similar to someone to middle class i mean how. you know armenian men with a beard could get passed from one to milk on your own these days so i think those observers are just wrong and informed well above can thank you very much for being with us today we have to leave it there i really hope and many of us here in russia hope that i mean you will make us both jealous and proud of albert's achievements we are looking forward to the transition good luck with their reform agenda thank you very much well and our viewers can keep this conversation going on out of social media pages as for me hope to see you again same place same time here on the part of.
the war in remembrance today marks the seventy third anniversary of victory in europe over fascism this is one of the most important dates on the russian calendar but can't be said of the europeans and americans we discussed how that conflict continues to impact what do you of the world to this day. lemme warhawks selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battle against illegal new socks credit to tell you that what we gossip and tabloid marseille's of the most important news today. octomom or has been telling you on the cool enough was to buy their product. these are the hawks that we along with our audience will walk.
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russia celebrates victory day marking a seventy three years since the end of the second world war with a fireworks display ending a day of spectacular military parades. and a sea of people swept through moscow taking part in the immortal regiment march remembering relatives who died fighting what russians call the great patriotic war plus. oh good. god. a cia veteran is thrown out of the confirmation hearing peduncle trump's pick as the new agency chief amid protests over her alleged involvement in torturing prisoners. and protesters burning u.s. flags on the streets of to.