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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  April 22, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows during these truly extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. happy friday. >> happy friday, nicole. i hope you have a great weekend. welcome to "the beat" everyone. i'm ari melber. house republican leader kevin mccarthy is a liar. he is lying about his dealings with the white house regarding the insurrection, the greatest attack on the capitol and u.s. democracy in over a century. he is lying about what his own shifting positions are for what to do about it with the power he has as a leader on this important matter. now, that's the top story based on the explosive new tapes
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rocking washington. but as uk imagine, the smoking gun tapes, first aired on tv last night, which revealed so much of this, are quickly stoking other developments and questions about whether mccarthy can hold on to his job leading trouble can party in the house. they're months out from midterms, where he could be in line to become the next speaker if they take back the house. and the headlines are roaring across washington all day today about whether kevin mccarthy is already toast. the facts show that mccarthy was so concerned about trump leading the insurrection that he thought trump should be ousted before the biden inaugural on january 20th. and he was actively discussing and exploring ways to do that. he was blasting trump's actions as unacceptable and, quote, indefensible. he was discussing if trump would try to get a criminal pardon, which shows us that in those tense first days before politics, bias, or self-interest clouded his judgment again, that in private mccarthy didn't think
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there was much to be investigated, that he already viewed donald trump's actions leading up to the sixth as clearly criminal. and yet against all that, just yesterday, mccarthy was still denying all the reporting i just mentioned as, quote, totally false and wrong. he may have been betting this would go down as another clash of journalists and sources versus a politician and that it would land in kind of a gray area of perception, especially for his voters and republicans who are so used to attacking anything coming out of the press. he clearly was not betting that someone in his inner circle had the receipts, had the smoking gun tapes, like mccarthy saying in this secret call that gop leadership was discussing in private, they thought was private at the time, that they surely never expected to come out, saying things like this just days after the insurrection. >> i've had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> so, mccarthy's very recent
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denials up and through this week are themselves the wrong. it's what he's saying about this. and he is stuck with that statement. he's not just lying to you as a news viewer or a citizen. he's also lying to every single republican in his district and around the country. he's lying to them. now, this has been quite a story, even if you think, well, i kind of knew some of this because we've shown you that in those early days in january mccarthy, a republican, also was saying donald trump was partly responsible for this, which is obviously true. now, he's walked it back. so, what's new here and important is not just the facts of it but how basically culpable, guilty, so many of these top republicans look, as it is revealed to the world and to their supporters what they really thought at this time. and that means they've put something else other than
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national security, democracy, and propriety, something else in charge. now, these tapes first broke last night on msnbc. i mentioned "the new york times" reporters. and rachel was explaining all of it. >> this is where we're going to make some news here tonight. the problem with these denials from mr. mccarthy and his office is we have obtained audio of that january 10th call mccarthy held in which he said, he's going to call trump and tell him that he must resign. >> there you have it. rachel reporting on that. the tapes and the underlying sources there are from this new book you may have heard about. "this will not pass," by "new york times" journalists. the secret calls were five days after the insurrection. they revealed top republicans say they were privately pressing trump on his responsibility. >> let me be very clear to all of you, and i am very clear to the president. he bears responsibilities for
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his words and actions. no ifs, ands, or buts. i asked him personally today does he hold responsibility for what happened, does he feel bad about what happened. he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. and we need to acknowledge that. >> this goes well beyond the lies. it shows the republican party is led by people like mr. mccarthy who privately, secretly, saw the insurrection for what it was, a terrible trump-fuelled attack on democracy. and then people who buckled and put their own political interests above what they said privately was their concern about democracy itself. under pressure, mccarthy bowing to trump and then fighting against an independent bipartisan probe of this attack. very rarely is it all so clearly exposed in public. i want to bring in nyu law professor melissa murray and editor at large bill crystal. bill, you, melissa, our viewers
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might say, well, we did know some of this. and yet, it feels significant, significant enough to potentially dislodge mr. mccarthy, which we'll get to. before we get to the political fallout, i turn to the stance of it. what does it mean that they knew it was this bad? >> well, it was this bad. it was evidently this bad even to trump supporters, even to mccarthy, had voted to overturn the election. he was one of the republicans who voted to throw out the election in pennsylvania. kevin mccarthy is not an anti-trump guy but he knew it was wrong. he'll get in trouble now for having told the truth. one additional thing, excellent setup there, he also says in the course of the conversation i think something about i don't want to -- trump should quit, but i don't want to get involved in the middle of pardoning and having pence pardon him, something like that, right? which suggests -- i don't know
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if he's concerned he would do something inappropriate. mccarthy doesn't want to be in the middle of that. but it shows that mccarthy kind of basically believes donald trump committed crimes. what do you pardon for? you pardon for criminal acts. as richard nixon was, i'm sure that was in his mind almost 50 years ago. so, that also suggests they knew the gravity of what trump done. >> it's so important when you put it that way. it is the gravity. it's a reminder that we hear about things are so polarized in america, we can't agree on common facts. part of that is not inevitable. that is the result of leaders or people who are in these positions and fail to lead because they agreed on the common facts there. and professor murray is standing by. since bill brings it up, let's go to that. there's the bit about the pardons and the 25th amendment. i have something on that for viewers. but mccarthy was among the republicans as we were just discussing who thought trump was so dangerous that he had to be
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ousted before the biden transition. the tapes show republican leaders go through a reenactment of what i remember rod rosenstein, the former acting attorney general did, when he thought, boy, we've got a criminal in the white house who was reaching for the 25th amendment. that requires a finding the president cannot do the job, and you have to get a majority of the cabinet -- almost impossible, never been done. then there's the talk of asking trump to resign. and going to this other tape, it seems a little silly given what everyone knows about trump. but here's that part. >> liz, you on the phone? >> yeah, i'm here. thanks, kevin. i guess there's a question. when we were talking about the 25th amendment resolution -- >> yeah. >> -- and you asked what happens if it gets there after he's gone. is there any chance? are you hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? >> i've had a few discussions. my gut tells me no.
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i'm seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. but what i think i'm going to do is i'm going to call him. this is what i think. we know that it'll pass the house. i think there's a chance it'll pass the senate, even when he's gone. and i think there's a lot of different random cases for that. again, the only discussion i would have with him is that i think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should resign. i mean, that would be my take, but i don't think he would take it. but i don't know. >> you rarely get this. you got these top republicans talking to each other. they're saying, i think it could pass the senate. they're saying, i think this person, donald trump, could be actually convicted in the senate, forcibly removed under law from office, potentially
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barred from ever running again, and then the next question that bill raised and for you, professor, this gets right into the law. this is a short clip, very telling, about saying, gosh, of course he's going to want a pardon because he led a criminal insurrection against the united states to overthrow the peaceful transition of power. i don't want to talk about it. take a look. >> now, i haven't had a discussion with the dems, that if he did resign, would that happen. now, this is one personal fear i have. i do not want to get into any conversation about him pardoning. >> professor? >> what to say about this? i mean, this is the most craven exercise of political sick fancy that i think we've ever seen in the history of the republic. he was against him until he was for him. and who knows at mar-a-lago when kevin mccarthy actually met with donald trump. but they were so loved up at mar-a-lago that all of these
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doubts he had, all of these fears and certainties that trump had engaged in criminal behavior to the point he would need a pardon from the ostensible new president, mike pence, had simply evaporated. and let's leave aside the fact we did actually have an impeachment and we had a trial on these charges, where a majority of the senators agreed that nothing had happened. there was nothing to see here. we have essentially broken the impeachment process in an effort to vindicate this person that apparently everyone thought was actually engaged in criminal activity on january 6th. the depths to which we have completely dismantled checks on the president and dismantled efforts to actually shore up our democracy is absolutely unfathomable. if i were a republican right now, if i were liz cheney right now, i would be actually horrified. i mean, she has been vilified by her colleagues, including kevin mccarthy, when in fact they were all on the same page at one point in time.
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this is perhaps not surprising, but it is actually shocking to see it play out in stark relief in this way. >> bill? >> it gets to the point about liz cheney, and i do think that's one reason she's been so fierce on this, in a good way in the last year. she knows. that was one of the conversations with her. she know what is they really think. she has said what they really think publicly, and she has followed the consequences of that. we can't have -- we need to find out everything about january 6th. he shouldn't be the nominee again. she couldn't support him again. very logical. and what so infuriates her, i imagine, is that she knows her colleagues knew this and still know this, of course, but it's pure cowardice at this point. and what else is it? cowardice, opportunism. there's no way to paper this over and make it anything more than that. >> yeah. i think that's so serious, bill, and professor murray, because sometimes in world history, you look at the misdeeds committed by people who, from what we can
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tell genuinely thought they were trying to do something good and really bad things came out of it. and there's responsibility for that too. the only thing worse than that across all of world history are people who are knowingly, wantonly, hypocritically evil, and they just say, that's evil. that's bad. oh, i got to go along with that. and i'm not one to make historical analogies on air, not my line of work. i'll just stick to the news. but bill, when you go along with other people's evil and you know it to be wrong, that's when some of the worse things happen in societies. and that's what we see with mccarthy. go ahead. because he -- well, one more thought. i just want to underscore what we said. this isn't the standard of me or you or t beat. his standard after watching the violence on the 10th was this was a criminal, dictatorial campaign. he wanted no part of it because
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it was bad. that's what he now supports, bill. >> he doesn't just go along but he rationalizes it. he covers it over. the january 6th insurrection, the irony going forward is that trump -- i think mccarthy will lose after the election the leadership of the house republicans or the speakership of the majority. i do think the trump supporters will not, for now -- enough of them are rebel that he will be denied that leadership. i wonder who leaked that audio, someone who wishes to succeed him. but the irony is he will end up having done all this damage to the republic and not getting the job he wants. >> yeah, they call that going full mike pence where you spend years doing that kind of thing and in the end of the day when the whole era is over, they're not just asking for your political life. they're asking for your life.
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i mean, those trump fans wanted to murder and assassinate mike pence. it can't be understated or minimized. and kevin mccarthy watched all that, said what he said on the 10th of january, and then is going along with the same thing. and that brings us to the wild politics of it, bill. in the old days -- and you were in the republican party for a long time -- they would have these meetings and the members of the house caucus would pick their leader. leader of them. they pick their leader. now it's some sort of mixed vatican mar-a-lago smoke signal system, which has got to be debasing and pathetic for anyone involved. no shade to the vatican, but it is an obscure process. and popes are different than political leaders. so, with that said, i'm reading from the reporting. you've alluded to some of this, bill. mccarthy called trump and apologized over all this. quote, he said he was placating liz cheney, that it was fake. that he was just paying her lip
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service. quote, trump isn't mad. he has other things on his mind. he accepts kevin for who he is. it's not like he really trusts him. many republicans, quote, will be watching and waiting for signals -- i don't know if they missed the word smoke or not -- but for some kind of signal from mar-a-lago that could decide mccarthy's fate. bill, does that sound right to you? have they ever picked a speaker or house leader like that before? is it pathetic? >> it is pathetic. and this gets back to the point made earlier. it's important that congress act as a check on the executive and hold the executive accountable for misdeeds and make its own decisions, also about its leadership. and we already have members of congress today saying he insulted donald trump. he shouldn't be our leader. >> final thought, melissa? >> i mean, this is tote yims at its worst. i mean, again, kevin mccarthy is supposed to be the leader or
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wants to be the leader of the house republicans, and he's basically shown that he's in the tlaul of the sharl ton that is leading his party. it's clear trump still has a stranglehold on the republican party. and that's something that i think you have to be cognizant of going into the midterms. this is a failure for sure. it is a misstep for sure. but not for donald trump. i mean, it just simply shows the lengths to which the members of his party will go to maintain their allegiance to him. >> yeah. melissa and bill, thanks to both of you. let me tell folks what's coming up. mtg grilled today. she's facing a push to kick her off the ballot. we have that story. and the republican extremism in florida and why it may cost voters and citizens there a lot of money. and by the end of the hour, a very special guest who's been fighting putin's regime for over a decade. stay with us. utin's regime for r
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get unbeatable business solutions from the most innovative company. get a great deal on this limited time price with internet and voice for just $49.99 a month for 24 months with a 2-year price guarantee. call today. we've been covering many of the different fallout points from the insurrection. another one happened to hit a key accountability moment today. and this is rare, but republican representative marjorie taylor greene is the first member of congress to be questioned and testify under oath about the insurrection. this all stems from something we've been covering, the effort to kick her off the ballot. takes a lot to kick someone off the ballot, but trying to overthrow the u.s. government can carry the day. it began with her refusing to answer whether interfering in the election would make someone a kind of in-house enemy. >> so, if someone broke the law in an effort to interfere with
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the counting of the electoral votes, that person would be an enemy of the constitution. am i right about that? >> breaking the law is unlawful. there's been over 700 people charged for what happened on january 6th. >> those people would be enemies of the constitution. you would agree with that, right? >> i don't know if it -- i don't know. >> i don't know. not exactly a clairian call of leadership about overthrowing the election. greene is testifying with this legal challenge hanging over her. georgia voters would say that she was supportive of the insurrectionists according to those who filed this and thus might not be eligible to run for office in the first place. now, that's important because uk you can see the pressure on her. this is not just telling the truth or being under oath in theory. she knows exactly what they're trying to do to boot her off as
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a transparent process. so, she denies any knowledge of the kind of violence that was coming beforehand. >> i had no knowledge of any attempt, and so that's a question that's -- i can't answer. i never meant anything for violence. all of my words never ever mean anything for violence. >> now, in fairness, this is a legal proceeding. she gets to speak. she gets to be heard. ultimately, she is not the final arbiter on whether or not anything she says and does supports violence. but unlike some people, including donald trump, she is trying to publicly say clearly that she's against violence. now, she continued throughout the hearing, though, to defend a lot of what she said and did and repeatedly dodged, which, again, if you want to be on the ballot and you want to be part of the democracy, you shouldn't have to dodge that much with questions about whether you support an act in favor of democracy.
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but she kept saying she could not remember what she was up to going into the insurrection. >> i don't remember. >> so, you're not denying it. you just say you don't recall. >> i don't recall. i'm not answering that question. i don't remember. i don't remember. i don't recall making that tweet. i don't know anything about this. i've never seen it before. >> it sounds like someone whose spoken to a lawyer because if she lies under oath about any of this, that can create new criminal liability and create a bigger problem than not being run for office. then there's the key point. in a proceeding about whether she supported the type of insurrection and violence to overthrow the election, which some say could make her ineligible to run for office, she continued to repeat the lie at the center of that effort, and she continues to claim wrongly and falsely that donald trump won the election he lost.
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>> your wish was that congress not certify joe biden as the winner of the 2020 election? >> no. that's not accurate. >> you believed that joe biden had lost the election to mr. trump, right? >> well, yes. we saw tremendous amount of voter fraud -- >> that is false, whether it is her genuine belief or not is a trickier question. but the assertion that voter fraud somehow changed the course of the election is been debunked by independent fact checkers, the courts, and if you're counting, attorney general bill barr himself, a member of the trump administration. then there was the moment greene claimed she originally thought those rioters -- remember with the red hats and the trump flags who were summoned by donald trump in a tweet, who were at a
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rally for donald trump. she claims she thought maybe they were part of some other groups. >> i heard a gunshot. we all heard it. and we were so confused. we thought antifa was breaking in or blm because of -- those were the riots that had gone on and on all throughout 2020. >> there you have it. also telling because that's false. we know who was at the capitol. what she's saying is trying to besmirch or defame others who weren't even there. there's only two ways to stop this particular individual. one is to kick her off the ballot, and as i've reported, the path for that is very, very tough. the other is to beat her at the box. marcus flowers is trying to do that. and he joins me when we're back in 60 seconds. e when we're back in 60 seconds. ro beach, florida. my wife and i have three children. ruthann and i like to hike. we eat healthy. we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be.
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my wife introduced me to prevagen and so i said "yeah, i'll try it out." i noticed that i felt sharper, i felt like i was able to respond to things quicker. and i thought, yeah, it works for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. we're joined now by democratic candidate running
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against congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, marcus flowers. welcome to "the beat." >> thanks for having me, ari. >> what do you think we learned from her in today's testimony? >> well, ari, i didn't watch too much of that. i was busy talking to georgia voters. but what i did see was that marjorie taylor greene can't seem to remember anything that led up to and happened on january 6th. well, i remember, and let me remind you, what happened was an attack on the citadel of our democracy, our capitol. domestic terrorists stormed our capitol in order to stop a democratic election. that's what happened. that's what prompted me to resign my post as a government official on january 7th, to run against marjorie taylor greene because i saw the danger this country was in. that's what happened. >> yeah. and i appreciate your point.
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we were just talking earlier in the show in a different context about how people looked at what happened, what they did about it, what kind of leadership people want, which is up to the voters. i did want to play another moment from the hearing, where she is sort of pressed on the rhetoric here because, you know, for years we were told don't take this or that politician literally. but people did. that's the whole point. that's what leadership can be about. people know 1776 was an armed revolution. it's not a reference to debate. but take a look at this exchange. >> this is our 1776 moment. >> i was talking about the courage to object. >> you've never heard anybody say, use the term 1776, as a code word for violence to occur on january 6, 2021? >> no, absolutely not. >> do you think she's lying to cover up her role in fomenting
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violence? >> well, you know, perjury -- i mean, marjorie taylor greene is definitely lying. she knows. and she's seeing right now that her words have consequences. i learned this at a very young age as a young soldier when i swore an oath to defend the constitution of the united states when i joined the army at 18. all that aside, that's what got me into this race. but i'm talking to georgians every day. i'm out on doors talking to voters. and to a person, they are embarrassed by marjorie taylor greene. what we really have here right now is a void. we don't have a servant leader right now. marjorie taylor greene can't even be bothered to have an office in the district. i have an office. i get out and talk to voters. i don't always know if i'm talking to a democrat, independent, or republican, but to a person, they are all embarrassed. these are all great people in northwest georgia and they want a leader who's going to get things done for our communities. they want someone to represent.
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>> let me jump in because you know i'm juggling different segments. i feel you on that. the other thing i did want to get to is there is a closer question about the awesome and rare power of kicking someone off the ballot. do you support this effort to kick her off the ballot? what do you say to critics who argue, shouldn't you be able to beat her and win the voters over rather than this effort by voters who would prevent her from being able to run? >> you know, ari, the voters who brought this challenge to marjorie taylor greene being on the ballot have every right to do so. i support their right to do that. however, i can only control what i can control. and that's getting out, getting on the doors, talking to the voters plus letting people know that i'm here, i will be a servant leader. i will have offices in the district. there will be constituent services when i'm elected to
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congress. marjorie taylor greene can't be bothered to do that because she's running around the country with the likes of matt gaetz. what we are focused on in northwest georgia is education, housing issues, homelessness. our veterans are homeless. there are so many things that need to be worked on right now, and marjorie taylor greene is not doing it. we have an absentee voice in congress. the constitution says i should have a representative. i don't have that right now. no one is northwest georgia does. that's what i'm focused on right now. >> i hear you. and when you run against someone this polarizing, you're balancing sort of whatever that show is and that wildness with of course you're also emphasizing your campaign and your pitch to the voters. we get that. marcus flowers, thanks for coming on "the beat." >> one last thing before i go, ari, i would like to say, i can't do this alone, people. so, please go to the
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www.marcusforgeorgia and bring decency and integrity and decorum back to congress. >> marcus, i feel like i'm inside one of those commercials. you say it clearly, got to get your plug in there. we understand it. thank you, sir. >> thanks, ari. >> appreciate it. have a great weekend. coming up, republican extremism in the classroom, and florida taxpayers may have to pay more because of desantis. and by the end of the hour and the end of this long week, we have something special. a punk rocker and long-time putin foe. our special guest live tonight. . our special guest live tonight smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette
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florida's republican governor is punishing one of the state's largest employers because of its own free speech
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as well as its support for basic civil rights protections and standing up for lgbtq citizens. and now governor ron desantis paying for it with a tax hike on his own constituents. the bill strips disney from tax status in florida because of its opposition to the, quote, don't say gay law. ultimately a $1 billion additional bill. desantis has been using children as a set of political props. he's also eliminated teaching what he says are racial concepts. the larger point is an attack on free speech and free market principles. so, clearly not very conservative or libertarian. and he apparently hopes all of this will put him first in line to be the republican nominee for president. >> we're here today because we
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believe in education, not indoctrination. those standards do not allow pernicious ideologies like critical race theory to be taught in our k-12 schools. >> this is a little bit like trying to patrol elementary schools from teaching the pre-med curriculum in college. critical race theory is a graduate level college course. whether it's ever been mentioned somewhere in an individual school is virtually impossible to fact check. but it is not part of the curriculum. it hasn't stopped desantis from still trying to use this as a wedge issue, including 54 math books including, quote, prohibited topics. officials have finally coughed up examples. one was a reference that would tell students, uh-oh, you should
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empathize with classmates. another one, that is objected to by this desantis-type censorship is a reference to students' social and emotional learning. yes, they are being very careful that we don't discuss learning in school. that's what you need to know about the law signed today. we're going to fit in a break. coming up tonight, we have a russian artist who has famously and courageously stood up to vladimir putin's regime. that's next. vladimir putin's regime. that's next. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. to be a thriver with metastatic breast cancer means... asking for what we want. and need. and we need more time. so, we want kisqali. women are living longer than ever before with kisqali...
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putin's war in ukraine grinds on. this is day 57.
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soldiers there continue gruesome attacks against ukrainian civilians on children. cities levelled. reports of russian soldiers brutally raping women there. its enormous cost. and it's not only to the ukrainian people but also to many in russia who are not necessarily in way supportive of putin's aggression, who must deal with these global sanctions. and despite facing internal oppression at home, prison, or worse, we are seeing these reports of people bravely protesting the war inside russia. indeed, a rough count is there have been over 15,000 arrests. there may be many, many more people who oppose the war who are not out in public risking everything. and there's the television employee who interrupted that live broadcast to protest what she called putin's war of propaganda. putin is running a country where holding even a blank piece of paper, which is seen as a symbol of war protest right now, can
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get you arrested. it is beyond orr well yan. it's a risk that people have taken. for years though to stand up and waern about putin's autocratic regime, even before things got as visibly bad abroad as they have. one group that's been at the forefront of this, and brings us to something special tonight, is a punk performance. they stage these guerilla gigs throughout russia proposing putin, antiputin and for the russian people like universal rights, including lgbtq rights. the group gained for notice that led to arrests and prison time. there was a song called "make america great again" but it mocked donald trump and this putin/trump axes in a goof ball but scary dystopian universe.
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this is a group with brave member who is have stood up to putin in all sorts of ways, both protests physical and cultural, while sharing their work and music. >> the women of pussy riot spent hours waiting for hours for the judge to start reading the verdict. >> the young women have become poster girls for power. >> german doctors tonight say a putin critic and the most prominent male member of the protest group pussy riot was most likely poisoned. >> such a place as a war and government wants to show it. >> they can try so silence one of us, but not every one of us. >> for a special edition of fallback on the beat, i'm joined by a founding member of that russian protest punk band, pussy riot.
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she served prison time for her work speaking out against putin. back with us is bill crystal. welcome to you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. nadia, starting with you, straightforwardly, why was it important for you to stand up for what you view as this type of repression in the past and were you trying to warn the world about putin? >> any type of concentration of power brings a lot of negative consequences. what we see today is the result of complacency. a lot of people inside and outside russia. for example, in 2014 it was obvious that putin started war in ukraine and we did ask the global community to take it more seriously. and part of what is happening today is result of the global community treating it too lightly.
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so, basically when the bar is concentrated in the hands of just one person, it's becoming incredibly dangerous because, you know, at some point they might just lose their mind and invade neighboring country, which is what just happened. >> what do you see here as important in culture as putin tries to decimate not only the ukrainian people but their culture and the story of the russian people is complicated. >> they paid a real price to be dissidents. when i came to washington first, one of the reasons i got into politics is i admired others and the '70s and '80s and we could
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do our bid here to help. i hope we're doing as much as we can but i'm curious, are we doing as much as we can to get information into russia? do they have access to true information or has putin succeeded in turning it down. a couple people in the private sector to make runs of the censorship of the internet. we need to get the truth, to help get the truth to the russian people. >> how about that, the free flow of information in russia as putin has gone after social media, et cetera? >> you got to use vpn to access facebook, instagram, twitter. still have telegram. this whole cover the war they blocked territory of russia and creating mirrors sitting here in media outlet we created in 2014
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and became one of the most important independent voices in modern russia. we grew the whole generation of like young russians who stand against the regime. the reason we understand as well and why they blocked us. a lot of journalists had to flee to save their lives and family and we still work and until we -- if you breathe, we're going to deliver real news to russia's people. >> yeah, i wanted to ask you about a really tricky debate that is really raging in the west because the sanctions are designed to go after putin and the russian government. they effect the russian people. there is long running sanctions and there are people going further. this is from a more consecutive in the united states but people don't always admit this but it happens in wars. we know that. and it's very concerning but
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somebody says i'm reading here from a "wall street journal" letter calling for the boycott of russian artists, dancers, musicians, they should go back to russia hanging their heads. we want to make it uncomfortable for the people to know the rogue state won't be accepted by the west in any way. what is your reaction to people who confuse or link the diverse entire russian population or its cultural offerings with this authoritarian leader? i wanted to give you here on the american airwaves a chance to respond. >> they should be selective. if a person supported continuously kremlin putin in ukraine. there are a lot of russians and they are oppressed and came
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their lives and every day to oppose this lack of freedom that we have and i think you should help those russians. if you turn against them, well, some of them might go back to russia and actually join putin because it's going to be the only way for them if they're going to be rejected by the world. if your ultimate goal is to fight putin, i think you should show support to people who do not support him. >> bill, i've got 40 seconds. there is nothing newiment in am bigotry. war super charges it. your thoughts? >> i very much agree. i think we need to support peace and russians and the russian people and make clear, i wrote a piece on this. this is putin's war. unfortunately, he controls russia and a lot of people are going along with it and he has a lot of temporary support. this is putin's war and putin is
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what has to be dealt with. we have no quarrel with the russian people. we want russia to be a free and successful country. >> yeah, this is kind of a wartime fall back and a segment we look at culture but culture is how we learn about these issues including these major problems with a lot of risk and suffering out there. i want to thank nadya for joining us for your work and bill crystal, thanks to both of you. >> thank you for having us. >> absolutely. appreciate it. we will be right back. absolelu. appreciate it. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪simply irresistible♪ applebee's irresist-a-bowls are back. now starting at $8.99. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ♪ it's the most wonderful time of the year ♪ now starting at $8.99. it's spring! claritin provides non-drowsy symptom relief from over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens, day after day. feel the clarity— and make today the most wonderful time of the year.
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before we head into the week
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end, nbc inspiring america. lester, savannah and hoda hosting a series focussing on people that try to support their communities. thoughts where we're headed as a society and communities around the country saturday may 7th on msnbc, cnbc plus and will air the next day on telemundo and our streaming platforms. you can find it and we recommend it. that's inspiring america from our nbc partners. that does it for us. have a great weekend. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" are the sick republican party led by trump puppet kevin mccarthy. that twist comes in the form of audio recordings confirming how kevin really felt about trump in the days after the january 6th insurrection. just yesterday

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