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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  April 8, 2022 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people are taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ e*trade now from morgan stanley. hi, everyone with. 4:00 in new york. the russian ivasion of ukraine. devastating missile strike in the eastern of ukraine that was a gathering point for thousands of refugees hoping to get to safer areas of ukraine west ahead of what is expected to be a major and brutal russian
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offensive. we have to warn you the images you are about to see are graphic. at least 50 people have been killed in this strike alone. including five children and more than 100 injured. up to 4,000 people were in the station at the time of the missile strike. images from the aftermath of the attack show the remnants of the missile that hit the station. on the side, the word children is painted. it was indeed a russian missile that hit the strike and came from inside ukraine. sky news was on the scene earlier today. >> you see some of the windows have been broken. there are schrapnel holes in the walls. there would have been thousands of people at the station. when we were here, we saw hundreds of people here. benches standing with bags waiting for the trainings to
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come. you know, competitive to get on the trains. there are some many people trying to get out. there are not enough seats for the people. here you can see again people sitting here would have been waiting and unaware of what was about to happen. again, the same thing. possessions left. i can see fruit, apples, water. stuff for a long journey. it is a long journey to lviv. it's also blood. there's a small crater here you can see. probably where the explosives hit. punched a small hole in the platform. again, some broken windows as well. must have been terrifying for the people who were here. it is now deserted. we spoke to the station manager.
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those people who were able left quickly. it is absolutely deserted now. >> russian government has denied striking that train station, but provided no evidence to support their claims. the washington post reports this. within minutes of the missile attack that killed dozens of ukrainian civilians, pro-russian channels said the strike was aimed a fighters or hardware. posts were swiftly deleted when civilian tolls became apparent. president zelenskyy said if this is not punished, it will not stop. he sat for an interview with "60 minutes" laying out for what is happening in the war. >> we are defending the right to live. i never thought this right was so costly.
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these are human values so russia doesn't choose what we should do. that right was given to me by god and my parents. >> what do you see in bucha? >> death. just death. >> it is in the back drop of the conflict that president zelenskyy describes in the terms that the west is now moving to shore up ukraine's defenses. nato member slovakia will send an air defense system to ukraine. the system that one u.s. official tells nbc news could help ukraine protect against attacks like the one that took place today. in the eu today, it approved a fifth round of sanctions. the sanctions were harder to agree on than previous rounds. important exceptions that suggested the eu was approaching
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the threshold after the air strike at the train station. joining us now is ali velshi live in lviv. when i read the stories to someone standing there, someone who is talking daily to people who are personally affected, the train attack station is offensive. if you value life, why isn't it there already? tell me the view. >> reporter: in every eastern european city i've been in, i've been in the train station. in cities shutdown or the services not available, they are available at the train station. food and red cross and unicef
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and translators and medical care. imagine that. the sky news reporter describing it was a congregation place. you realize that these are not scheduled trains. they are what is called special trains. the government said try to get out now before the russian offensive. people go to the train station hoping to get out. within minutes, there were these claims of responsibility by the russians and then there weren't. the russians came up with false information. a false flag operation that the ukrainians did it to bolster support and create a greater flow of support. the other one is an accidental missile that was supposed to go to the line of control which is close to the train station to target russians. it is a russian built missile. they do not buy the denial by
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the russians. they are saying they might have tried to target the rail hub itself. the minute they found out they hit civilians, the claims for responsibility have stopped. the bottom line here, nicolle, people are saying we've grieve later. this is going to take a lot of time to grieve and resolve. every time this happens, it strengthens the resolve of the ukrainians to win this battle. they do hope that as the world sees these things, if they get past the russian false statements and get past that, they will get the help. the one thing that stands out that zelenskyy said to the u.n. this week, this will end. you will do the right thing. it may be too late. how many more have to die to your point before the world does everything they need to do. >> ali, because of your reporting, i think the world saw
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bucha and you had a sense of what was going on in the country. i think what i understand now after covering the new normal is it didn't just happen in bucha. it is the playbook playing across the country. is the targeting of civilians a known strategy? the russian military over generations and we're just at the beginning of understanding what that looks like. let me show you the sound from the acting mayor about what his city is like right now. now in the sixth week of war. >> translator: i'm afraid there is no possibility to strike any people alive because the bombardment hit the building and it is possible no one is alive.
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and in terms of the infrastructure and the power lines are down and water and gas pipelines are destroyed. even sewage pipelines are destroyed. effectively the city was turned into the pre-historic conditions and it is uninhabitable at the moment. >> reducing buildings to dust and knowing no one alive under the rubble is the tactic we have seen in this country after 9/11. buildings reduced to dust. no one surviving under the rubble. >> reporter: yup. >> what is the point of the devastation of the ukrainian towns? >> reporter: it is not con quest. it is something bigger than that. it is punishment. it is the russian narrative these people are not a country or culture of their own and they don't have identity. that is the prelude and always is the prelude in every war we have seen to being able to
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annihilate people. this is why zelenskyy thinks this is genocide. that is a high bar to prove. we are seeing war crimes. the idea they will try to crush the will of the ukrainian people. every time it happens, nobody's will is crushed. it is having the opposite effect. they are frustrated. ukrainians are frustrated. you are seeing the same stuff we are seeing. you said in the opening that fatigue setting in during the eu. it is six weeks. everybody says this war is going on for a long time. people want low gas prices and supply chains back. this is where it is difficult for the ukrainians. they are angry and motivated by the day. they are worried the rest of the world will get bored. >> it is uncomfortable to read that to you standing in the country and facing the unthinkable. six weeks ago, people were
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living lives that i enjoy now. worried about kids homework and juggling lives of work and whatnot. they were living that life, too, until six weeks ago. i wonder what sort of strategy is. zelenskyy is strategic in speaking to the soft under belly of patience and attention deficit in the west. what is the sustaining of interest and willingness to make the little sacrifice to support their efforts? >> reporter: i think the strategy that zelenskyy and other government officials and members of parliament with whom i'm speaking is in the end we know where this is going. you will not see fewer images. mariupol will be worse than all of it. we will see images we will not take. i talked to an mp on monday.
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he said you won't have enough tears to see the images. zelenskyy says you will see it. it is 2022. they will see it. everybody will do the right thing and it will be and we will say on that date when everybody does the right thing and cut off the flow of gas and oil from russia and when they stop india from trading in russian oil. when they finally put pressure on china to stop backstopping russia. everybody will say if we did it a month year, not as many people would have died. russia is a bigger country to script soldiers and chechnya and other places. ukraine is saying russia has a backstop. they have people on their side on this one. we need folks on our side to lean in to being on our side. otherwise, you will keep
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watching images like this. >> i know you are anchoring from there. rachel will be back next week. you are anchoring your program from there tomorrow. tell me what's next? tell me how the five weeks have changed you. >> reporter: it changed me a lot. there really are two things i take away. i didn't know ukraine and the ukrainian people intimately. i grew up in canada. the biggest ex-pat in the world outside of ukraine. i didn't know people who lived here. i am so deeply inspired by the way they talk about this. on the other hand, nicolle, i'm worried for not looking at this clearly from the world's perspective. no excuse to get bored. it is hard to look at the images. we can't be numb to them. i believe the ukrainians who
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will prevail. i'm worried the world can help them faster and not necessarily there yet. >> i'll put you on the spot on live tv. you made me cry. when you get back, come sit here and help me navigate a couple of days of this. you know more than all of us combined. you have been there and done a service to this network and all of viewers. thank you for your coverage from there. >> reporter: it will be my honor to do that. great to see you in real life again. >> stay safe, my friend. joining us is the secretary and senior fellow for the council on foreign relations. evelyn, take me inside how you see this moment. i think ali gave us a good window of how zelenskyy sees it and how he is seeking to sustain
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the world's interest and country's fighting spirit. tell me what is going on on the other side? >> nicolle, thank you for having me and nice words you said. i have been watching ali and including in hungary. it is important to send people out there and there's nothing like the firsthand account. look, president zelenskyy and the people who have been following this crisis even years ago and decades ago in the sense this is vladimir putin's campaign to assert control over ukraine and eliminate democrcy and regain his place for russia and himself in history. we understand and we understood from the beginning this could get worse. it can always get worse because
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of his objective. i think on the other side, what you see now and i'm very interested to see this in our government in particular. a real understanding that vladimir putin is not going to stop unless he is militarily defeated. that's what i feel coming out of my former colleagues. they are not saying it, but that's what i understand and thaws how i feel. he must be defeated or this will continue. >> i hear some of that in the responses you hear from former ukrainian ambassador bill taylor. i say how does this end. he says that ukraine wins. i want to ask you -- it has been pointed out by officials that we cover russian disinformation in a shallow manner. we follow the chain of command from something putin says and the echo chambers on the far right of politics here.
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it incorporates something more. vladimir putin did not say they were going to war. he said they were going on a special operation. what does it look like for vladimir putin when you lied your way in? how do you think that plays into the wiggle room for any negotiations or any exit strategy for russia? >> i mean, i think, nicolle, if you wanted to exit now or soon, he could exit and keep his lie more or less in check. as time goes on and more russians die and don't return home or return home wounded or body bags, it will be harder for the russian people to continue to keep the lie up and keep the fiction up. i could be wrong, of course. i have not lived in russia. i don't know the russian psyche.
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they understood what was happening in afghanistan. it didn't take ten years for them to realize they didn't want their sons and husbands dying there. i think the russian people will figure out what is happening as the war drags on. we are at a dangerous situation right now because he does control the narrative among most of the russian population. they have bought into the idea this is a nationalist move that russia has to take to make sure that there isn't some nazi facist regime in russia. >> it is a lie that seemingly, max boot, held up. the last seven days, the world has been confronted with its first images of the atrocities of the war crimes of the
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genocide as president zelenskyy has described it playing out in bucha. there are reports and interviews all a day long of what cities and what has happened in places where we don't yet have journalists documenting it. what is your sense of this moment and where we're heading next? >> i think what you are seeing exposed now, nicolle, is two things. one is the level of russian ineptitude and evil. they tried to capture kyiv quickly. they failed. they suffered a devastating defeat in the north of ukraine in the last several weeks. they lost probably at least 15,000 soldiers. ukrainians say 18,000. devastating losses. they lost more in a month and all of the 1980s. the russians are responding by
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killing ukrainian civilians because they are too incompetent to defeat the military. they are taking wrath out on the civilians. it is sickening to see the carpet bombing on mariupol and attack on the train station and the hideous war crimes in bucha and other places. it is not just targeted execution, but rape and looting. everything is committed by the russians. it is not working. this is the russian strategy. break the will of the ukrainians. we see it is not working. this is why these kinds of atrocities in war time back fire. donald trump used to talk about bomb the living daylights outs of them. torture. kill. this is the way you win war. no it is not the way you win war. it leads to more resistance. the ukrainians are 100% united against the evil visited upon
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them by vladimir putin. >> it is amazing. i want to come back toing to something that happened this week. 63 or 64 house republicans voted against the non binding resolution to commitment to nato. something quite obviously the byproduct of four years of a president trump and six years of the republican party morphing into something into trump-ism. what do you make not just of what it says about them, but how that emboldens vladimir putin at this dangerous hour with the war? >> i think any division in the west or support for putin emboldens putin. he is losing on the battle field in ukraine. he thinks he can still win a political victory. there is evidence that he is making gains.
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you see viktor orban getting reelected. you see marine le pen making a campaign in the france elections. and you see tucker carlson on fox news night after night repeating the bogus propaganda. you see the vote that you just said with all of the house republicans refusing to back even a very vague and general resolution of support for nato. yes. it is bad news for the out future of the republican party. it will provide evidence for him to divide the west.
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that the west will not stay resolute and in the face of the russian aggression. >> it's horrific. even the feedback loop of how the republican posture is replayed back to the russian population is part of the war propaganda doesn't shame them is most haunting of all. evelyn and max, it is a privilege. thank you for starting off our coverage today. when we come back, the contradictions of being and talking to and about mitch mcconnell. try to understand how he can call the ex-president's actions nothing short but a dereliction of duty, but happily and smoothly get on board for trump 2024. axios' jonathan swan tried to untwist that giant knot. he will join us next to explain. do democrats need to make
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more noise? one took to the floor for the instances of hip hipocracy. it was an historic day at the white house today. ketanji brown jackson peeking speaking about what it took to get to that event today. we will play you some of what she had to say. "deadline white house" will return after a quick break. don't go anywhere. will return after a quick break don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things.
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>> i'm comfortable with the way i have conducted my political career and i'd be happy to respond to any specificity you want to apply to the term? >> moral red line. >> moral red line. i'm very comfortable with my moral red line. >> great question. mitch mcconnell and topic of moral red lines. top of mind when mitch mcconnell condemned trump in the bloody aftermath of the january 6th insurrection calling trump's actions disgraceful dereliction of duty. insisting that trump was morally responsible for provoking the events of that day. only to turn around two weeks later when committed on to supporting trump as the nominee if he runs in 2024 or ever.
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jonathan swan asked him about it. >> as a republican leader of the senate, it should not be a front page headline that i'll support the republican nominee for president. >> after you said that about him, i think it is a starting thing. >> i have to support the nominee of my party. that will mean whoever the nominee is has gone out and earned the nomination. >> okay. donald trump earned it last time. i'm trying to understand what you say matters. very important voice in this country and leader of your party. you hold two different positions. let me finish. >> not at all. i stand by everything i said on january 6th and february 13th. >> i understand that. i want to understand which i have not heard you address. >> i don't get to pick the republican nominee for president. they are elected by the republican voters all over the country.
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>> i fully understand that. take liz cheney. i want to understand this. i want to understand how you think about this. liz cheney said she doesn't want trump anywhere near the white house and work to not make that happen. she thinks there are some things more important than party loyalty. >> well, maybe you should talk to liz cheney. >> it is not a got ya'. i am trying to understand if there say threshold for you. >> i say many things i'm sure people don't understand. >> joining us is jonathan swan and tim miller. he spent as much time as i have watching that and rewatching that. i think i want to know from your view, jonathan. what did it reveal to you? >> i wanted to ask him that
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question for more than a year now. i found it quite jarring last year because i watched and i'm sure you both did, too, his speech on january 6th and then february 13th. mitch mcconnell is a controlled man. almost to a fault. on those two occasions, he spoke, you could see the emotion. you could see the outrage. he spoke with -- it was morally unambiguous. he said trump was responsible for cements the insurrection. he listed the bill of particulars. the people chanting hang mike pence. he said trump was practically and morally responsible. i saw it might have been 12 days or two weeks, max, after the
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second speech. he went on fox news and was asked if he would support trump if he was the nominee in 2024. he said yes. i said okay. first, that was stunning to me because at the same time we were seeing liz cheney. cheney and mitch mcconnell view january 6th the same way. they thought it was terrorism. they were as appalled by it and they blamed donald trump equally for it. they both, i believe, would like donald trump to disappear from national politics. they reached separate conclusions. her conclusion was i'm going to commit my career to taking on donald trump even if it costs me my seat. i don't want him near the oval office. mitch mcconnell's conclusion was loyalty to the republican party. if donald trump is the nominee,
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i will support him regardless of the fact i said he is responsible for a violent insurrection. >> tim, i want to know what you think. >> i want to, if you don't mind, step back and explain mitch mcconnell. throughout all of history, anybody in politics has to balance their values and moral believes with what they believe is expedient. at times people do what is expedient and morally correct. look at harry reid. when he lied about mitt romney's tax returns, he wasn't thinking about that. mitch mcconnell is a category difference from all those other po
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politicians. mitch mcconnell does not try to balance the moral values that he may or may not have with what is politically expedient. so, i would offer that what he said is actually not a contradiction. on february 13th, what he thought was politically expedient for his party was to signal swing voters and republicans with a conscious that this party is not all thrown in with the domestic terrorists and people responsible for the deaths at the capitol. two weeks later, when the politics changed, what he was doing was signaling to maga voters that they shouldn't break up the party. he will do whatever the maga voters want him to do. for mitch mcconnell, his actions were consistent. his framework is whatever i need to do to advance my party's power is the right thing. why that interview is so
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important is mitch is winning that argument in right now. republican voters live in the bubble and in the post-trump era, they don't consider the morals. owning the libs is the highest purpose. by asking that question, jonathan removed him from the bubble and moral framework in which he had to think about this and answer a question. do ihave any morals that supersede politics? he honestly couldn't understand jonathan's question. he was befuddled. what is politically right is moral. he saw the deaths at the capitol and still said i don't care. >> i am -- i'm old enough to watch mitch mcconnell during the bush years. i believe the first answer is how he actually feels.
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it is the category of what jonathan swan described. he is so controlled. if he regrets anything, he regrets letting out what he said at the end of the second impeachment. mitch mcconnell hates to move. he hates to move from majority to minority offices. mitch mcconnell loves getting people on the supreme court. i think that all of that discipline and i thought one of the most interesting things he said to you, jonathan, my wife likes me. my neighbors think i'm nice. mitch mcconnell's wife elaine chou are survivors. i guess my question is which do you think is true? horror that mitch mcconnell expressed about 1/6 or the zen approach to reelecting trump? >> i would be curious to know and i don't have another
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follow-up question unfortunately. >> you'll get one. >> really? okay. that's news to me. i get another interview with him? okay. i'm curious whether he would say what bill barr says. trump is terrible and appalling. everything he does after the election was insane and he hopes to god that trump is not the nominee in 2024. however, you would say to bill barr if he is the nominee, would you vote for him? bill barr says yes because he believes the left is the great threat he cares about everything in the country than trump or whoever the republican nominee is. i don't know that mcconnell believes that. barr is more of an ideologue than mcconnell. barr has policies that he cares
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about more than mcconnell. mcconnell is a political animal who cares about winning. i read his book. he is a big baseball fan. he is very competitive. he is animated by the game of politics. so i think it is interesting to ask that question to mcconnell. i don't think he would view the left taking over in such apocalyptic terms which -- look, i don't have reason to doubt the sincerity on that day. i think he was genuinely outraged. his wife resigned. i think there was a two-week period max when he and a few others in various positions thought finally we're done with this guy and we can cut him out of the party. that window closed and everyone shut their mouths and mcconnell
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went to mar-a-lago and it was back to normal and the nrc was giving trump whatever it was the freedom award or whatever. it was so quick. it didn't take a month. so, yeah. >> the door didn't close. they closed it. the republicans had the opportunity to purge trump from the party and they blinked. they balked. >> i think they realized that's not where the voters were and i think the door was closed for them. >> i think kevin mccarthy closed it. >> to jonathan's point. this brings synergy to my theory, nicolle, about how he was genuine. on january 6th and february 13th, mitch mcconnell and his team thought that they could
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achieve both objectives. they thought they could get rid of trump which they want to do and they thought trump by making his mistakes in january gave them the opportunity to do so. so, while he might have been genuine, he was being politically expedient. what he realized quickly in the coming weeks to jonathan's point, the voters felt differently. so that is why he begins to change his tune. he puts the game above all else. winning the game above all else. that explains why he could have seemed genuine on february 13th. he thought that was best for the team for a minute. he was shaken up real quick quick. >> i have to say trump did not seem genuine. he incited a riot.
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stick around. are democrats outraged on the moral front over mitch mcconnell? one said there is a loudness gap and democrats have to get louder. we'll talk about that next. xt
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solidarity with the insurrectionists. this comes from a guy who before the russian invasion suggested that maybe it would be wise for zelenskyy to make a few concessions about ukraine and their willingness to join nato. this comes from the guy who just about a month ago voted against ukraine aid. he is saying it's going too slow. he voted no. he voted no on ukraine aid and now he has the gall to say it's going too slow. and this final insult is that until secretary austin resigns? that's not a serious request. people used to come to me during the trump administration. do you think trump should resign? of course, i think all of the people i disagree with should be replaced with people i love. they should all resign. that's not how the world works. that is not a reasonable request
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from the united states senator. until the secretary of defense quits his job, i'll block all of the nominees? coming from a person who exonerated trump for extorting zelenskyy for withholding the lethal aid. so spare me the new solidarity with the ukrainians and with the free world because this man's record is exactly the opposite. >> difficult truths there. hand delivered by senator brian schatz. being politely and coming from josh hawley. the clip has been viewed on twitter 4 million times in 18 hours. this is the point of the conversation. democrats need to get louder to
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signal how outrageous and extreme republicans have become. we're back with jonathan and tim. this is the thing i wanted to ask you. on national security matters, the republican party is the largest autocratic leaning body in the western world. it is a party that does not accept the free and fair election results. it is a party that cannot get behind the independent commission over a deadly attack on the u.s. capitol. i wonder how mitch mcconnell who was never wobbly during the eight bush years of the war on terror, there wasn't a counterterror policy he did not embrace and how he pushed through the u.s. senate and when the threat is within his own party, what he is he, jonathan? blind? numb? impotent?
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tell me. >> i think that paints with too broad a brush. >> really? >> yeah. >> sharpen it for me. what is the republican party? they go on fox news. no one boycotts tucker carlson. where are they on democracy? >> oh, sorry. i thought you were talking about russia and ukraine. in the senate on russia and ukraine, they are pretty out liars don't exist. they exist in the house and primary trail. they are at this moment supporting joe biden saying he has to do more. on russia and ukraine, they have been solid and hawkish. you can disagree with that as a matter of policy. i think some of the rhetoric is unrealistic. they talk about winning which i think sounds very good. george w. bush has the
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triumphant feel. zelenskyy has come out and said he doesn't want that be part of nato. i find it rich hearing democrats complain about that because biden green lit nord-stream 2. i interviewed zelenskyy twice last year. you know how galling they find it to be lectured by the u.s.? you have to clean up your corruption. biden people told them you have to modernize your military. they were hanging out there and pleading. now i hear this stuff. i find it -- it gets under my skin a little bit. this was all foreseeable. ukrainians were promised nato membership in 2008. it was an inside joke in america. now we are seeing the consequences of it. as for the democracy question, we can talk about that forever.
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i misunderstood your question. sorry. >> i'll say two things. let's put forever on the date whenever your free. we will do the democracy. mitch mcconnell understands the stakes. mitch mcconnell sees the world y is a one-woman band trying to save it, he's willfully helping the republicans destroy it. and i take all your points and i like listening to you talk when someone et cetera under your skin. jonathan swan, tim miller, thank you so much for spending time with us today. switching gears, the manhattan d.a. wants everyone to know that the criminal investigation into former president donald trump and his business practices is very much alive. that story and another legal development brewing for trump when we come back. dan goldman is our guest. p when we come bk.ac dan goldman is our guest
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bragg, who took over from cy vance in january, has been under a whole lot of pressure to be more transparent about the investigation into trump and the trump org. he's pledged to leave no stone unturned and says he will address the public again about the investigation. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst dan goldman, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york and former majority counsel during trump's first impeachment trial. what's going on? >> well, i think alvin bragg had to deal with a very unusual situation, which is a career prosecutor publicly resigning or two career prosecutors publicly resigning because they disagreed with a charging decision. ordinarily, prosecutors only resign or withdraw from cases when they believe that something unethical or illegal is happening. but here, it was related to an ongoing investigation, and so d.a. bragg could not really talk in any substantive way and respond to the letter that came
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out. i think what he has decided to do here is that the public interest in understanding what's going on is greater than the interest of hits investigation to keep everything confidential. he didn't reveal anything substantive, but he, i think, very importantly, sent the message that the investigation is indeed ongoing, and it is indeed looking at new evidence in an effort to shore up what you and i have spoken about, nicole, is a very difficult criminal case. >> but it's very hard to accept that this is as robust as whatever the other two prosecutors were doing, because they left. i mean, it does not seem to smell right. >> well, it's hard to know if you're not in there. there's some aspect -- >> they walked out because great new evidence came that they didn't want to be a part of and add it to their case? come on. >> no.
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i think they felt, what i read from the letter is they felt like there was sufficient evidence to move forward and waiting for new evidence was speculative and would further delay things, and justice required them to move quickly. i don't know that they would dispute that there were other new avenues. they didn't think those avenues would be fruitful. but alvin bragg does and it's very hard for us to know, because we're not on the inside. and i have no idea. i don't know who's right or who's wrong, but you know, i do think that we all have to give a new district attorney a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. cy vance had this case for three years, and he didn't charge it before he left. it's a lot to ask of a new district attorney to come in and decide to charge the former president of the united states within a month of him ascending to the position. >> all right, we'll keep watching. thanks for your help. dan goldman, understanding it all. when we come back, judge
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ketanji brown jackson in her own words today speaking at the white house celebration of her confirmation and elevation to the u.s. supreme court. that's next. levation to the u.s. supreme court that's next.
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finally. our honeymoon. it took awhile, but at least we got a great deal on our hotel with kayak. i was afraid we wouldn't go.. with our divorce and.... great divorce guys. yeah... search 100s of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! (sighs wearily) here i'll take that! (excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health. i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically,
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and losing weight. go to golo.com and see how golo can change your life. that's g-o-l-o.com. i will share with you, judge jackson, that when i presided over the senate confirmation vote yesterday, while i was sitting there, i drafted a note to my goddaughter, and i will tell you her braids are just a little longer than yours, but as i wrote to her, i told her what i knew this would mean for her life and all that she has in terms of potential. so, indeed, the road toward our more perfect union is not always straight, and it is not always smooth, but sometimes it leads
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to a day like today. >> wow. hi again, everybody, it's 5:00 in new york. celebration in recognition of what is an indeed historic day earlier today on the south lawn of the white house to mark the confirmation of soon-to-be justice ketanji brown jackson to serve on the u.s. supreme court. judge jackson will become the first black woman to serve on the highest court ever, having been confirmed by the u.s. senate yesterday and a vote of 53-47. we'll just point out, though, she is not yet called justice jackson, she receives that title officially when she takes her seat following justice breyer's official retirement in late june or early july. but at the white house event earlier today, president biden spoke to the magnitude of this moment as well. >> there are moments that people go back in history, and they're literally historic. consequential. fundamental shifts in american
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policy. to turn our children and grandchildren and say, i was there. i was there. this is one of those moments, in my view. look. it's a powerful thing when people can see themselves in others. think about that. what's the most powerful thing? i bet every one of you can go back and think of a time in your life where there was a teacher, a family member, a neighbor, somebody who made you believe that you could be whatever you wanted to be. it's a powerful, powerful, powerful notion. that's one of the reasons i believe so strongly that we needed a court that looks like america. >> it's a campaign promise, of course, that's been fulfilled now, a legacy secure that will far outlast his time in office. when judge jackson takes her seat on the bench, the u.s. supreme court, for the first time its history will have the majority of its justices not be white men. however, jackson's confirmation
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does not alter in any way the court's ideological balance. that remains 6-3 with conservatives holding the majority. in the coming months, the supreme court will hear many consequential cases with lasting impact on american life. on the docket for the next term, when judge jackson is on the bench, there will be decisions for her on voting rights and same-sex marriage. earlier, judge jackson spoke about the journey, hers, and the country's, for her to reach this remarkable position. >> it has taken 232 years and 115 prior appointments for a black woman to be selected to serve on the supreme court of the united states. but we've made it. our children are telling me that they see now more than ever that here in america, anything is
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possible. >> that's right. >> in my family, it took just one generation to go from segregation to the supreme court. and it is an honor. the honor of a lifetime. for me to have this chance to join the court, to promote the rule of law at the highest level, and to do my part to carry our shared project of democracy and equal justice under law forward into the future. >> that's where we begin the hour with three people who were in the room where it happened, or in this case in the rose garden where it happened, fatima goss graves is here, the president and ceo of the national women's law center, also barbara lee of california, and with us onset, the reverend
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al sharpton, host of nbc's "politics nation" and the president of the national action network. congresswoman, i start with you. first, tell me your experience today. tell me what you thought, what you saw, what you heard, and where we go from here. >> well, it was very powerful, it was very moving, it was very emotional, and my first feeling, of course, in the midst of a world with so much violence and tragedy and sadness was, oh, happy day, which the hawkins brother from my district in oakland, california, our beloved hawkins brothers, recorded, and today was a happy day. it was joyous, and it felt like, you know, the very first time since 1789 when the first supreme court was formed that we have persisted and persevered and those black women and women and people who had toiled in the
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vineyards for so long, finally we got to this point and we can't stop now, so i was overjoyed, overwhelmed, and i thought about my granddaughters and how now they are seeing and our young black girls now, i suspect, will see a heck of a lot of law school applications this coming year. so, i'm just overwhelmed, overjoyed, and meeting her, i was in the judiciary committee hearings for a couple days, so seeing her parents and in-laws again and her family was just very humbling, really, quite frankly. it was quite an honor for me to be there. it was a historic day and i will always remember this day and tell the stories to my constituents and my grandkids. >> fatima, tell me about your day. >> oh, i was just filled with such deep pride. i mean, of course, pride in judge jackson, whose excellence was again on display, and who really reintroduced herself yet again to the country, the things that were important to her,
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including democracy and reminded us of the arc of history in which she sits, but i also just had pride in this country. the fact that we are here is such a deep reminder of progress that is possible and hope for the future. you know, the fact that she was born in 1970, who would have imagined that she would be on the supreme court and as popular as she is. it just was a wonderful day. the sun was literally shining. >> you know, i was thinking of -- well, first, tell me your thoughts of the day. >> it was very, very moving to be there. i'm in the middle of national action network's convention and i flew down when the president invited some of us, and flying back, i thought about how, as a teenager, i worked for shirley chisholm's campaign, and to see something that a lot of people may have missed, to see kamala harris, a black woman vice president, introducing her and
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announcing the confirmation is a long way from when i was a teenager. but as i was flying back to new york, the bittersweet part of this, to me, nicole, is that in -- when in 1967, when thurgood marshall was confirmed, 22 of the former confederate states, 18 republicans, voted for him. in 2022, those same 22 states, only 16 voted for her. and i sat there thinking, as much as i want to be full of joy and i join the congresswoman and our other guest in being joyous, i think about, i better get back to the n.a.n. convention because 47 republicans voted against a woman with impeccable credentials, and they still have the majority of the supreme court, so let's not forget what we had to go up against, which is the beauty of this.
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we did go up against it and biden did keep his word, but let's not act like we don't have some battles ahead. >> yeah, so, what i was going to ask you is, you know, for me, with my baggage as an ex-republican, there's so much shame, and she's so qualified. i mean, this is someone who has impeccable qualifications, the temperament, everything that people in both parties used to talk about. and for me, the searing image was the lone mitt romney applauding her while the rest of them raced out to get to their maga zooms or wherever the hell they were going. but to me, to only see one republican -- i mean, elections have consequences. people in both parties understand that. but to see only one republican have the grace -- and you voted for her, but the fact that people who didn't vote for her couldn't be part of the moment the country was experiencing gave me that bittersweet feeling. >> which shows the divide in the country. as great as it is today, for black women, for women, and for
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black people, we all couldn't celebrate that together. they didn't even have enough humanity to say, this is historic. and i think that that is very telling. and she comes on the bench in a divided time, giving hope to people that's going to have to fight those divisions. we should not give people a false sense of what she's going to have to deal with and what we all are going to have to deal with. we're in the middle of a midterm election starting, and we're going to hear some ugly things, and if they could be that ugly against her, we need to be clear with the odds that we are dealing with here. these people need to be defeated. these people do not need to be in any way coddled or say they'll get better. they've shown over and over again, i mean, ketanji brown jackson is as good as you're going to get in any race. and they couldn't come together on that, even some of them that had voted for her in the past. >> voted for her before, this year, seven months ago. fatima, we have a lot of conversations on this show with
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you about the really zealousness with which republicans at the state level are working to overturn roe vs. wade and we're going to cover that at a policy level later in the show, but i wonder your thoughts, and again, tragically, her confirmation does nothing to alter the ideological make-up of the court, but i wonder what you think her presence means for some of those just incredibly difficult american sort of cultural and divisive moments before this court and its next term. >> i actually think it really matters that she won't be on the court to hear the mississippi abortion ban case. the fact that there's no black woman on the court to hear that case is a mistake and is a reminder that it is long overdue to have someone in role. but i also know that judge jackson, in her statement today, she talked about the arc of
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history, and i think that was on purpose. i think we will see her presence felt in really critical cases right away, sometimes in dissent, probably largely in dissent but the dissent of today becomes the seeds of decisions tomorrow and guiding the country and to what rev said, i have to think those few senators, they were out of step with this country. this country supports judge jackson. the country understood the moment we were in history, and i think there will be some consequences for how they showed up and the missed opportunity that they had when they had a chance to unite the country. >> congresswoman, president biden talked about something you're talking about, the ripple effects in terms of what becomes possible from today forward. let me show you that. >> i said, it's hard being the
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daughter or the son of a famous person. i said, imagine what it's like being president. she said, she may be. i couldn't agree more. >> president biden seems to really, really enjoy handing over the podium and making space for his incredibly qualified vice president, for his first pick so far to the u.s. supreme court, and he seems to genuinely care about these conversations about what is now thought to be possible. >> sure. and i just have to say, to the president, promises made, promises kept. and i think we see, and reverend al mentioned vice president kamala harris, of course, a daughter of my district, the east bay, and then you have a judge who is soon to be a justice -- associate justice on the highest court in the land. i mean, the possibilities are
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real now. i think we really thought that representation would ever be present on the supreme court. now we see representation, how representation matters on the supreme court. representation matters in the house. representation matters in the senate. and so, we've got to win these elections, because the disrespect and what took place with the senators was disrespectful, but it was also cynical and in many ways the racism and the gender -- sexism just came through over and over again, so i'm not going to bite my tongue when it comes to what we have to do and what that demonstrated, what they did, and so president biden kept this on the high ground. he looked at the -- he is optimistic about the future. he knows he has some tough issues to deal with, but he's also looking long-term in terms of how we get to a country where
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equal justice under the law is real, and certainly, judge jackson brings that lens that has never been on the supreme court in terms of a perspective, the experience, the qualifications of an african american woman. never before since 1789. so, the president's hopeful, like i'm hopeful, that this is a turning point. >> so, all that's been said about the process, we should keep in mind that this is as good as it will get. here's mitch mcconnell in an interview with jonathan swan talking about what could be -- what the next, if the president -- president biden has another opportunity to make a selection. this is what the next process might look like. >> if republicans take the senate in november, as polls suggest is very likely, and a supreme court seat opens up next year, 2023, not an election year, can you make a commitment for the american public here today that you will at least hold hearings on president biden's nominee?
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>> most hypotheticals, i don't answer, and i think that whole question puts the cart before the horse. >> respectfully, it's a big deal that you won't answer this question, because you know, in 2016, you made what you called a principled argument for not holding hearings on president obama's supreme court nominee, merrick garland. you said it was the most important thing you ever did in your career, most consequential. the argument you made was that it was an election year and we should give the voters an opportunity to weigh in and let the next president select it. are you suggesting that you are developing an argument for not holding hearings on a supreme court nominee if it's not an election year? >> i'm suggesting that i'm not going to answer your question. >> i mean, i think the audience -- it's an important question in the public interest. i think people, like, before -- don't you think the public, before the november elections, has a right to know how you
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would approach such a -- >> i choose not to answer the question. >> so, you and i have had a lot of conversations. i try to respectfully offer up my political suggestions for democrats as a recovering member from republican political campaigns. but if democrats do not run as though the future of the supreme court and the future of their ability to confirm justices when their party controls the white house depends on it, i don't know what happens next. >> you know, the outrage of this. senator lindsey graham said outright the other day that if the republicans had the majority, they wouldn't have even had a hearing for ketanji brown jackson. said it outright. and now you have mcconnell refusing to not only refute it but won't even answer it. we are talking about a government that's supposedly built on the balances of power between the legislative,
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judicial, and executive branches. when they are now saying, outright, out loud, that we are going to manipulate and control the judicial branch of government, if that does not -- >> hold it hostage. >> hold it hostage. and stop any process from going forward. if that doesn't make people organize and get ready to come out and vote no matter what they do, i don't know what will. they have gone from those extremists that tried to stop a certification of a vote on january 6th to where now elected gentlemen of the senate are openly saying, we are going to choose on a partisan basis who gets a hearing and who goes to the supreme court. that undercuts the fundamentals of this country was built on. >> it's an unbelievable -- >> nicole, i just got to say, democracy is very fragile, and i think what this interview we just saw really shows exactly who's on the side of democracy and who isn't. this is outrageous. >> and i guess my question for
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you, congresswoman, is, who's job is it to make sure that that choice of a pro-democracy party in the democratic party and something else very, very different and unrecognizable to a lot of people is the choice on the other side? >> what we have to do right now is organize, organize, organize. register people to vote. where you see voter suppression is taking place, all around the country, we have to pass the john lewis voting rights advancement act. we've got to pass the freedom to vote act. we've got to figure out how to get these bills passed so that there's some federal protections. and we have to work at the local level to make sure that people's right to vote is not destroyed in this next election. we have to register to vote and so this is a state of emergency, i think. it's an all hands on deck, and so people better understand right now, we've got to get busy. you heard mitch mcconnell just talk about thwarting the democratic process, and so this is serious. >> it is. >> and i have to say this. the thing that is most
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contemptible about this is we're fighting to preserve democracy in ukraine while they're sitting here tampering with democracy at home. how do we look to the world when we're talking about putin and rightfully so? we thought to be fighting for democracy there. but you have the minority leader of the senate sitting there, playing these kind of games. this is the height of hypocrisy, and people ought to see it as that and deal with it that way. >> oh, this is a fiery panel. to be continued. congresswoman barbara lee, i'm sorry to take you from happy day to anti-democratic voices in the republican party and reverend al sharpton, thank you for starting us off. fatima sticks around. when we come back, one of the most anticipated decisions, policies, facing the u.s. supreme court, whether to uphold, even a little bit, or completely dismantle roe vs. wade in the face of an unprecedented onslaught of republican-backed abortion bans. the latest and perhaps most draconian of those laws approved
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by state lawmakers just this week. we'll tell you about it next. later in the hour, inside the train station in eastern ukraine where a russian missile strike killed dozens of civilians once again underscoring the sheer brutality of vladimir putin's war. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. r. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. if you've been living with heart disease, reducing cholesterol can be hard, even when you're taking a statin and being active. but you can do hard. you lived through thirty-seven red-eye flights in a middle seat. eleven miracle diets... forty-two college campus tours... four overseas postings... one minor stroke... and four citywide blackouts... and now, with leqvio, you can lower your cholesterol, too. when taken with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by over 50% and keep it there with two doses a year. common side effects of leqvio were injection site reaction,
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judge ketanji brown jackson is preparing to take her seat on the supreme court at one of the most consequential times in the court's history and states anticipating that the court will soon overturn roe vs. wade have rushed to pass extreme abortion
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restrictions, basically abortion bans. the latest and most restrictive came in oklahoma where they passed a ban with almost no discussion or debate. under that oklahoma bill, which awaits the governor's signature, anyone who performs an abortion would face up to ten years in prison and up to $100,000 in fines and the measure doesn't just impact the women of oklahoma. that state has become a ref refuge for thousands of texas women seeking to escape that state's near total ban on abortion. in missouri, lawmakers have introduced a texas-style ban aimed at preventing anyone from leaving the state for an abortion. joining us now, cecile richards, former president of planned parenthood, now co-chair of american bridge and fatima goss graves is back with us. cecile, i remember when the texas ban was written, it was sort of wacky.
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it's, you know, imagine this vigilante enforcement, and as it wound its way through the courts, it didn't get normalized, but it almost has. it's being emulated, and it was this worst case scenario. companies left. what is happening? >> well, you're right, and it's incredible that at a time when particularly women in this country are working to get back on their feet, get back into the workforce, their kids back in school, that these attacks by the republican party have only intensified, and i think one of the things that's most disturbing, nicole, is when you look at the states where they are most rabidly focused on outlawing access to safe and legal abortion, they're also the states where women are struggling the most. you look at the state of texas the highest rate of pregnant women who don't get early
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prenatal care and the state's doing nothing about that. the state of mississippi, which of course has brought this abortion ban before the supreme court, the poorest state in the country, a state where a third of children live in poverty, twice the maternal mortality rate of the rest of the country, and this is the focus of the republican party there. so i think these two things go hand in hand. every single state you see that is passing these outrageous bills, criminalizing abortion, are all completely dominated by the republican party, lock, stock, and barrel. it is their entire agenda. they have no agenda on the economy or jobs. they're totally focused on social issues, and they are -- they have their sights aimed at women. >> let me show you what the victims, the women sound like. this is some reporting from "the washington post." >> i used to be very pro-life
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because that's what my family used to be. they used to be very pro-life, and then i had two kids at a young age and i realized, this isn't for everybody. it's not as easy as everybody makes it seem to just raise kids by yourself and be alone and go through it alone. it's not just as easy as it is. i have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old, and i'm 19. i cannot go through another pregnancy. >> cecile, what is happening out there to women like that young mom of two who just wants to be able to make a choice about not having a third? >> exactly. i mean, i'm so glad that you are carrying these stories because the politicians that are passing these bills, of course, most of them will never be pregnant. they are actually making laws over other people. they are taking the rights of everybody in this country to make their own decisions about pregnancy and putting it in the hands of politicians and the
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government, and it is -- it's cruel. the repercussions are only beginning to be felt, and i think as you said earlier in the show, many women, as we've seen, are leaving texas, going to oklahoma, going to, ironically, going to mississippi, going to louisiana, the very states that are also poised to ban abortion. it is going to become impossible for so many women and particularly women with low incomes, particularly for black women, for women who live in rural parts of this country to get access to care, and i think that -- i just have to point out the other hypocrisy of this, nicole, that the state of mississippi, the same republican-led legislature that passed an abortion ban saying that women did not need this right also defeated an attempt to actually expand healthcare coverage for women after they have had a child. right now, in mississippi, new mothers get two months. there is an effort to try to expand that to a year, and these
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same legislators voted that down. that, to me, is what has to be understood is that these are not people who care about women. they don't care about children. they are only doing this for political purposes and they have to pay a price politically in november. >> cecile, there's something, too, that i want to get your wisdom on. where there is a republican stranglehold politically, there's no resistance to these laws. what we've seen make it to the supreme court hasn't faced much skepticism. that's scary in its own right, but the laws are getting more extreme. i mean, exceptions for rape and incest used to be almost pro forma. they're going away. what do you make of sort of the radicalization of the radical anti-abortion policymaking? >> i think the republican party has completely lost their plot. they are so off the deep end, and as i said, this is not, i think, many of these republicans who are championing these
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horrific bills, they aren't even thinking about the consequences. they are only thinking about their political position within the republican party. and i do believe -- i mean, there is going to be and already is so much pain and suffering for people who never -- the american people didn't ask for this. i mean, you can look at any poll in this country. this is not what the american people think we need, to criminalize abortion, put doctors in jail, you know, force women to have children when they're not, as the young woman that you had on the show, that are not prepared to have. that is not what the american people have. this is a crass political move. it may not have immediate consequences, but long-term, i believe it will, because it's not the kind of country that the american people want to live in. but it is horrific, and you're right, there is no -- there is no standard left. you look at oklahoma. there's nothing left. they just want to criminalize abortion all across the board, and if you don't think they're coming for birth control pretty soon, right after this, i think you're sorely mistaken.
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>> so fatima, what does the counteroffensive look like? >> well, i want to say it begins with the conversation we just had about judge jackson. part of what we need to do is remind people of someone like judge jackson, the difference that she would make on the court, and someone who is popular and leading with values of equality and a focus on democracy. we could have made a different choice here all along, and part of the reason you see this race to pass worse and worse laws is because the supreme court itself has signalled that it's okay by allowing the texas ban to go into effect, what the supreme court effectively said is it's okay if roe is overturned and it is okay if abortion is banned, and that is why you have seen this race. so, part of our task is to explain that to women in this
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country, to people in this country, and to highlight that there could be a difference. and our other task, i'll just say, is as we now have bans in texas, in idaho, in oklahoma, and more to come, it's also to make sure people can get the care they need, because we have created -- they have created an on-purpose public health crisis, and i am so deeply worried about it. >> cecile richards, fatima goss graves, thank you for helping us elevate this today. i'm really grateful to both of you. when we come back, an evil that has no limits, that's how ukraine's president zelenskyy describes russia after a missile attack on a civilian rail station killed dozens earlier today. more from the scene of that latest russian atrocity after a quick break. t latest russian atrocity after a quick break. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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you can see some of the damage here. so, explosives from that missile have dropped here. they've -- just remember that there will have been hundreds of people queueing up to get inside the train station. we've seen it. they will have been killed, a lot of them. terrible damage here. you can see people have brought their lunch, their packed lunches, few bags here.
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and then they would have tried -- they would have been queueing up to get into the booking hall. >> that was sky news correspondent jon sparks, chilling report in kramatorsk in eastern ukraine, where a missile struck a crowded train station. at least 50 people are believed to be dead. five of them are children, and nearly 100 others are wounded. it's another clear atrocity at the hands of the russian military forces, and in a place where thousands of civilians, most of them women and children, they're the only ones who are allowed to leave in that country, they've been passing through to catch trains, which has been viewed, at least until today, as the safest way to evacuate toward western ukraine or other countries. president zelenskyy of ukraine called it, today, quote, an evil that has no limits. "the washington post" is reporting that pro-kremlin journalists even confirmed the strike within minutes and said that it was aimed at ukrainian fighters, but then they deleted
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those tweets when the horrific civilian toll and the killing of innocent people became abundantly clear, even to them. joining our coverage, retired army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, former director for european affairs for the national security council. he's now a board member with the renew democracy initiative. and greg myre, national security correspondent for npr. colonel vindman, i want to start with you. we haven't spoken -- i can't believe we haven't spoken yet this week, but since the horrors of bucha became clear the world over. just tell me your thoughts on the last seven days of what ukraine has been through and our efforts to bolster them. >> i think that the murder of civilians is intentional. it's intended to crush the will morale of the ukrainian people to resist russia's offensive, russia's war. i actually just recently read
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some well considered propaganda attempting to rally the russian people around exactly the kind of cleansing, ethnic cleansing that the russians need to do, this denazification, the kind of subject matter behind the denazification campaign. it includes really punishing the civilian population for supporting their democratically elected government and conducting this barbarous attacks, whether it's in bucha or this rail station around kramatorsk is completely within the scope of these types of activities. it's the way the russians will continue to fight this war. if this becomes a protracted war, we're going to see a lot of buchas. we're going to see a lot of kramatorsks. we have not even had the full reporting of the things that are unfolded in mariupol where thousands of people are reported killed. i think we need to recognize that the u.s. has an ability to help end this conflict.
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frankly, if the u.s. is successful in the next four to six -- if the ukrainians are successful with u.s. help in the next four to six weeks, this war will have to start to kind of run down. the russians will just run out of military forces. but if we sit on the sidelines the way we have for the previous six weeks, we're going to see a lot more of these for the coming months, so we need to start providing more advanced capabilities. we need to start considering how to train the ukrainians to absorb and start to operate patriot missile batteries, iron domes from israel, all these type of things will be helpful in terms of this current strike, this looks like an ss-21, a short-range ballistic missile strike on the -- in that rail station. these types of things could be dealt with, actually. there are military capabilities out there. and then just victory. victory is the humanitarian approach here. the sooner this war ends, the sooner we can end the human suffering. >> you know, colonel vindman,
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that former ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, said the same thing. he said ukraine winning is the way to stop the slaughter of innocents. i want to really drill down on something you said, because it seems that in russia, the genocide of what their propaganda describes as nazis is the military strategy. president zelenskyy describes what's happening in his country as a genocide. and it is only in the west that we're, i don't know if that's what it is. it's clearly what it is from both the russian side and the ukrainian side, right? why don't we call it a genocide? >> i think it's a high bar. it comes with, first of all, the term comes with a lot of baggage, and there's, just like we've incrementally called putin a war criminal, and dealing with somebody that engages in genocide is not really something that's -- it's not a possibility for diplomacy. so, i think those are really loaded terms that have to be for the most weighty circumstances.
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but it's indicative of how slow aspects of this administration have been to adjust to the reality of the situation. frankly, my deep concern is we are now starting to see trickle in of more cable systems. we are now seeing s-300s transferred in from slovakia. there are more cable somz systems coming in but it's still too little and it's still too late, and within the white house, within the national security council at a senior level, there remain people that are deeply apprehensive about russia winning or ukraine winning too much or russia losing too badly. they are deeply afraid of how that might trigger a broader confrontation, which is illogical, because if russia is losing already, why would they want to engage in a war with nato? or conversely, that if russia loses too badly, it's destabilized and we don't know what comes next.
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this is a paralyzing fear within the senior levels of the national security council that has arrested us from doing the things we need to help ukraine win because if ukraine loses, it's not just ukraine losing. it's democracy losing. it sets the u.s. national security back in a massive way for the coming decades of the 21st century. >> it's hard to imagine reaching a conclusion that russia could lose too badly after what the world saw in bucha. greg, i want to show you what president zelenskyy told cbs about that today. >> translator: we are defending the right to live. i never thought this right was so costly. these are human values, so that russia doesn't choose what we should do and how i'm using my rights. that right was given to me by god and my parents. >> what did you see in bucha? >> translator: death.
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just death. >> greg, to people whose expertise is how russia fights wars, it may not be -- maybe it's shocking to everybody, but tell me what is clear now in your view in terms of the russian strategy in ukraine? >> well, it looks very familiar, which is to destroy the country, beyond any strategic goals they have. and you know, just seeing this for decades now, the russians had this approach in afghanistan, in the '80s, in chechnya in the '90s and early 2000, and since then in georgia, in syria, in ukraine. this is a sort of scorched earth policy where civilians clearly are getting hit on such a regular basis you can't pretend that it was an accident, what we're seeing, the schools, hospitals, railway stations hit.
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the russians want to drive the civilians out of those areas. they know that they've already had a very tough fight, much tougher than they thought, and they're absolutely prepared to flatten these places. and again, we haven't seen some of the other places like mariupol and i suspect what is coming is this second phase of the war where the russians are going to concentrate their forces, concentrate their power in the east. they were sort of spread out, trying to attack the north, the south, and the east. but what we're looking at is a real concentration of russian troops and firepower in the east and what we saw at the train station is certainly something that could happen again and again. >> what a horrifying thought. greg is sticking around. colonel vindman sticks around. a quick break for us. d. colonel vindman sticksro aund. a quick break for us
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do the research, todd. listen to me, kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to find you great deals on flights, cars and hotels. they're lying to you! who's they? kayak? arr! open your eyes! compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. this is just an ords town. this is how russia came to protect the donbas. how they view the protection of the russian population. this is the full state of our reality. >> ukraine's president zelenskyy on how the kremlin frames its war in southeast ukraine. the disinformation that's rampant. they see themselves as a savior
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for people versus the reality, the truth of what it really is. the brutality, the attack on civilians. russian forces are intensifying air strikes against the civilian population as they try to flee. we're back with colonel vindman. maybe it's the part of his job that we see so much but the diplomacy and the politics of persuasion that president zelenskyy, he's been compared to churchill. it's the rapid response of the disinformation of multiple languages that is so dynamic. it's so fast. as soon as the lies come out, it seems zelenskyy gets to a russian media outlet and knocks it down. is it working? >> absolutely. he's been truly extraordinary in
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his ability not only to get his message out but to target the audience he's speaking to whether it's a specific european country or whether it's the u.s. audience or breaking into russia to speak to the russians directly. he is really changing the conversation. if we just rewind six weeks to the start of this war when nobody thought ukraine was going to last for very long, the u.s. and britain were the only countries that were sending any sort of substantial military assistance to ukraine. now, i believe the number is in the 20s, maybe 30 countries, most of the nato countries. now they are moving from if smaller shoulder held, javelins and stinger missiles to seeing larger weapons go in. he's really moved the needle on that conservation. it's become a global celebrity. you see on social media the way he struck such a chord. just visually seeing him in that
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t-shirt surrounded by his closest advisers, compared to vladmir putin who either you don't see or see at the end of a comically long table. i think we thought -- many people thought russia was so good at misinformation but they have not held a candle to ukraine in the first six weeks of this conflict. >> it is the power of the truth and the antedote to putin's disinformation that is the skill set that perhaps something ukraine has had to deal with all along. it's something never been in focus for us. colonel vindman talk about how president zelenskyy is conducting himself as a country at war that united his people behind him and as someone who is the tip of the sphere trying to
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dismantle strangle hold. >> i think masterful. it's shocking looking at president zelenskyy. he'saged a decade within the span of four to six weeks. you see how this war is weighing on him, weighing on his soul dealing with the loss of thousands of his people, citizens. he's risen to the occasion at every turn. he's led his ukrainian military to victories. he's rallied the morale of the people to recognize they could now win this war. they are going to lead this war as a sovereign independent state. they are fighting for every last bit of territory. he's fought hard to get the western world, to get the u.s. to come in and recognize that ukraine could win, win this pivotal battle not just for ukraine but democracy. it's frustrating to watch this
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administration and i remember when he had these conversations six weeks ago that we were going to get to these points. these decisions that seemed impossible about the kinds of weapons we would provide. all sort of different capabilities, it's happening. why can't we look right around the corner and determine where we're headed and head some of these things off. why is this administration being so reactive? it's deeply frustrating to watch this administration and again, i put a lot of this blame on the national security council. the one that misjudged afghanistan and mismanaged the withdrawal from afghanistan. they are on the same team that's making significant mistakes, too slow, reactive to respond to the situation. we need to do better. what we need to do, frankly, we
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need to figure out if the ukrainians say something, we need to say yes and figure out how to do it. we can't say we know better than you what you need and what you can use. we say yes. we need to coordinate a lot better than we have. >> thank you so much for your insights and your expertise. thank you both for spending time with us today. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. today. quick break for us we'll be right back. for adventure. your home... for romance. your home for big savings. [ laughs ] hey, mom, have you seen m-- ew. because when you bundle home and auto with progressive, your home is a savings paradise. bundles progressive.
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thank you so much for letting us into your home. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber start s now. happy friday. we're tracking several stories, including the big one ripping across america. the

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