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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  February 16, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PST

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nelson's deputy, to lead the policy in his place. to fill the role of top -- francis collins, who until late last year, led the national institutes of health. the white house says that nelson and collins will perform these new rules on a temporary basis until permanent candidates can be nominated and confirmed. that doesn't press tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. now, it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. w, it is there are no goofball candidates who get elected as republicans to the senate. but, does he have a plan for getting rid of the good balls who are already in the senate but have, you know, six year terms? >> it is an ironic proposition, right? someone should flag it for mcconnell. just in case he doesn't know. there are goof bulls already
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in. >> they are in the building. already. thank you, alex. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. we'll, if you think that donald trump is stupid and you have a right, to a magic and. imagine what his lawyers think of him. new york's attorney general releases a letter that shows that mazars, the accounting firm, has dropped donald trump. donald trump's insane ego demands that donald trump released a statement fighting back against that mazars letter. when he does, that when donald trump does that, he contradicts everything that his lawyers have been telling the judge in that case. then, tonight, in the braking's of the night, the attorney general of the state of new york uses donald trump's exact, profoundly stupid words, in his statement against him. that is where that case is tonight.
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mazars has flipped. mazars has flipped and is working with new york prosecutors in their investigations of donald trump. that is the judgment of our first guest tonight, attorney philip -- who has studied the letter that mazars accounting firms sent to don trump's company. donald trump and the company has plans last week. philip writes, this is a big deal. it means that mazars has flipped and is now protecting itself, not trump. or, as trump put it in his statement last night, that mazars didn't feel it could fight it out. that is undoubtedly the non wave-able conflict of interest with the trump organization referred to in mazars february 9th lover. letitia james revealed a letter in a court filing this week to support her argument that donald trump and his children should be forced to comply with her subpoenas for their under oath testimony about the trump
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businesses. in the breaking news of this hour, attorney general letitia james, has now responded to donald trump's statement about her release of that february 9th letter from donald trump's now former accountants. in a filing with the judge in the case tonight, the attorney general says, it is truly rare for a party to publicly disagree with statements submitted by his own attorneys in a sign pleading, let alone one day after the pleating was filed. the attorney general refers to the fact that donald trump's lawyers insisted in writing to the court that donald trump should not be compelled to testify about his businesses pecans he does not know enough about his businesses. tonight, the attorney general told the judge quote, he professes intimate knowledge of his company, its assets, and their values. and, it is statement made
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yesterday coast, donald trump says, today, the attorney general points out that donald trump's written brandt responding to the mazars letter begins at dawn's own description of the evaluation of his assets, which is exactly what the attorney general is investigating. in a statement, donald trump boasts, my company has among the best real estate and other assets anywhere in the world, has significant miles of cash, and has relatively little debt, which is totally current. he then listed cash and marketable securities, escrow, reserve deposits, prepaid a spence's, net worth. he went on to say that the numbers don't tell the whole story because, quote, based on current enthusiasm in transactions, which have or will take place, the brand value today could be, in my opinion, substantially higher. so, once again, donald trump holds himself out as the
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highest, most definitive authority on the evaluation of his businesses. he does that in his boastful, written statement. it is a direct and complete, total contradiction to whet his lawyers have told the judge in this case. the reason his lawyers have said why he should have to testify. the attorney general clearly believes that donald trump's written statement solidifies her right to compel his under oath testimony about the evaluation of his businesses. in her filing with the judge tonight, attorney general james says, quote, mr. trump claims to know exactly what the office of the attorney general is investigating. once again, we see, there is no one, no, one who testifies against donald trump more effectively than donald trump. the new york times has reported that mazars has been
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cooperating with the investigation of donald trump and that trump's principal accountant at mazars has testified to the ground jury in that investigation. the mazars letter has said that mazars has decide that last week, they refused to continue working on trump tax returns that would do this week. they said, quote, there were only a limited number tax returns that still remain to be filed, including those of donald j trump and melania trump. the mazars letter pointed out that the due date for those returns was yesterday, february 15th. added this one specific item about the returns. we believe the only information left to complete those returns is the information regarding the matt calum are a junior apartment. as you know, donald bender has been asking for this information for several months, but has not received. it once that information is provided to your new tax prepares, the returns can be complete. now, remember, the trump
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company, the trump's chief financial officer has already been indicted in manhattan before, not declaring compensation that included a rent free apartment. car payments, school tua shun for children. [inaudible] mazars was unwilling to file tax returns that did not properly deal with, quote, matt calamari junior apartment. especially at a time when the trump organization is already under indictment for using rent free apartments, as undeclared income for people working under trump. donald trump issued a completely incoherent, written word rant yesterday in reaction to mazars dropping him as a client. in that he said that hillary clinton should be executed for spying and he seemed to confess,
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to just confess, to the fraud charges that the company is already facing by writing this. the charge against a 74 year old, long term and wonderful employee, allen vessel bergh, is that he did not pay taxes on a company car or company apartment. do others pay such a text? did former manhattan district attorney's events pay tax on his car? the charge, having to do with my pain for the education of his grandchildren. murders all over the city and they are worried about me helping with young children's education? so, donald trump appears to be admitting that no taxes were paid in the conversation to bison bird, included free car, free portman, free to addition for his grandchildren, a composition package that was close to $2 million. donald trump does not say that all relevant tax laws were complied with. he simply seems to be saying,
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why are they enforcing tax laws against us? the breaking news from new york 's attorney general tonight comes on top of the news earlier in the day that president biden has, once again, crush donald trump's claim of privilege to block the release of white house visitor logs, including the white house visitor lots of january 6th, the most important day in the trump presidency. the day a trump mob attacked the capitol. to claim the white house visitor logs are classified, as donald trump has been trying to, is virtually impossible, since the obama white house and now the biden white house, have routinely made public their own white house visitor logs. the biden white house counsel, in a letter, telling the national archives to release the trump white house visitor logs to the genesis committee said, quote, as a matter of policy, and subject to-limited exceptions, the biden administration voluntarily disclose as such visitor logs on a monthly basis.
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the obama administration follow the same practice. the majority of the entries over which the former president has asserted executive privilege, would be publicly released under current policy. accordingly, president biden does not uphold the former presidents assertions of privilege. he therefore instruct you to provide to the select committee the records and portions of records identified as privileged by the former president. leading off our discussion tonight, tim o'brien, senior columnist, he is the author of the book, trump nation. philip brought, near an attorney and contributor to -- mr. rutner, thank you very much for joining us. along with him, tonight. i want to begin with your legal analysis of the mazars letter to donald trump, dropping him as a client. >> thanks for having me, lawrence. my political analysis is that trump is in big trouble.
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you are right to focus on this issue. just look at what's happened ... his accounting firm, for ten years, fired him. accounting firms don't fire their clients, especially their big clients. they cited a non wave-able conflict of interest, which means that they are adverse to him. they are no longer protecting him. they are protecting themselves. they also warned off users that they could not rely on the financial information that trump has supplied. that is terrible in a business where your lifeblood is access to cash and loans from banks. there are outstanding bones that could be called on the basis of the accounting firm saying that the financial information supplied is no longer reliable. it could be almost impossible for trump to find new sources of cash because who is going to
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rely on his financial statements now? worse yet, all of this is happening in the midst of a civil and criminal investigation taking place in new york. that all lines up to, potential, legal disaster for trump. for his business, potentially first freedom. >> tim o'brien, you have been studied the trump businesses for years. also, donald trump in the way he responds to things. when you look back on the way this is unfolding over the last couple of days, if attorney general james intended to provoke donald trump by releasing the mazars letter, it absolutely worked. he she provoked him into -- into what she has been trying to prove, which is that donald trump does know about his businesses. he doesn't know how the valuations arrived. yet it should have to testify
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under oath after that. oh no, donald knows nothing about. it he lets all the accountants do. that he knows nothing about. it he can't help. then, donald's ego gets tested by that mazars letter. he releases that breathtakingly stupid document yesterday, where donald trump contradicts his lawyers point by point. then, the attorney general uses that for the judge tonight. >> yeah. first and foremost, let's remember the author of that really unhinge screen that went till last night, at one point on the nuclear button. hanging over all of this is raw evidence, not only for his culpability in these investigations, but of his mental state. the fact that he is about to turn 76 in june. his maturity is still around the radius of a seven-year-old. it is always groundhog day with
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donald trump. he has been playing the same game of a inflating the value of what he has for decades, for at least five decades. he is a deeply insecure man who uses wealth as a card. the second you start to put a little pin near that balloon, he loses control. his lawyers, right now, have to be calling their hair out. on monday, earlier this week, trump and his children all said we don't know anything. ivanka said she had no knowledge of transactions involving in washington. even though she led the deal. donald trump jr. couldn't remember what his title was at the company. their father said that he had no specific information or knowledge at the financial holdings. two days later, he takes a social media with this letter. in fact, point by point, very detailed and specific
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information about financial holdings that alone blows out this carefully crafted defense that his lawyers have begun to put into play for him. to keep him from having to testify. that gets blown up. secondly, he engages in this lunatic proclamation of how much money he has. he says, i have $3 million in brand value. as philippe attest, no accountant takes personal attestations of what their brand value -- and on unarmed and on. he accuses the prosecutors of forcing his accountants to quit when they counted's have already said in a document that has been made public that they quit because it was an wave-able conflict. on weibo conflict is that they are cooperating with the prosecutors. that is why they have left to service. they also don't believe that
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they can make a good faith of's support with the numbers he has been putting out there. they came too late to this. they should have done it 20 years ago. they finally decided to do with this week. that letter he wrote last night has created a whirlwind of fresh problems on top of what already is a nightmare scenario for him. they'll, quickly before you go, with your legal experience, what is your sense of what is happening right now? between the attorney general and mazars, and mazars level of cooperation with prosecutors? >> well i think right now makes our is deep into his self protective mode. they can't do anything about what's happened now, that is passed, all they can do now is is figure out the best way to move forward. and i think they have figured out the best way to move forward is to cooperate. they know everything.
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and so we know that they are talking to the district attorney in manhattan, we know that they have provided reams of documents. and right now they are spending a lot of time with their lawyers as well, and i'm sure their lawyers are telling them to cooperate. firing trump was a good first step, it was a little late. and they may have some making up to do for that lateness, but they are now doing what they can and protect themselves and not worry about. trump >> philip and tim o'brien thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up marco rubio and senator republicans are now fully supportive and now the terrorists who violently attack flight crews on american flights. and want those republican senators want those air
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terrorists to be able to board any flight after they have been convicted of beating flight crews violently. congressman -- who is running against marco rubio for senate will join us next. nate will join u next lanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ before treating your chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more, you're not the only one with questions about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start, with about 10 minutes of treatment once every 3 months. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you, and if a sample is available. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.
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it's wireless that does it all and saves a lot. get the new samsung galaxy s22 series on xfinity mobile. and right now, save big with up to $750 off a new samsung device. well, that's exactly what marco switch today. rubio and seven republican senators are now saying and they have put their support for those criminals on american airliners in writing a letter to the eternal -- opposing the creation of a no fly list for passengers who engage in the vicious violence we have been seeing on american airliners. in their letter to the attorney general, the actually say, we strongly condemn any violence
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towards airline workers. they say that in the letter, they then defend the people who commit the violence against airline workers. marco rubio, rick scott, kevin kramer, cynthia lewis, and joe cove in all support the criminals in the sky, and those criminals right to reboard any aircraft they want to board after they have been convicted of savagely beating flight crews. some of the people who have savagely beaten flight crews have actually brought down those planes, cross country flights have been forced into emergency landings in the middle of the country thanks to the criminals who marco rubio is now defending, ceo of delta airlines wrote a letter to the attorney general asking for the creation of a national no fly list that can be shared by all of the airlines. to identify the people who have attacked flight crews and the people who are forced down
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planes that are then boarded by police officers rushing onto those planes, rushing down the aisles to drag the criminals off the planes as children and other victimized passengers watch. sarah nelson, the president of the flight attendants union says our flights are under attack by a small number of people, and it has to stop. just this past week and out of control passenger tried to open aircraft doors, and charge the flight tech. we have been punched, kick, spit on, and sexually assaulted, this puts everyone at risk and disrupt the safety of flight. every single one of the senators who signed this letter knows full well what is at stake if we leave a gap in aviation safety and security. republican senators tried to pretend that their letter to the attorney general is that -- in their letter to the attorney general that the new terrorist and our skies are simply engaging in legitimate political discourse as they would call it about masks.
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sarah nelson says this is not about masks, and of the worst attacks have nothing to do with masks. you're either for protecting crew and passengers from these attacks or your against. joining us now is democratic congressman of florida, a member of the house judiciary committee, she served in the first impeachment trial of donald trump, and she is running for united states senate in florida. congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us tonight, i want to begin with your reaction to this letter by marco rubio and seven republicans in effect defending the criminals on our airlines. >> lawrence it's good to be back with you and look, i was assigned to the orlando international airport during 9/11 as a police commander. it is a day that i certainly will not forget and none of us should ever forget but perhaps marco rubio and his friends
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have forgotten. this is yet again an example of marco rubio picking and choosing who he thinks should follow the rules, or obey the law. perhaps they would have better served our nation if they had written the doj asking that the person's at all levels who were involved in january 6th be held accountable. i have talked to airline employees i have talked to the police officers that have had to respond to some of the disruptions and violence that have occurred in our nation's airport. the employees don't deserve it, a matter of fact the police officers who have to respond to these dangerous situations don't deserve it. and i think it is a shameful day, this is an example of a lack of leadership coming out of the u.s. senate involving marco rubio. >> and you know marco rubio is going to be running against u.s. the law and order republican, as all these
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republicans do. but he is not supporting the police officers who have to rush into those fuselages and those very tight quarters to try to drag out one of these violent criminals. he's not going to help keep those criminals off those planes, so those police officers can be engaged and other protective services. >> and you know really lawrence you make a good point, perhaps he should have written a letter to the d o.j. really recognizing the officers that have been put in this situation, to deal with these unruly dangerous and sometimes violent passengers. but yet again, this is an example of marco rubio doing what he feels is in his best interest and certainly not for the police officers that he claims to support so much. or the other innocent people, the airline employees, or the airport employees who are involved in these situations. >> and before writing this letter, marco rubio has said in
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his campaign against you, he's obviously worried about your candidacy. he says if all diamonds has made it harder for police to do their jobs, what have you done for police to do their jobs? >> well you know what we have learned is that marco rubio will make his mouth say anything. you know the bottom line is lawrence i served 27 years as a law enforcement officer i worked at every level, every rank. when i was put -- putting my sons to bed at night and putting my bulletproof vest to go to work. marco rubio was sleeping at home in his bed. during this critical situation in our nation we need real leadership, we need real crisis managers. marco rubio has demonstrated that he does not have the courage or the ability to manage. i do, the our listeners out there, if they want to support my cane -- >> congresswoman val demings thank you very much for joining
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us tonight on this very important issue. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and coming up, the new texas voter suppression laws are working. it took -- three attempts over 28 days to successfully get her mail in ballot to vote in the texas primary. texas voters -- to just give up. when you meet pen as our next guest, you will see how texas republicans misjudged voters like pam. also joining us, texas congressman of former voting rights attorney. of former voting rights attorney. your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. ♪ ♪
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describing her frustration, trying to navigate new requirements to apply to a mail-in ballot under texas republicans new voter
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suppression law. it took bad gas can, who almost never misses an election, three attempts over 28 days, before she successfully received her mail-in ballot. her first ballot application was rejected because the form needed had not been uploaded on to the county website. she tried again. the new form required voters to provide texas i.d. number, like a drivers license, partial social security number, the number must match what they used when they register to vote for that gasket, that was 46 years ago. so, she filled up the application. it was rejected. fan gas can is just one of thousands of texas voters whose mail-in ballot applications were rejected, as the new law has created confusion among both voters and local election officials. and, ben gasket worries that others experiencing when she did, we'll just give. up if you are having all of these problems, you might just
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say, screw it. i'm just not going to do. it and then guess what? they don't vote. they don't participate in democracy. joining us now is the texas voter who has finally received her ballot after it was rejected several times. and from texas, a voting rights attorney. penn gas can, it is a pleasure and honor to have you on the show. they were counting on you to give up. it feels like that's what the design of the law was. let's make voters like this try and fail, try again and fail, and then just give a. >> well, i'm a tough texas woman and they are counting wrong. we are going to stay in this thing. i'm 74 years old. i've been there some things. this is just one more thing. but we are going to vote. we're going to try and vote them out. we are going to vote.
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we aren't going to let anyone stop us from voting. this is a power play. they are not going to keep that power. so. not going to happen. >> you are a longtime leader of the women's voters. you know voting. you know how to vote and comply with voting laws. >> absolutely. >> you've said that the form seems to you, to be deliberately confusing. you know, it's as provide this form of i.d., or that form of i.d., or that form of it. in the end, you just provided every single when they asked for, even though the way reads it is only supposed to be one of those. >> that is right. it says you must provide one. of the following. the first one is your drivers license number. i've had a checks drivers license for 60 years. i can read and follow directions.
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i have a degree from the university of texas in austin, in english. i know how to read apology actions. i put it my drivers license number. the next line says if you do not have a texas drivers license, etc, etc, then put in the last four digits from your social security number. well, ahead in texas drivers license. i don't feel that it. i got rejected. when i got rejected the next time, i just did what could old girls do all the time, wherever there is a blank, i filled it in. you are not going to tell me that i left something out. >> colin allred, i want you to put on your goading voting rights attorney hat. i know when you were -- you've interviewed voters like pam gaskin, who have had struggles like this for the voting laws. in order to make a case about how these voting laws are actually working. this seems to me to be pretty
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much when you were predicting this law would involve. >> yeah. lawrence, we've talked about this for sometime. we knew this was going to happen. you know, they messed with the wrong person with pam gaskin. she's not going to let them disenfranchise her. as she said, they're going to be thousands of texans who will be disenfranchised. you know, we've seen this before in texas. and 2014, when they passed the voter i.d. law, they didn't implemented well. there was no attempt to educate on the changes they made. the governor to time had a hard time voting, even jim right couldn't vote because he had an expired license. so, people who are prominent were affected by that in that election. where are the mass event to educate voters about these really important changes that they've made? we are here and our county where i am, for mail-in ballots being returned, not even
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applications, ballots themselves, 25% of them are being returned right now entering our election period. >> pam gaskin, you have seen it all in texas during your time. what does this feel like to you, given all the struggles that you have faced in texas over voting and other issues? >> lawrence, this is two point oh, i saw my parents pay poll tags. i saw them papal takes for themselves. i saw my dad pay pulled paid for other citizens up and down the street. just to facilitate voting. when i started the university of texas in september of 1965, the voting rights act had just been signed. at that time, you had to be 21 years old to vote. so, when i turned 21, three years later, my dad drove to austin, picked me up, brought
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me back to this county, took me to the courthouse the next day, got me register to vote, drove me back to austin so that i could go to my afternoon classes. he told me all the way back. he said, you go vote, every time the polls open. with the only thing on the ballot is dog catcher, you vote for the dog catcher because voting ... this was his word, it is a blood body right. i saw john lewis get bloodied and beaten on the bridge. i saw that on tv, a black and white tv in lamar, texas. i have been there. i know what they're doing. they are trying to take us back. we are not going back. we're not going back. >> colin allred, how are you going to get the message to other voters who faces frustrations to help them through what's pam gaskin had
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to go through and figure out herself? >> yeah. first of all, i just want to say it is an honor to be on here with pam gaskin. hearing her testimony, about what she's saying ... lawrence, this is why it's so important, it's so personal for people. this is a bloodbath right, as she said. this is something we shouldn't have to deal with in 2022 in this country. it is ridiculous that we are having this conversation. now, it is going to be incumbent on campaigns like ours to try and educate voters, who are already going to have a hard time voting by mail, because they have to be 65 or older, disabled, out of town for the entire voting period, students, those with disabilities and seniors. trying to really educate them on these bizarre changes that have been made. they shouldn't have to deal with this. >> all right ... >> i have done a lot of speaking to groups on how to navigate this, with the
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legal women voters, we don't just registered people to vote, we educate them. so ... it's when i'm working on. >> paul pam gaskin, i've another group i want to continue speak to, that is a few million people who are watching and listening to you right now. please come back and tell us more about what is happening as texas continues to struggle with this. pam gaskin and congressman allred, thank you very much for this discussion tonight. i really appreciated. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. >> thanks, lawrence. >> coming up, the new yorkers editor has written a piece it asked the question, is a civil war ahead? he also put that question to congressman cortez and a question. you will hear her question, next, when -- joins us. joins us and saying, “no thanks...” ...to a boston cream. jardiance is a once-daily pill
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tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, and don't change or stop your asthma treatments, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. are you ready to du more with less asthma? just ask your asthma specialist about dupixent. the new yorker, david remnick - i'm norm. - i'm szasz. [norm] and we live in columbia, missouri. we do consulting, but we also write. [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly; it's important. we walk three to five times a week, a couple miles at a time. - we've both been taking prevagen for a little more than 11 years now. after about 30 days of taking it, we noticed clarity that we didn't notice before. - it's still helping me. i still notice a difference. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. asked the question, is a civil war ahead? in a article reviewing the
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assessments presented in two books, how civil wars start by barbara f walter, and how democracies die by steven and daniel. those authors have already joined us and our ongoing discussion here, in our segments titled a host -- a house divided. david asked aoc the question he asked in his article is a civil war ahead? >> you hear talk now about being on the brink of civil war that's the latest phrase any series of books that have come out. but what will happen to bring us to that degraded point if in fact it happens? >> well i think it has started. but it's not beyond hope. we're never beyond hope. but we've already seen in the opening salvo's of this, where you have a very targeted, specific attack on the right to vote across the united states.
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but in particular in areas where republican power is threatened over both changing electorates and demographics. you have you know white nationalist, reactionary politics starting to grow into a critical mass. and so what we have is the continued sophistication and takeover of our democratic systems in order to turn them into an democratic systems. and order to overturn the results that a party in power may not like. >> and your concern is what we will look like what nation? any nation in particular? >> i think we will look like ourselves. i think we will return to jim crow. i think that is what we risk. >> and joining us now is david remnick editor of the new yorker, that interview with
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congresswoman alexandra's part av special digital issue of the new yorker interviews. thank you very much for joining, us appreciate it. it was a fascinating answer when you asked what countries might you compare this to. because that is as we both know what the authors of those books do, that you have considered. they look at the examples of 30 years of violence in northern ireland. they look at other violent eruptions around the world. but alexandra ocasio-cortez said oh no, it will look like us, it will look like the way we work. what was your reaction to that having considered all the other cases made in the books? >> well i think it's important to point out that it's the job of analysts, of journalists, of historians who are considering the president. to honor the one hand not be alarmists, but also warn us of the possibilities that are suggested by present conditions
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and even the past. and when americans hear the phrase civil war, their heads tend to immediately lurch towards soldiers in blue and gray from the middle 19th century. and that experience of people in pitch battle at gettysburg or appomattox, or antietam or anywhere. that's not what we're talking about here, even if these dire warnings from the scholars suggest something else. i would look to sometimes to an experience like in israel, like in the 90s where there was great promise. it was great liberal promise in the broader sense of the world liberal. possibility of a settlement with the palestinians and suddenly a movement started to grow and not just a conservative movement in opposition to this. but it became nationalist, and
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racist, and finally violent where somebody lurched out of the shadows and was shot robin. and that change the political calculus in israel and the israel palestinian question for decades to come. we have had experience now in the presidency of someone who has and it -- has made it very clear that he was ready to incite violence, who countenance white nationalist politics. and whose power of persuasion is frightening. and it's so frightening that even somebody as right wing, as manipulative and machiavellian as mitch mcconnell is now suddenly bulking at it. and at odds with the head of house of representatives. so civil war is something that requires a redefinition, or a reconsideration of what that might mean here. but alexandra ocasio-cortez
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like so many others, like myself, are very concerned that the achievement of a multi ethnic democracy, which she had great promise in the middle 60s and decades after, was not achieved. but maybe re-reversed. and that is a really awful prospect. >> yes and in your interviews with barbara walter, they made clear that exactly what you just said. we don't mean to armies, we don't mean uniforms on the other side. when the phrase civil war is used, that example you just gave of israel is not one that i have heard before. but is illustrative of the kind of thing that these authors are talking about. which includes possibly sporadic violence here and there, the most you know horrific version of it being wet timothy mcvay did as a precursor to all of this, decades after. >> absolutely. >> and we get to january 6th,
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168 people he kills in a federal building and oklahoma. but to the assassination, if you said to americans is it conceivable to you? that you could see a political inspired and sasse a nation in this environment, i think everyone would say yes that is easy for us to imagine especially those of us who can remember the assassinations of president kennedy, martin luther king, and bonnie kennedy. >> absolutely. >> americans have a strange sense of invulnerability that is occasionally punctured by historical incidents within -- whether assassinations or harder or 9/11, but we have an unusual comparative use leaking, unusual serenity sometimes as if sometimes it's not being achieved but eternal. as a piece is not achieved but
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eternal. it somehow comes to us as a fantastic surprise when that is punctured. i think it's the job, and look i know that colleagues of mine from both sides of the political spectrum now believe the left and now on the right think any talk of civil war is really out of bounds, and unreasonable for different reasons, and i respect their analysis. but i think it is our job to take the very serious measured warnings of scholars like the ones who came on tonight seriously. because they are taking into account very real evidence of the possibility of sporadic violence like the kind you saw on january 6th. that could get worse and you see groups all over the country all over the country, that pledge themselves to politics by other means, by violence. and we see really alarming
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number of people on the right who think that not only was donald trump not defeated in a legitimate election, but that it is tenable to use politics by other means, and going forward. and that should be of great concern to all of us. >> david rudnick thank you for voicing those concerns and for giving a framework in your interviews that we have been working with here. and thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. and in tonight's last word you will heal more from representative alexandra ocasio-cortez about how she deals with all of the frustrations of what she calls the insider stuff. of being a member of congress, that's next. gress, that's next. instead, start small. with nicorette.
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wheeling and dealing in congress and the frustrations that come with it. >> the day today of my day job is frustrating, so is everyone else is. you know i ate should when i was a waitress and a bartender, and i eat -- as a member of congress. it's called a job. [laughs] you know, and yes i deal with the wheeling and dealing and whatever it is that insider stuff, and you know, i advance amendments that some people would criticize as too little and too small and etc. and also, i also advance big things that people say is unrealistic and naive. you know, work is like -- that is always the great fear when it comes to work or pursuing anything. you want to write something and in your head it's this big beautiful like nobel prize
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winning concept. and then you are humbled by the words that you actually put on paper. and that is the work of movement, that is the work of organizing, that is the work of elections, that is the work of legislation, that is the work of theory of concepts you know. and that is what it means to be in the arena. >> representative alexandria ocasio-cortez gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour starts now. 11th hour starts now good evening, day 393 of the biden administration. president biden has, again, rejected executive privilege claim from donald trump. the movement clears the way for january six committee to see even more documents that trump had try to keep it in. the president has ordered a national archives to turn over white house visitor logs. those logs should

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