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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  February 11, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PST

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keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law. >> well, well, well, it was the man in the cabinet's hat. >> i won't talk about the fact that people have to flush their toilets 15 times. >> tonight, new reporting that donald trump took material clearly marked as classified out of the white house, new questions about an unexplained gap in white house for locks, and why donald trump's reported use of the white house toilet to flush documents could be a big problem in an investigation. >> a republicans desperate attempt survived after trump endorsed primary opponent. how fox news channel is planning to do for the truck protests but they did for the tea party. >> it's not just about canada now. >> bringing the freedom convoy to the u.s. of a. >> and the big take away from leicester holt's exclusive interview with president biden. all in starts right now. >> should children be required to wear masks in schools?
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>> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. >> -- there were 18 minutes of tape missing. that was from a conversation three days after the break in at watergate. nixon tried to get the secretary for the mistake, but the attempt to cover up is ultimately what led to his downfall. we also saw a bizarre reversal of the cliché, during hillary clinton's bid for president. she was accused of cover-up. an accusation that became a
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refrain at trump's rallies. the thing is, the underlying crime that she was supposedly covering up, had never happened. it was this vague indication of wrongdoing. but during the campaign and presidency of donald trump, it was different of course. trump's prairies and lawlessness happened out in the open. which bizarrely acted as an excuse as though the brazenness was itself a form of scandal and insulation. if you think of trump's famous russia if you're listening moment in the summer of 2016 when he called on a foreign adversary to illegally hack hillary clinton's emails. that happened during the live press conference in florida. back in september 2019, it was the white house itself that release the notes from these -- so-called perfect phone call with ukrainian president where trump pressured him to dig up dirt on the bidens. and when trump realized the transcript might not be so perfect after all, his defense was to do the same thing again, only this time in public.
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>> mister president, what exactly did you hope zelensky would do about the biden after you did the phone call? >> well i would think that if they were honest about it, and some major investigation into the bidens. it's a very simple answer. they should investigate the bidens because how does that company that is nearly four month. by the way likewise, china should start an investigation into the bidens. because what happened to china is just about as bad with ukraine >> again, you see what he's doing there, right, he was caught in this phone call doing something untoward. and his first instinct was to reverse engineer a kind of brazenness about it by going in front of the cameras and then doing the crimes in public. it's like when he pressured mike pence to help commit a coup on twitter. and when that was doomed to
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fail, he rolled up an angry mob. again, all on camera. but, as we've learned over the years and as we are learning more now, not all of trump's malfeasance was committed out in the open. apparently, there are many cover ups. like when trump instructed his personal lawyer to pitch the homeland of security on the government seizing the voting machines as part of an attempt to steal the election. saying giuliani kept his hands clean. politico just published emails with giuliani along with michael flynn were also working with others behind the scenes on a clandestine plot to seize the voting machines. again, that stuff wasn't being done out in public. it's a cool even -- every day, we are learning more about the efforts that trump and his team took to destroy evidence. about as clear an example of a cover-up as you could hope to
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get. it all started with trump's much reported habit of ripping up documents which is unclear violation of the presidential records act. now the records received by the national archives had to be taped back together, and that's if they arrived at all because some records were so destroyed, completely. put into burn bags, which is a flagrant violation of the act. others were hidden away in the ex presidents private residence in florida, including, it turns, out of those that were marked classified. in including some mock top secret. it's written across the top, it looks a lot like a dozen movies. we now know the national archives us the department of justice to investigate the practices. but we learned about another way that the ex president was destroying the documents. it might answer a lot of the mysteries of the trump and ministration. you see, many of his campaigns, trump it was a show man at
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heart in a practice that can only be described as a standup routine. he would have material. the motivation behind as dick was obvious. he used to refer a winter binds that cause cancer because the he was feuding with a wind farm. there was one particular if the never really made much sense. it was a riff about environmentally friendly showers and toilets that use less water. the crowd absolutely loved it. he went back to it again and again. just listen. >> so, i hate to say the three things, it's a shower, it's a sink, and you know the third element? i don't say, because every time i say, it that's the only talk about that one. because it's gross to talk about. so i won't talk about the fact that people have to flush their toilets 15 times. i will not talk about it. sinks, showers, and what goes
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with the sink in a shower? >> ten times, right? not me. not me, of course? people are flushing toilets ten times, 15 times, as opposed to once. we won't talk about toilets, but you know that's -- ten, 15 -- but we don't talk about that. because i've said this three or four times, they only subject they talk about his toilets. >> first of all, credit where, do that was a funny bet. second of all, flushing toilets ten, 15, times. not three times, not four times, ten or 15 times. you look at it and think, is the guy we'll? is something going on? should he get that checked out? what is he talking about? no one can figure out what trump was talking about. 15 times? today, we might have an answer. according to a new nugget by the new york times's haberman book, while president trump was in the office, stuff in the
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white house residence periodically discovered words of printed paper popping a toilet. and believe the president had flush pieces of paper. at least, according to this report, the commander of chief, donald j trump, was personally flushing documents down the toilet, ripping them up, flushing them down the toilet. at the very least 10 to 15 flushest arts to make some sense. i mean, i've never disposed of documents that way, but i could imagine, it could be awhile. we should note that trump has denied the allegations, for once that it's worth. he's been from twitter. quote, another fixture, that i flesh papers and documents found of white house toilet, it's categorically untrue and simply made up by a reporter in order to get publicity for mostly fictitious book. but it's been widely reported that trump has a habit of differing documents, ripping them up, destined for burn
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bags. even potentially flushing them. never leave anything in writing. and there is always, again, to go back to the brazenness, there's always this exculpatory air that hangs over him because he's so clearly such a moral idiot. who doesn't know what's right and what's wrong. there's something to scope a tory about the fact that he ripped everything up. he's, like it's all habit, a paper ripper. but flushing records down the toilet? he do that out of habit? just absent minded lee, there, 15 times? or even destroying them. okay, flagrantly unlawful the people weigh in the white house to people should understand. the guilty conscience and headed in that implies is so incredibly telling. ashley parker is the white house chief --
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of the washington post. she's been covering the national archives efforts to overturn trump documents. and luke broadwater has written for the new york times. they both join me now. let me start with you, ashley, just about the national archives. because a playing an interesting role here. clearly, they're not happy. they're not happy with the degree of compliance, which i should notice, my wife worked at the obama white house, it's not like -- it's not some law that no one ever in forces. lott white house takes this line extremely seriously. extremely. they do complaints trainings on this. there's a whole set of processes in place. what is the national archives finding out and whether they requesting as they go through their own documents? >> the national archives basically found out, they realize that there was some things that they would've expected on what --
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would have been turned over with the regular process is. for instance, what former president trump describes as the love letters between himself and kim jong-un. the letter that former president barack obama left him which is a tradition between presidents. you and your viewers might remember where trump used sharpie to alter the course of a hurricane to make it a -- conform with the path he wanted. so he realized this stuff was missing and they began asking questions and the first thing that happened, which we recorded, was they sent a team down to mar-a-lago which came back with 15 bucked is full of things, documents, things that were given to former president trump, that are not his to keep. that needed to go to the archives. that's what's started them on this process. >> there is also, i'm gonna come to you in a second, look, there's also reporting on some of the information is classified. perhaps even top secret. we're now getting into one of the grand ironies. the thing, the case, that was
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prosecuted against hillary clinton, to the extent that there was any exposure other than poor document retention policy, was that, there was classified information which she done and we should note here, as president, you can control classification, you can do which one with. that's not sure of ex presidents, correct? >> that's correct. as a president, you're right, you have broad latitude to declassify information. we are seeing that right now with the biden administration, they are declassifying documents about russia and ukraine and a strategic way. as a former president, you do not have that ability. but it's worth noting that these crimes and violations have a fairly high bar to prosecute, in part because they -- something the national archives has found out what to give to the january six committee, they realize a lot of these documents were wrapped, but you have to prove intent, and when
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you have someone like donald trump, who, for whatever reason, was, as we have been reporting, ripping everything, information, memos, articles from the washington post he didn't like, it's hard to reach that bar of it being nefarious. >> yeah, i think i'm just gonna editorialize, this is not using, it it's me saying it here, you're just reporting with the facts are, there is a kind of prophylactic nature to this. it's in line with the brazenness, which is the defense is always about intent. he actually called the election was stolen in georgia when he called raffensperger. he actually thought that it was corrupt, that he needed the voting machines. and he thought mike pence could do. it he actually thought the phone call with ukraine was fined. that he actually wanted russia to get to the bottom of hillary 's emails, that the intent is always, always the fall back. i don't know how much the flushing down the toilet's --
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extends to that. question, the question of missing call logs which seems like more than the oversight probably >> right, i actually think both of these stories are related. and i think it's getting out of the way that business was in conducted in the trump white house. -- get documents from the national archives, fight them all the way up to the supreme court, where donald trump tried to block more than 700 pages of documents for release. when we finally did get these documents, some of them were called logs. and they expected to see all of these calls that they had heard about between donald trump and love -- mike pence. donald trump and lawmakers. as he's trying to get them to overturn the election and storm
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the capital. what they got was a bunch of missing hours. where there was no documents or testimony of what had actually happened. it raises all these questions. the tremendous roadblock from the committee trying to piece together and account what happened that day. one thing is that donald trump was conducting a lot of business on his personal cell phone, on an aids phone. we have some -- people were passing phones back and forth and using each other's phones. we do not know exactly who is calling who, wood phones are being used. this makes the yeah, committee's i would just know one thing, investigation all the more difficult. john when you talk about the norms, vis-à-vis the presidents record. it's of the law, to. the presidents record is quite clear on this. it says, whoever willfully in
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unlawfully considers news mutilates, obliterates or destroys -- doesn't say flush down at all, epithets implied, or attempts to do so, with a ten to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, or book, paper, documentary, out of the thing, fouled or deposit it with any clerk officer of any court -- judicial officer, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned. intent is key, but there's definitely a pattern of concealment that you guys have been unearthing. thank you very much, luke broadwater, and ashley parker. all right, coming up, the question on everyone's minds. what's don trump's criminal exposure. what happens when a president, apparently, flashes documents on a toilet, or stashes classified records in his palm beach resort? we'll get to the bottom of the next.
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don't bleach their emails, or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law. >> and i think that you should be apologizing for, are the 33,000 emails that you deleted, and that you washed, and then the two boxes of emails and other things last week, that were taken from an office and are now missing. >> where are these servers? they're missing, where are they? what happened to hillary clinton's emails? 33,000 emails, gone. she just gone. >> and that was largely false. there were personal events that clinton did say, that were personal. but the fbi director came out and announced that there was no criminal wrongdoing on the part of hillary clinton or her campaign. on the other hand, we're now learning more about the potential criminality of donald trump. just this week, we got reporting of boxes of documents, him properly taking at to mar-a-lago, which may include
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classified documents, somewhere that even marked a stop secret. the reporting documents putin backs to be burned, and documents shredded and taken back together. and documents that were reportedly flushed down the toilet by trump himself, or at least that's with the staff and the white house thought when they encountered it in the toilet. yes, there's a spectrum of diligence or sloppiness, and then there's the willful consist in the destruction of documents. i'm not a lawyer, but it sure feels definitely in that latter category. we do have a lawyer tonight. george conway, we've been following developments for trump's white house for years. along with george marshall, founder and editor of talking points family. 's latest column, it's called, once again, drums defendants the brazenness of his crimes, and both join me now. george, i think you can probably attest to this. i was just a last back about how seriously white houses tend to take this stuff. they tend to be stuff full of lawyers, lawyers take complaints very seriously. people are very, very you, know, we'll kind of dotting the eye
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crossed his these presidential records. as a lawyer, what's your conclusion when you look at this constellation of facts that we are learning now? >> well, it just shows a remarkable disregard, and contempt for the rules that apply to everyone else. and that's, you know, that's a hallmark of donald trump. rules shouldn't apply to him. they don't apply to him if. they apply to him, it's unfair and grossly it's a political attack but the rule should always apply to someone else and they should lock her up, and that's just classic donald trump. now, the go-to with critical issues here, i think the point you raised earlier, and the point that ashley raced earlier about intense is an important one. but it's important to remember that the kind of intent is wired here show criminal violation, is in the same kind of intent it's required to show obstruction justice where you actually have to show the documents, if you destroy, them are material to investigation. here, you just have to show that there was intentional, willful destruction. documents that were required to be written, because they were in the files of the government. and that's -- you have to, you know, so
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basically that he didn't rip them off, he did flush them accidentally. on the other hand, you do have to show what was it that he was doing, or what's where these documents? it was the document and the toilet, god help anyone who need to go fish that out. and, on the other hand, you see a few -- i no wonder -- imagine it's probably a win when he tried to shred documents using a window once. >> that's how -- >> i mean, josh, you said this point in the colony wrote about. again, this is in maggie haberman this book, it's coming out in the fall. she had heard the same thing from staff, again and the resident. so i can stipulate, this is actually true. but some of it is. you have this definition we willful. like this sort of blanket excuse for his behavior always which is, like everything he
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does it's like you have to understand the guy is such a sociopath. he's such weirdo. he's so morally blind he doesn't know what he's doing. you can say that about whipping something up in flushing it down the toilet. >> well, look, it comes lack, it's not basic thing that we've seen with donald trump so many times. it's the habitual natural nature of his criminality, and affirmative defense four against each individual charged against him. now, you know, i think ashley's point at the beginning of this for segment, about you know, i know this is what lawyers are saying, that it's a high bar. but what else is that intent? i mean, this isn't a matter of like, you didn't file things right, or you didn't keep track of things or something like that. what is the explanation for why -- did he have, you know, some people have a thing where they eat paper. it's like a psychological condition. if you have that? was he just walking around tearing things up because he had some sort of neurosis or something? no, i mean, he's tearing up
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documents. what do we think is the intent? he doesn't want anybody else to see the documents. i mean, there is like no other explanation for that. and there is, i think there was the article in the post that, you know, broke the main part of this story. they quoted some unnamed people from trump's circle. what they said, you know, he wasn't trying to do anything wrong. this was just what he had picked up from being in private business, that he was used to discording documents. well, you know, that's not really a great defense. and there is a great -- some of us will remember, back in the 70s, there were these urban legends, you know, child raised by wolves, right? never acculturated to human ways, so they're a little off, right? and we've seen this with the trump family, not just donald trump, but his kids. like they weren't raced with the law. you can't expect law-abiding, since they were raised as criminals.
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it's almost like it's a disability they have or something like that. >> and this is, again, this is defense time and time again. if the combination of the brazenness, and the fact that you can't expect them to have normally -- but again, to me, we have lots of evidence of guilty conscience here, and that's what i think is so important. it's important to me about a lot of the stuff we we've learned. the destruction of documents as one part of it, george. but also like, when he wants dhs to seize the machines, it descends rudy to go to it. there's something there. that is someone who understands what he's doing. he's exactly what it looks like. and there is enough of that to demonstrate that the man, he is a guilty conscience, he's guilty, he knows what he's doing, george. >> look, he doesn't care about the law. he doesn't care about the rules, but he also doesn't want to get caught. and that's the thing about him. that's why you take the documents up to the residents, and that's why you may flush them down the toilet up there, because if you rip them off in
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the oval office, and leave them on the resolute desk, some functionaries and the company take that piece of the right to take them back together. and that goes back to the point that you're making, which is enough point that josh was making, again, the intent is to destroy the documents. and that's the only intent that's required. and [inaudible] there could be no question that people have told him, to that mister president. and they have to know the collecting trash and giving the stuff together. and if he's doing it some other way, so then it will take -- there's something going on there. and it needs to be investigated at minimum. >> in terms of a bar josh, we can't forget, this was a national pageant drama around hillary clinton's emails deletion, that involve the head of the fbi coming out and making an enormous announcement of whether criminal trials would proceed, and then making another announcement, later
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when a new batch of emails came up, probably 50 election. so the idea that, well, you know, it's just one of these things. it wasn't just one of those things back in 2016. i was there, i remember. >> yeah, you know, i almost hate if we are reducing it to, well, what was the standard with hillary? look, that was always, even at the worst possible interpretation of that, just totally different. if you go back to the presidential records at watergate law, because before this, there was some open question, like owns the records? maybe the president's personal property. so congress went on record, and say no, they belong to the american people. it is inconceivable, inconceivable that this law would have ever envision that was okay for the president to be chronically tearing up documents. it is impossible that that would be allowed. >> george conway, josh, thank you both. coming up, the price of disloyalty, why one republican congresswoman made the pilgrimage to stand in front of
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trump tower in a desperate plea to the maga crowd? that story, next.
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carolina and select their first republican woman to congress ever. her name is nancy mace. she got off that -- she dropped out of high school at age 17, she went on to earn her high school diploma. she graduated loud come loud from a storied institution. she was the school's first female to graduate from its core of cadets. and she represents a propulse district, it was represented by a democrat before her. so for her first term has been a rollercoaster as she tries to navigate representing the party of trump. for example, in the days after the january 6th insurrection, she's new to congress, by the way, maze voted against impeaching trump but was still openly critical of her parties leader. >> we were really trying hard
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to figure out how do we, how do we hold a president accountable that put all of our lives at whisk. this was a traumatic event for many members of congress, i believe in the days, weeks, and months to come, the learn more, the persistent. get >> a few weeks after making those comments are the danger of january six, mace was feuding with democratic congresswoman alexandra ocasio-cortez accusing her playing up the danger to make it seem worse than was. this fall, may's had a sort of interesting vote on the pro democracy side of the ledger's, only nine house republicans voted to hold former trump advisor steve bannon in contempt for refusing to cooperate with the january six committee. mrs. trying to carve out what i think is an impossible space. she's not a full maga sycophant, but she's not in the cheney kinzinger full never trumper. and what i sit on the show over and over, your either for democracy or your pro coup. and in trump's eyes, nancy mace was on the wrong side. so, yesterday, he endorsed her primary opponents in, quote,
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katie arrington is running against an absolutely terrible candidate, congresswoman nancy mace, who's remarks an attitude have been devastating for her community, and not at all representative of the republican party to which he has disloyal. i should note the woman he enjoys just resigned for her position at the pentagon and her security clearance was suspended during her probe of allegations that she released classified information. and because you cannot be pro democracy and beyond team trump, today, congresswoman rick mace tried to make things right with the boss. >> hey everyone, congresswoman nancy mace here. i'm in front of trump tower today and, i remember 2015 when president trump announced his run, i was one of his earliest supporters. i supported him again in 2020 because of policies i believed in. he brought american jobs back, he lowered our taxes, wages, and employment were better for every hardworking american in our country. he made america safer and he took on china directly. america was stronger all around
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the world. quite frankly, freedom and democracy were stronger all around the world. >> there's a lot there that's debatable or not even true, but as pathetic as that performances, i fear the congresswoman who will not be pathetic enough. kitty one catie edmondson is a reporter at the new york times. she wrote the article nancy mace called herself a new voice for the political party that she pivoted. she joins me now. she is to me of in a pretty unique position and has tried to carve out a fairly unique position though it's been pretty difficult, i think, what's your assessment? >> i think that's right, chris. keep in mind, i believe she was sworn into office maybe two, three days before january six. so she was a very near congresswoman when she witnessed the storming of the capital by the true pro trump forces. and she essentially figure out how is she going to respond.
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i don't pretend to have any special insight into what was going on inside her mind at the time, but i did interview heard the day after january 6th. and she said that she is appalled by what she witnessed and she thought it was going to be unnecessary inflection point for the party, that it was time to rebuild and that what happened at the capitol in the way the president trump had struck the attack on the capitol had essentially went out to his legacy, all the policies that he -- that she has supported. since then, i think it's important to point out the leaders of her party, and many of the ranking fouled members, moved away from that initial rage that they felt after january 6th to support president trump, or at the very least to try as hard as they possibly could not to talk about what happened that day. so i think that she found herself caught off guard as a new member of congress,
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genuinely outraged by what she experienced, and then suddenly finding herself kind of alone on an island thinking that other members of her party were going to make similar comments, that it was time to be billed. >> what struck me about that video -- so, trump has entered the primary and endorsed her opponent. that video with her outside trump tower, reminded me of the jeff sessions campaign in that primary in alabama where he had a situation which trump hated sessions because sessions had been insufficiently obedience in using the department of justice to donald trump's aunts. he held that grudge. substance is running in the republican primary in alabama where trump is popular and he keeps trying to go around saying, i love donald trump even though he doesn't like me. i love him, that's what matters. it's not -- it doesn't work that way. we nancy mace can cut those videos, this is the crux of the things. you cannot tell people how much you love donald trump in the republican primary if he's out there saying, i hate your guts.
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>> to your earlier point, chris, i think she's trying to find a middle ground here. what was interesting to me was what she did not see in the video. she didn't talk about a stolen election, she didn't talk about president trump's election integrity, at first, as he is framed him. she said, i supported his policies. and she used a lot of past tense, if you notice. and then she jumps very quickly into saying, i am the person who is going to be able to keep the seat in republican hands. come the midterms. she didn't actually stop to say any of the talking points that we currently have been hearing, that president trump really would've wanted to hear from her around a stolen election or that would happen on january 6th was fine, or carried out by patriots. so that omission was actually just as interesting to me as what she did say. >> that's a good point. it's gonna be a very interesting primary to watch in
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that district with trump now announcing himself as a test. catie edmondson, thanks so much. >> thank you, chris. >> ahead, how the convoy of trucks became the darling of the republican party as they dust off their old tea party playbook. we'll be right back. l be right back.
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>> thousands of people are still dying every day, every single day across america. as the omicron wave subsides, almost as quickly as it grows, local officials are starting to rollback mask mandates and other protective measures. you know, the federal government is keeping its recommendations in place. nbc nightly news anchor, lester holt, asked president biden about the discrepancy in an exclusive interview today. >> mister president, in the recent days, we've seen numerous governors from blue states rollback indoor mask requirements, essentially getting ahead of the federal government, the cdc. are those governors wrong?
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>> well, it's hard to say whether they're wrong. the science is saying now that masks work. masks make a difference. and there's a relationship -- i think there's only one governor going back immediately, and most of them are somewhere in february, end of february, march, april, they set a time limit. and i assume it has something to do with whether the omicron variant continues to dive, and fewer and fewer cases. because there is a relationship between the number of cases you have in your community, and the need to wear masks. >> you acknowledge, though, restlessness and leaders bowing to the political whims -- >> oh, i do. omicron and the variant, all the variants, have had a profound impact on the psyche of the american people. >> should children be required to wear masks in schools? >> well, look, when i got in office, only 46% of schools were open. now, 98% are open, and wearing a mask. what's happening is, every day that goes by, children are more protected. we're now on the verge of being able to have a shot for children under the age of seven.
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and young children. and so, the more protection i have, probably are gonna see less and less requirement to have the masks. >> are you afraid, though, that some cities where moving too quickly that loosen indoor mask mandates? >> you know, i committed that i would follow the science. the science says, put forward by the cdc, and the federal people, and i think it's probably premature, but it's a tough call. >> this pandemic has been going on for nearly two years now. the presidents absolutely right. it has a profound impact on the american psyche. almost everyone i think is sick of the pandemic. almost everyone wants to move on. i understand. i do. but let me just take this moment to share a little piece of friendly advice when it comes to really moving on from this pandemic. there is a fact about america. we are still woefully under boosted in this country. that is people who have gotten
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the booster shot after getting the vaccine. only 44% of the eligible population has gotten a third shot. and that's even though all the data shows that booster shots really helped prevent severe disease during this last wave, over and above just being vaccinated. i know there are people watching me right now they're not boosted. a lot of people told me things like i don't realize how important it is, or it's asked to go get it. i understand. i gotta say, if there is like one thing you could do right now, particularly with omicron wave which is fading, you're not gonna have this flood of people in the cds or drugstores. it really is the best way to prevent severe disease and mask death over getting vaccinated. for not vaccinated, go get vaccinated right away. but if you're vaccinated, have them boosted. please, if you haven't boosted, go get boosted.
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>> back in 2009, first day the administration when the tea party protest just came to spring. and fox news host, whose network was still there and balanced.
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-- encouraged, promoted, even intended that. >> get ready to team party. >> april 15, all across the country, citizens are standing up. >> the top of the box is full steam ahead. >> americans outraged over unfair tax -- >> how to get involved in the hundreds of tea party protests? >> people at -- >> taking the stand, citizens revolt. >> take a look at all the heroes here at covering the tea parties. >> a steep artist sweep the nation on tax day. we're there with total, fair network average. >> that's amazing. we're there with paramount coverage. truly incredible display of the unique role that won our network face and the american political life. for many years, fox news has been operating in this flatly propagandistic fashion. and we need to shape our political landscape. now, 13 years later, fox is rolling out the same playbook with the canadian import. for two weeks, canadian truck drivers and protesting against vaccine mandates.
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it was required to be vaccinated, or quarantined about you at you from the u.s.. and the protests are causing a ton of destruction. downtown ottawa, canada's capital city, is clocked with giant trucks that refused to move. truckers are blockading and important international crossing, the one we're like a quarter of u.s. navy trade goes over. that's the ambassador bridge, which connects windsor, ontario and detroit. and that's now in effect and supply chain for automakers, some of whom are shutting down operations in canada. the firm folks, not having their factories open. on fox news channel, the pampered and -- scramble the murder of a black lives matter protest shut down intersection. well, here they have found their next big thing. >> so, the trucker convoy and canada is pretty cool. >> it's pretty impressive. there is a convoy 12 miles long. >> it's pretty inspirational. >> canadian trucker convoy.
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>> spanning across canada from vancouver to ottawa. >> thousands of truckers assemble to vancouver this weekend to protest, and formed the freedom convoy. >> massive, freedom convoy. >> that massive trucker demonstration. >> canada's freedom convoy. >> freedom convoy. >> freedom convoy. >> freedom convoy. >> could there be an american version of this trucker convoy? >> one of this comes here, seriously, think about what the truckers strike would mean? >> it's not just about canada now. >> bringing the freedom convoy to the u.s. today. >> and i think recently about the idea of conceptual-ism, particularly in with the pandemic, has been on stock to stay throughout it. we have significantly lower vaccination rates, significantly more infections and deaths and our peer countries. and we have a right-wing media machine that has been driving before for spent a lot of that. steven marsh is a canadian journalist, author of the next civil war. dispatches from the american future, and he joins me now. are you surprised, stephen, to see fox news take up this canadian right wing cause? >> well, not really, because i think one of the things that's very clear to us here is that this is a kind of a spillover to american, political toxicity.
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and that one we are in fact seeing is with the police chief calls a sizeable element of u. s. involvement in the ottawa blockade. so it's not surprising to me at all that america, you know, and people were the biggest supporters of this it's only 1000 people in canada, it is absolutely no support from any mainstream party here. the conservatives have told him to come home. doc ford, who was rockport's brother, is aggressively attacking their fundraising. so there's almost no support for it here at all and, where the support comes from is the united states. >> it's really fascinating. i saw that the conservatives politicians telling them it's time to pack up. doug ford going after. them i mean, that is a real difference. very stark difference. we're talking about, i mean, ted cruz, you've got like excuse talking about the patriotic canadian truckers. like, american republican
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politicians are running to embrace them. >> well, yeah. i mean, think, one of the things that america is a textbook country, a book, a country on the brink of civil war, and that is spilling over across our border. that's really what we see. is that toxic political american discourse, you know, coming here in a very, very horrible way. yeah, i mean, cruz is way more into this than any canadian conservative politician, that's for sure. >> yeah, i don't know, but i know that you wrote a bit about that. i truly hope we are. let me ask you this, the other irony here is, you've got 90% of canadian truckers who are vaccinated. you have had a much -- >> 85%. >> you got a much more successful public health response, you have just come metrics in terms of. deaths and cases there. the other irony is that here in the u.s., the trump supreme court did what the truckers wanted, and struck down the vaccine mandate. there is no convoy, there's no, you know, vaccine mandate to
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protest here, where there is one functioning in canada. >> this is a political theater, right? this is nothing to do with any policy. they're not gonna affect health care policy here, even modestly. you know, there are unrelated to the political -- like they're asking for the resignation of justin trudeau. it's not realistic. weather essentially right now doing is taking the city of ottawa hostage, you know, out of their frustrations with covid. and i mean, i couldn't be more sympathetic. i'm frustrated too. but, you know, essentially now, it has become a temper tantrum, which, you know, is simply ruining the lives of people who are trying to get to work and put their kits, but their kids to sleep. and everyone wants it to end. every day there are their, their message diminishes. they are getting less powerful by the day. >> that's interesting, so there's like a backlash happening there, in terms of domestic, political opinion about this. >> well, 60% of canadians found them inappropriate. discussed, i think, would be a
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really common reaction of this movement. i mean, it's not, it certainly does not have high approval rating, certainly not among conservatives. no, there is really, very, very little ground support for this. >> yeah, i mean, it's also a stark contrast i think there's a certain level of politeness and the national character, not necessarily -- >> well, i think it's actually, it's the structures. we don't -- we are not in at the same political situation. i mean, in my book, i do discuss like, how -- america is very dry tinder, like a single spark can set it off. you know, canada is really like, it doesn't have these problems as the united states. >> steven marsh, the book is called max civil war, thanks so much. that is all in on this thursday night. >> --
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>>, tonight into economics. but, you decided to talk about canada. >> what a great country. can i say how much of canada? i love canada, all of canadians. i love many things about the society. i love all different parts of t. we have much to discuss. >> fantastic. >> have a good night. >> bye. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. in just a few minutes we will have the latest for you on the stunning report that the boxes of records that donald trump took to his golf club when he left the white house may have contained classified top secret material. plus we will give you lester holt's exclusive interview with president biden, the president's first tv interview in months. there is a lot to go tonight. let's jump right in. i want to start right now with gelatin. gelatin. gelatin is the jiggly wiggly stuff that makes your jello and gummy candy and a whole lot of


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