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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  November 16, 2021 10:00am-11:00am PST

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follow-up talks. we hope to have him on soon. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchel reports." check us out online. chuck todd with ""mtp daily"" starts right now. >> if it's tuesday, president biden hits the ground in new hampshire, trying to sell infrastructure as democrats try to make up for lost time and turn the tide on a souring political environment. plus, the jury is deliberating in the kyle rittenhouse trial, determining the fate of the armed teenager who shot three people, killed two of them in kenosha. later, the coronavirus pandemic, cases show signs of potentially a new surge across the u.s. as winter approaches. welcome to "meet the press
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daily". i'm chuck todd. president biden is on his way to new hampshire, the farthest away he's travel in the some time as he kicks off an administration effort to tout the $1.2 billion infrastructure bill. i should say the farthest he's traveled domestically. for the white house, whether they want an acknowledge it or not, the big achievement and celebration comes with a big reality check -- they still have a ton of problems, statering with covid. health officials are bracing for what, loose like another winter surge in hospitalizations. all the numbers moving in the wrong direction. the rate of infection spiked 17% in just the last week. we warned about this a week ago, and sadly it has only gotten worse. there's also the three-headed economic monster. rising prices have effectively wiped out a year of wage gains for everyday workers. then there's the biden agenda, where the build back better
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pitch has run into major problems, in part because moderate democrats are worried about the current environment and are starting to worry whether $2 trillion in spending could spark more perceived inflationary measures. all this comes as voters themselves are signaling in polls and elections that they don't have a lot of faith in the democratic party's ability to govern. they may not trust the republicans, but it's not like they're over there with the democrats, and that's a major problem. because a lot of the individual pieces of the democratic party's agenda is individually popular, but the party's ability, the party overall, not so much. adding to problems for the democrats, leader at the national level have raced to embrace a more progressive flavor of politics. it's arguably why democrats lost house seats in 2020 and got hammered in last month's elections.
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bottom line, as biden prepares to make remarks in new hampshire, democratic leaders have some hard questions to ask themselves. did they wait too long on the infrastructure bill? are they being realistic with which parts of the build back better can and can't pass through congress? where the president and his party go from here is where we're beginning the show today. josh isle toing the president ahead of his infrastructure speech in woodstock, new hampshire. also with us, kelly o'donnell and garrett haake. josh, we've seen this is the -- i guess stop two if you count the baltimore stop, but it's certain will i the first stop after the official signing. is this going to be at least a weekly thing where we see joe biden on the road selling? i know that they're going to send around cabinet secretaries, and that might get some decent local news coverage, but you and i both know there's a lot more of a footprint that comes with
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coverage when a president shows up. is this the first of what will be almost weekly events for him? >> reporter: it is, chuck, and the white house very much knows that where president biden goes cameras follow and that they can use that to try to build up some more public attention on this, which is why we'll see the president just after he's in new hampshire today in michigan tomorrow once again touting this infrastructure bill, how it's going to move ahead the country on electric vehicles and other types of clean technology. the white house has been so eager for months now, chuck, to move this past the process-y washington stuff of moderates versus progressives, and what is joe manchin thinking and reconciliation, and move this to stuff that is tangible that people can really understand, things like the 81-year-old bridge here in woodstock that's been sitting on a list for almost a decade of red list projects, structurally deficient, in bad need of repair
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that now according to authorities will be rehabilitated on a much faster time line as a result of all these federal dollars. but the challenge is, politicians like to talk about infrastructure projects being shovel ready. the reality is it doesn't always work that way. the funding in this infrastructure deal for infrastructure and transportation spread over five years. here in new hampshire they work off of ten-year sort of the master schemes for their transportation projects, so even though the white house is so eager for people to start feeling the tangible results particularly ahead of the midterms the real question is, will any of this take effect immediately, soon enough to break through the other economic concerns people have about inflation and rising costs such as gas prices? >> josh, i'm serious, do you see any semiofficial campaign activity? do you see democratic groups or republican groups trying to organize around the event itself today?
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>> reporter: we did see one billboard truck supporting president biden and his infrastructure deal, but i have to tell you, we're in a town of about 1,500 people. the only real sign of political activity has been opposition, including a small group of pro-trump protesters who are chanting, let's go brandon. they have been driving past us. they've got their signs and flags out. they're waiting to give a counterpunch to president biden while he's on the ground today. >> well, there are a lot of people in new hampshire with experience at getting a crowd even to a very small town considering that state's history with presidential events. but any way, josh lederman getting us start in the new hampshire. thanks very much. let me move over to the washington side of things. and kelly, i know you're doing plenty of reporting on sort of the reality check inside the white house. look, yesterday that event hit, i'll be honest, it felt like --
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it just felt like an event out of time. that event might have been impactful in august or september or october. it feels more like an epilogue to the ending of what's going to -- might not be a good story for democrats in 2022. >> well, certainly the white house is trying to capture whatever it can by saying this signing ceremony is a way that democrats and republicans came together for a bit of the pomp and ceremony on the south lawn, so they're going to true to use it. certainly they have heard the criticism, and it has been plenty loud that it could have moved more swiftly and they could have had more political benefit if they had action earlier. will they take those lessons into the negotiations happening on capitol hill this weekend into the next phase of the chapter on the president's agenda? we'll have to see if that real world reaction has any impact in washington. certainly the white house is trying to react to some of the things people are feeling.
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they just got a statement from brian deese, the chair of the president's economic council talk about retail sales going up as a sign of increased demand for goods and services and restaurants at a time when we know there are concerns about supply chain and also talking about how some of the big retailers are trying to reassure customers there will be goods on store she wills throughout the holiday season when they want to do some buying. also the white house pointing at covid as one of the reasons there are these economic impacts like inflation that has affected the supply chain and so forth. so they're trying to be in the moment more responsive to the economic pains people with feeling, but at the same time keeping a little bit of distance saying it's about covid. there is actually economic activity out there. and they're also arguing that the president's agenda, the law just signed and the one still in the works in the soup here in washington, could be able to bring about jobs and more
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spending power for consumers. of course there's other side of that about the next phase of the agenda, and will it increase concerns about inflation. so there's a lot of concern about being responsive here at the white house and the timing may be something that critics would say, the pace of it still necessarily isn't as quick as some democrats who have elections to run would like. >> i'm old enough, kelly, to remember when a soup mention at the white house was done in good fun. we'd be talk about sara that's favorite white house soup of the day. but i like the soup metaphor. i'm going to use it with garrett. garrett, let's talk about the soup as kelly o'donnell just put it about build back better. number one, it seems as if -- let's use the soup metaphor -- nancy pelosi is throwing in a whole bunch of ingredients that the senate is going to end up taking out system is plan still they're going to go ahead and do exactly what progressives said
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they wouldn't let themselves do, which is vote on a bill that's never going to become law? >> reporter: i think that's entirely possible. what we're waiting on now is the cbo score. that will be the next marker before this bill can get a house vote, likely before the end of this week. it seems certain in the senate that soup will be put through a screen and all the good stuff in the view of some progressives might come out of it. you could see the family leave portion of it potentially coming back out. remember, that was something that was left out of the frame work, added back in on the house side, but might need to joe manchin buzzsaw on the senate side. any immigration provisions that go in might be removed by the house parliamentarian. but on the house side, they're just ready to event mo. they have held on to this hot potato too long. they understand that. they've got to pass it. the speaker said they will pass this thing before they go home for thanksgiving and then the senate is going to do what it needs to do. listening to joe manchin i don't see someone that's in any hurry
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to vote on any version of this bill. he's still waiting on the cbo score, and then perhaps he'll have another set of issues he'll want to bring to the fore. pretty unable to move him when we doesn't want to be moved. >> i want to apply -- we've got schumer and manchin. i know you were around for both of these. let me play that sound and unpack it here on the other side. >> if we want to create more jobs, fight inflation, if we want to help families lower costs, the best thing we can do is pass build back better. let me repeat that. want to fight inflation, support build back better. >> senator, do you believe the argument the bbb bill will fight inflation? >> i haven't heard any specifics on that one. they say it's going to lower? >> they say it's going to lower inflation. >> i'll have to check on that
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one. >> that seems to be a risky situation. that's what the spin was to me on sunday. build back better will have tools to help fight inflation. that isn't -- jason furman, one economist, said the way it's structured could have an impact on inflation upwardly for a while until it pays for itself after its finishes, so it seems to be a dangerous piece of spin, because the cbo could end up showing that not be the case and plenty of other economic analysts. is schumer comfortable making this pitch? >> reporter: chuck, you have to squint pretty hard at bbb to see it doing anything that would lower inflation in the short-term. the argument that some congressional democrats will make is that the child care provisions for example could eventually lower the cost of child care. the prescription drug provisions would lower the cost of prescription drugs and those are
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things you can see cut down on inflation eventually. they have a stronger argument when they say the infrastructure bill that the president just signed might help the inflation. liberal democrat rob portman on the white house lawn yesterday. when i was sitting in for you yesterday, pete buttigieg made the same argument to me that the infrastructure bill could alleviate the bottlenecks that have led to the rise in consumer products but if you start saying bbb is the solution to a consumer problem, raising things it's not designed to deliver on something like that, at least not any time soon. >> yeah, just seems like a risky thing. if you're going to convince people to jump on what is a politically risky thing to do, and you're doing that, boy, that's tough. garrett, very quickly, we've got another house democratic retirement, and somebody who's, you know, got a lot of sway inside that conference. jackie spear. she was a big-time staffer
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before she even became an elected member. those that are familiar with the infamous massacre of the -- jones massacre. >> guyana. >> she is a survivor of that. but that's a big psychological blow, is it not? >> i think it probably is, likewise with john yard mouth. you have members from safe districts who enjoyed long careers in congress, and the privileges of power in the majority. does not speak well about the confidence they have about not being sent back to the majority, which in the house is a real drag. spears' seat was not going to be threatened and yarmouth's set was not going to be threatened. they said it wasn't not being in the majority, but it's something others perhaps looking over their shoulders will be thinking at as well. >> this stuff gets contagious.
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kelly, garrett, josh before that, thanks for getting us started. coming up next -- plus, whether democrats in washington lost touch with her constituents. and later, some troubling military moves from moscow. first amassing troops on the border of ukraine again, now perhaps setting off an arms race in space with what the u.s. is calling a reckless and destructive missile test which also could be connected to their shenanigans about border of ukraine. you're watching "meet the press daily." like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ $0 copays on primary care visits. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ and with unitedhealthcare, you get access to medicare advantage's largest provider network. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ most plans even have a $0 premium. so go ahead. take advantage now. ♪ wow! ♪
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we're back. as we mentioned the rm road ahead for democrats is uncertain, especially true when it comes to the fate of biden's build back better pact. chuck schumer claims it's going to fight inflation. joe manchin isn't so sure. wants to wait for the cbo score. pelosi told members they'll not
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leave washington without passing it. joined now by a top lawmaker who find himself at the center of the act today, he's a member of the congressional black caucus leadership, and he's also vice chair of the congressional progressive caucus, joe neguse, a democrat from colorado representing bowleder and then some. good to see you, sir. >> good to see you, chuck. >> let me start with where we're headed on a vote on build back better in the house. seems three months ago whether you were in a swing district or a safer seat, there weren't many house members that wonted vote on a bill that was not going to be able to pass the senate. now it appears you're going to vote on a bill that will change dramatically in the senate. why are you comfortable with that situation today and you weren't three months ago? >> my sense is the bill we'll vote on this week, we'll begin debate on that tomorrow s
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largely consistent with the frame work that the president negotiated several weeks ago with all of the different par the is and the vast majority we expect ultimately gets signed into law, whether it's the provisions of health-care costs, child care, a wide variety of other investments in housing. at the end of the day, we expect that bill will get across the finish line. as you said, obviously there are differing views in the house democratic caucus and senate democratic caucus about different pieces of the bill, but overall we feel pretty good about the build back better act. >> i understand you want to paper over, we're going to agree on 85%, but the 15% or 10% is pretty significant. paid leave, it's in one bill, likely won't be in any other. how comfortable are you going to be explaining that to your constituents? >> look, i think legislating is tough, right, chuck? it's complex. it can be a bit convoluted.
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we are a big ten caucus and a big ten party and have a robust debate on beliefs and policy on infrastructure, that includes some of the items that you mentioned i have every expectation at the end of the day, the bill we pass will be transformational and include a lot of investments important for the american people. chuck, you are a father like me. i know. my wife and i have a 3-year-old daughter, and we're blessed enough to be able the send her to preschool. not every family is lucky enough to do the same. under the build back better act, universal pre-k will be for everyone in the country. i'm excited about about the bill and momentum building. >> you have an interesting district. it's not as if some people know the history of colorado's second congressional district. it's not just boulder.
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you have college towns, you also are rural parts that are quite conservative. not enough to make it a swing district, but enough for you to get a taste of the polarized dynamic. are you concerned the democratic party is perceived as too far left for the middle of the road voter. >> >> i'm not. the house democratic caucus and party more broadly is united by a shared set of values and those were on display yesterday by virtue of the bill signed yesterday. you're welcome to come visit any i'm. the beast skiing in the united states, as well as more parts of our state. in cans with my constituents they want us to do our part here in washington to deliver results for them. and i can think of no better example of that than vice president biden, house democrats and senate democrats is a few
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republicans delivering on infrastructure. >> i was curious if you looked at what happened in virginia and thought, wait a minute, there's a whole bunch of us colorado democrats who think this state's blue forever. is virginia, should it be a wakeup call that, hey, just because it's trending blue, there's still a strong independent voter that can bite back here? >> as you know, chuck, most voters are unaffiliated. it's the largest affiliation, so to speak. we have a lot of similarities with virginia. the re-election two weeks ago is a reminder we've got to take seriously our -- what we are doing to help their daily lives and try to make your communities a better place. fundamentally that's the job. that's what we're up to here in
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washington. i think sometimes that can get lost in translation, and it's important for us to find a way to cut through the noise. our governor, who is widely popular will do that. he was here yesterday with the president and with us in congress to be apart of the infrastructure signing ceremony as well. >> do you think it's enough to say when it comes to inflation, there's not enough that can be done unless you do things dramatically, raise taxes, raise interest rates, things like that. do you feel like there's a lever that can be pulled here to deal with this inflation issue, or not? >> i think that's a fair question, chuck. my sense is that, you know, the tools that would have to most dramatic or pronounced effect are tools that are at the federal reserve's disposal. at the end of the day, decisions on interest rates are going to have far more pronounced impact
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than any particular piece of legislation that congress might pursue, and the administration is looking at short-term solutions, alleviating the supply chain challenges is an important one. all that being said, i do think americans fundamentally care about congress stepping in and addressing high costs for the goods and products and services they're using every day. build back better will cut costs for prescriptions, child care, health-care, home care, for a wide swath of the economy, so i'm excited to do that, and i think it will resonate with the american people. >> congressman joe neguse, democrat from, like i said, you can't just say boulder kor, colorado, anymore. the district is bigger and more divorce than it used to be. >> bigger than the state of the new jersey, chuck. >> it's an excellent point. again, it is not just the
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boulder seat anymore. any way, thank you, sir. coming up. president biden meets for the first time with president xi jinping as -- between our two counties are intensifying. seems like they rhetorically got along, at least with guardrails. you're watching "meet the press daily". ily" inflammation: time for ache and burn! over the counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. inflammation: those'll probably pass by me! xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. inflammation: xiidra? no! it can provide lasting relief. xiidra is the only fda-approved non-steroid treatment specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each eye, twice a day. don't use if you're allergic to xiidra. common side effects, include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. after using xiidra, wait fifteen minutes before reinserting contacts. talk to an eye doctor about xiidra.
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china and the united states, to ensure that the competition between our countries does not veer into conflict, whether intended or unintended. >> the white house says president biden's first meeting with president xi jinping as commander in chief did not yield any breakthroughs. biden voiced concerns about human rights violations as well as actions against taiwan. according to chinese media, xi warns biden the u.s. was playing with fire with regards to taiwan. i'm joined by gory lock. he sevened as ambassador to china under president obama. ambassador, it seems as if after what was frankly a couple of really bad meetings on the staff level, minister level, however you want to describe it, that this was a necessary tonic,
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because what i noticed is both sides seem to agree that they agree that they need to be respectful guardrails. to me that tells you how fraught the relationship was going in. is that what you saw? >> well, this was a very necessary meeting of the two leader of two most powerful countries in the world and the two largest economies, and it was a good frank exchange. each side had to get their key points out of the way, basically, and in some ways to cater to and to address their own domestic audiences. but having done that, now the work begins in terms of trying to move the relationship forward in a very cooperative way, because despite our deep-seated differences on trade, humors, intellectual property and some of the military actions by china, there are incredible opportunities for cooperation
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and in fact a necessity for cooperation, whether it's climate change, halting the proliferation of nuclear weapons in north korea, iran, fighting global terrorism. but also just trying to revive our two economies because our economies and jobs in america so much depend on trade with china and vice versa. >> this inflation issue is a global issue. we know this. this isn't just an issue for us. you understand the geopolitical nature of the relationship with china. you were at commerce and understand why tariffs are used every now and then. there are some people who would argue that if the president lowered the tariffs on china on products coming out of china, even temporarily, that it could actually have an impact in a good way on slowing inflation. is that a -- is that an idea that would pan out, in your view? >> i'm sure that the biden administration is going to be
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pursuing that in terms of further talks at the staff level. clearly the trump tariffs are hurting american consumers and american households and american businesses, because these tariffs were actually paid for by the american company purchasing that product. it's not a tax on china. but the manufacturer that's buying raw materials from china, the targets of the world, the costcos, the home depots, the walmarts, are paying more when they bring these goods into the united states and passing it on to the consumer. the average american household is paying $600 to $800 more per year because of these trump tariffs and obviously getting rid of those would help lower the cost of everyday goods whether it's clothes, shoes, tools, toys, et cetera. but i don't think the biden administration is going to
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unilaterally remove these tariffs until the chinese really address some of the fundamental concerns that american companies and the american policymakers have long had with china. they're unfair trade practices, violation of international rules. that ultimately hurts american companies and american workers more than this hopefully temporary increase in the cost of goods. >> ambassador, you really describe -- you made -- you're description of what you call the trump tariffs you make a compelling case this could have a huge impact when it comes to the consumer pocketbooks and inflation. you know, is there an argument to be made of doing it short-term regardless of whether the chinese change their behavior and then slapping them back on, essentially, in six months? >> well, i wouldn't be surprised if the biden administration and some of the policymakers and aides and those who are involved in the negotiations are going to
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be pursuing that. it could be a temporary suspension of some of these tariffs with the condition that they'll go back on if china does not address some of the fundamental concerns that not just american companies and american workers have, but companies all around the world, which is why the trump strategy of only america putting tariffs on chinese goods backfired and actually benefitted the companies and workers of other countries, because -- any way, united states going alone actually hurt american consumers and american businesses. >> no, it's an interesting way you described it, and i'm guessing if folks are listening, you may hear more, folks, reminding people who these trump tariffs have done to the cost of some goods. let me ask you about something else that didn't come up in this
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meeting that some on the american side feared would. president xi did not invite president biden to the beijing olympics. obviously he knows what's coming. maybe they knew this, like, don't ask for something you're not going to get. what is the distinction in your mind, between a diplomatic boycott and, you know, where we are sending our athletes, which is i guess what we're going to do -- why do you believe that sends a message, and do you think it can be effective? >> i think we should be sending our athletes, and who knows, our athletes have different ways of expressing their views. we're seeing that in terms of cottage sports, professional sports, and so forth. and so i think having american athletes there in china on the world stage is one way also for us to reenforce our values, our commitment the freedom, democracy, human rights. i think that engagement is really good. >> former ambassador gary locke, also former governor of washington state as well as the
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former commerce secretary. nice long resume that makes your views quite interesting, and i think quite relevant to a lot of our viewers. thanks for coming on and sharing them. >> many i pleasure. coming up, an update from outside the courtroom as the jury deliberates on the fate of kyle rittenhouse. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... keeping crews connected as they help build communities... or providing patients the care they need, even at home. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and facebook advertising, on us. network. support. value. no trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? you got it.
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welcome back. turning now to kenosha, wisconsin, where the jury's currently deliberating on the charges against kyle rittenhouse. their task, deliver a verdict on the five charges against rittenhouse that are still alive here, including multiple count of first-degree homicide. rittenhouse first charges last year after killing two protester and injuring a third during unrest last august. protests broke out after jacob blake was shot by a white police officer. jacob blake, then 17 years old was armed with an ar 15 rifle.
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alison barbara has been following the trial from kenosha. we're all going to know when the jury finishes, whether it's today, tomorrow, the next day. i think that's hard for us to crawl inside the head of the folks. but i'm curious the atmosphere outside. what are you seeing? what are folks doing? and, you know, how tense is it? >> yeah, i mean, you can hear a little bit of the protests that's gathered outside the courthouse outside my shoulder. this is the largest group of protesters we've seen down at this courthouse since the case began. since the trial there's been one or two people there every day, but otherwise it doesn't get to be a big group. even here now you have probably less than 20 people out right now. in terms of the atmosphere here in kenosha, i have been describing it as a quiet tension.
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because when we talk to people, they say they are worried regardless of what the outcome is they could see violence after this. governor of this state thinks there's some sort of potential for that because he's activated 500 members of the national guard. they are not in kenosha, they're on stand by, but can come in if local authorities ask them for help. at this point there doesn't seem to be anything that would lead to that, at least not right now, and the police, local authorities say they don't have plans at this point for road closures because they have not seen the need for that just yet. but i mean, this is an intense case, it is a complicated case. we lost -- the judge dropped a charge yesterday, but you still have five felonies and on count four and five, which relate to the shooting op anthony huber who died and gaige grosskreutz, there are two lesser counts the jury can consider if they don't
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reach a consensus on the first charge. they are taking a lunch break now we are told. the judge says he plans to let them go as long as they want. chuck. >> ellison barber on the ground. up next, with covid cases on the rise across the country yet again, a big announcement that has the potential to shake the course of the pandemic in some of the nation's poorest countries a covid pill. you're watching "meet the press daily". (calls dog) buttercup... (whines) ♪♪ ♪ ohh ohh ♪ wow... that's so nice! is that a photo of tepechitlan? yeah! the gift of ancestry®, is a walk through your history. do you remember who this is? it's a gift that surprises you, moves you, and bonds you. ...papa? i can see the nose and everything. she was the original strong woman. i know.
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welcome back. pfizer has reached a new agreement that could impact more than half the world's population a deal reached with the u.n. back nonprofit, pfizer will allow 95 low and middle-income countries to make and sell its new anti-viral covid-19 pill. the announcement came this morning and is a sharp turn from how pfizer sold and distributed its covid vaccine. trial data shows the pill does cut hospitalizations and deaths by 80% when taken soon after covid-19 diagnose. study participants were unvaccinated and at high risk for developing severe illness making the pill a game changer for some of the poor interest unvaccinated countries. this is good neez for you an unrelents pandemic. lockdowns are back in austria and netherlands while a spike in eastern europe threatens to fill morgues thanks to the authoritarian nature of some of those countries, the propaganda,
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and the distrust they've created when it comes to the vaccine. now cases are up nationwide at home. increased by 17% in the last week alone. up next, russia takes its provocations against the west to new heights with a missile test in space, which u.s. officials condemned as reckless and dangerous. you're watching "meet the press daily". i'll be eating a buffalo chicken panini with extra hot sauce. tonight, i'll be eating salmon sushi with a japanese jiggly cheesecake. (doorbell rings) jolly good. fire. (horse neighing) elton: nas? yeah? spare a pound? what? you know, bones, shillings, lolly? lolly? bangers and mash? i'm... i'm sorry? i don't have any money. you don't look broke. elton: my rocket is skint! when you hear, you don't look broke. cough cough sneeze sneeze. [ sneezing ] it's time for, plop plop fizz fizz. alka seltzer plus cold relief.
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welcome back. the u.s. and its allies are sending an alarm this week about russia's provocative moves both in europe and outer space. the secretary general is calling on russia to be more transparent about its intentions with the border of ukraine where russia has once again amassed hundreds of thousands of troops, with the worry they may be launching another invasion. yesterday russia acknowledged conducting a missile test in space. it successfully hit a satellite way missile from earth. the strike made 15,000 parts of space debris. they made space investigation have to take shelter. it raises new concerns about the weaponization of space. joining us now, the ambassador of ukraine, bill taylor. he is head of security.
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ambassador, i appreciate your time. i know the incident in space sort of feels like the shiny metal object here. what's happening on the border of ukraine feels like something we shouldn't be looking away from. how serious should the u.s. be taking this situation, and is this putin sabre rattling, or is this time different? >> that's a great question, because you're right, we've heard this rattle of the sabre before, even this year in march and april, he amassed 100,000 troops on the ukranian border, as he has done again this time. but that's not the only thing. the reason we should take it seriously, in response to your question, is that this is a part of a pattern. this is a part of a series of events of actions that the kremlin has taken not just against ukraine, not just against europe but against the
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west. we've talked about the military threats. we know that the kremlin, that mr. putin has invaded its neighbor, ukraine. we know that the energy weapon is now a real one and threatens to be a greater weapon against europe because of this pipeline that the russians have now built under the baltic sea into germany. the migrant crisis is just another battlefield, if you will, on this. there have been cyberattacks. so the range of provocative actions, yes, the strike against the satellite is the most recent, but it's not the only one. >> look, ukraine is not a member of nato. we know that.
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do you get the sense that if russia invades the rest of ukraine that the u.s. would remain pat or they would push back? >> i think they would push back. probably not militarily, because as you say, ukraine is not a member of nato, so the joint commitment to respond to an ally does not apply to ukraine. however, there are a lot of things, a lot of efforts, a lot of pressure that the nato allies can place on russia in response to that kind of aggression that you talk about. number one, in anticipation, trying to forestall such an invasion is really important. and nato allies have been doing that. nato allies have been putting additional security systems to ukraine. there have been weapons provided, there has been military assistance. that's number one. but also the nato allies have been clear that should there be
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additional aggression, there will be additional sanctions. sanctions can hurt russia as they already have, and those sanctions that are in place are not the worst that can come. nato allies, european allies, united states have been considering carefully what kind of sanctions would go into place should the russians invade again. >> how is zalenski's political standing? that's what putin seems to be hoping, that he can overthrow the zalensky government. >> it turns out the ukranian people have been united by the threats from russia. not just the threats, the invasion of part of their territory, the annexation of crimea part of ukraine. the occupation in domas. that has unified ukranian
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people. and president zalinsky has recognized, after some hesitancy at the beginning, he has now recognized that that is a problem you're going to have to deal with. he's got the support of bringing people with him. he needs the support from the rest of the world, he needs the support from nato, the united states, european allies, but he can resist. he can certainly resist. his military is much stronger today than it was seven or eight years ago. his military has been fighting russians for over seven years now, coming up on eight years, and that's a strong military that ukranians have now and president zalensky is able -- it will be a very difficult fight if the russians decide to invade further. >> you brought up the migrant issue, and i'm glad you did, because this feels as if this is
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also putin pulling a string here, getting his ally, i guess would be a generous way of putting it, in belarus to create this border crisis with poland. are all the eastern european, western allied countries prepared to face this administration of the weapon crisis with putin and his allies? >> it is interesting. you see the nato allies who are supporting one of their nato allies, poland, and another nato ally, lithuania, as they defend themselves against this other attack from belarus and from mr. putin. as you say, it's clear that mr. putin and lukashenko are working together on this. this is another attack, really, on the west, on the nato allies in an attempt to split them. and europeans, they're allies
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are supporting poland and lithuania, as is the united states. >> what does support look like, though, and can it hold up? the people caught in the middle are going to be the victims here, and i know that folks are concerned about that as well. >> they are. these are real people that are suffering real deprivations. it's cold in the woods with no shelter and little food. this is a humanitarian issue. this shows the length that mr. putin and mr. lukashenko will go to to attack the west. this needs to be on humanitarian grounds, but to defend their borders is there as well. >> and they're both official nato allies. ambassador bill taylor, it was great to have you. i think you put everything that's going on into that larger perspective. none of this is happening in
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isolation. putin is pushing us on a number of fronts. anyway, ambassador, thank you, and thank you all for being with us this hour. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily" and msnbc will continue with katy tur. that's the first time i've gotten to say that in a while. hello, mom. >> as we come on the air, we are waiting for president biden to speak in woodstock, new hampshire. the president highlighting an 88-year-old bridge over the river. the structure since 2013 has been on the state's red list of bridges in poor condition. as you may have guessed, he's using that backdrop to highlight the serious danger of crumbling roads and bridges across the nation, and the hope he says is on the way thanks to the $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill he signed yesterday on the grounds of the white

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