tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC September 24, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
restructure bill comes up on monday, it's going to feel. that's kind of part of the plan at this point. the ultimate plan b into pat both pieces of legislation together. but that is going to take more time. anyway. we shall see. but if you do get the weekend off, don't take it for granted. not everybody does. that does it for us, for now. we'll see you again on monday. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> hi, rachel. we have congresswoman think be tingle coming up. she had quite a day, today. including a run in of sorts with marjorie taylor greene. she's got that to talk about, as well as the state of play of what you were just describing. she's going to tell us exactly what's going to happen on monday. she's going to take all the suspense out of it. way to tell us exactly what's going to happen. lawrence do you think you are a keen observer of the, things do you think that we are headed toward that bill definitely not passing on monday unless something crazy happens and then it comes back again in conjunction with the big bill later? >> i cannot use the word
definitely with anything that we are watching on capitol hill right now. this has never been done before which is the thing i have been saying from the start about it. it is remarkable to me how smoothly it went at the early stages. especially for, example, the budget resolution. every democrat voted for the 3.5 trillion-dollar budget resolution in the house and in the senate. they already voted for that number they are now saying maybe not that number the time to raise that was back when you cast your vote first vote on that number. they are tumbling up few order -- you're supposed to have that kind of confusion earlier in the bill, they are having it later in the. bill so i am a spectator, i am just here watching this one. i don't know what the next play is, we will see what happens.
>> that is kind of the way things go in life, if things start of going easier than expect, you're like, don't jinx, at discount last. usually means this doesn't last. whatever seems easy now you will pay for with unexpected complexity later. so maybe that is the natural order of things. >> so rachel, it turns out, the draft document you had last night was the real thing. >> yeah, we knew in advance. at least we believed that we had the legitimate, authentic draft of the audit report which have that hilarious, banana people like slapstick comedy result which was, oops, trump lost by even more than we thought. and we had that draft report yesterday -- we did know if they will change the draft report and make the final changes in that report. in the, and a held and they're trying to turn it into
something other than the own goal that it was. we will see. trump doing his big rally tomorrow in georgia, i'm not gonna watch it but i am wary that it might be even more crazy banana times than usual. >> i have a theory about why the cyber ninjas count came out the way it did. i'm going to launch into that in my opening remarks, here. and why they delivered no real variation in this tiny number difference between the official count and their count. i think it actually started -- i think we were headed toward this outcome starting in july because of a bunch of things that were surrounding the cyber ninjas and the cyber ninjas in chief, the guy running the whole thing. >> well now i want to get out of your way because i want to hear you say. that you go do that. bye. >> thank you rachel.
yesterday, the cyber ninjas in chief, a man named douglas logan, received a letter from the united states repression -- requesting his testimony at a hearing on october 7th. he is probably not going to show up for that hearing because it was a request and not a subpoena. but if, and when, it gets to the subpoena stage, he has to show up for a hearing in the house of representatives, the cyber ninjas-in-chief, would then have had to ask himself, is he going to tell the truth or is he going to risk perjury and going to prison in order to claim that donald trump actually won the presidential election and arizona where the cyber ninjas just finished what they called and audit of the election? and the time for the cyber ninjas and chief to begin, to begin asking himself, that question, was actually on july
14th when the house committee on oversight reform sent their first letter to douglas slogan. that first letter requested nine categories of documents related to cyber ninjas audit procedures, funding sources, communications regarding the audit with outside parties that may exert improper influence on the company. those documents, if turned over to congress, could create a very, very big problems for douglas logan. so, douglas logan did not comply with that request. so on august 27th, the committee sent another letter, and he still didn't comply. but since july, since july, douglas logan has been on notice that the federal government, through congress, wants to look very closely at his work and all of his homework on his so-called audit in arizona. so when the time finally came
today, douglas logan was unwilling to tell the big lie for donald trump. >> if we take a look at the presidential race, trump actually loses 261 votes from the official votes. biden gains in 99, and drug insulin loses votes. again, these are all very small numbers when we are talking about -- so we can say that the ballots that we were provided to count in the coliseum very accurately correlate with the official canvas numbers. >> imagine if he said anything else. imagine if he had said anything else. there is no reason to believe any of the numbers that the cyber ninjas just referred to because it was not an audit, he could've made up those numbers, there is every reason to believe, if the election numbers that arizona election
officials released last year -- but would if republicans control the house of representatives right now, there would not have been one letter sent to the cyber ninjas -in-chief demanding anything. would he have joined donald trump's big lie? in announcing the result of his work in arizona if he did not fear being put under oath in the house of representatives? we will never know. donald trump can't control the house of representatives not because republicans are not in control. donald trump is in control of most republican elected officials in this country, but leads him in control of nothing now in washington. so the cyber ninjas-in-chief may find himself under oath in washington at some point talking about what he did in arizona. that could be one reason why what he did in arizona today
would say the election results were completely accurate. the situation also leaves donald trump in control of nothing in the state of new york. in a newly unsealed court order required the trump organization to comply with subpoenas issued by new york state a journey general the t should james and that court order, says --
perhaps the cyber ninjas could help donald trump search for the documents the new york attorney general want to see. they are available. now in november, donald trump said, if we can audit the total votes cast, we will easily win arizona. in july, at the same time that the cyber ninjas were getting hit with their very first letter from the house oversight committee, donald trump said this about what the cyber ninjas were doing. when the real numbers are released, people will be shocked. and today, donald trump actually said nothing, not a word. but the people who type as lies for him produced a written statement in his name saying arizona must immediately decertify their 2020 presidential election results.
leading off our discussion tonight's democratic congressman eric swalwell from california, he has served as a house impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of donald trump and is the author of endgame, inside the impeachments of donald j trump. thank you very much for joining us tonight, we really appreciate it. i really want to get your reaction of what happened in arizona today. >> lawrence, they confirmed what fox news said on election night, that joe biden won arizona. also that the sunsets in the west, the giants are the best team in baseball, and my children are monsters. so it seems like they are aligned with the truth and the best thing we can do, lawrence, is to continue to shine a light on all of the fall that donald trump and the election denier party, the republicans, computer -- continue to put up. there >> there is a compelling development theory, rachel
refer to the washington post op-ed piece, today, what we are seeing in all of these recounts is kind of a rehearsal for the next presidential election. so that people will get accustomed to the idea that all votes have to be re-counted in order for donald trump to win. and, that there is no limit on the calendar about when recounts must be completed. >> that's right. that's why the january 6th commission is so important. that commission doesn't have the same pressures of time or the pressure of the senate that the impeachment managers had. so to the extent that they can show the world, not only what donald trump was doing to cause a violent insurrection, but the lies that he was putting out to stop the steal, as he called it, in the days leading up to the election. and then what he has done since has really reported a level set
for the country, what is at stake if we allow an election denier party to govern. this is an anti majority party, as well. they are anti majority in the senate, they are anti majority in the way that they have rigged and rushed through appointments to the supreme court. and they are now anti majority in the way they continue to put anti-voter legislation across the country. >> we have seen these four subpoenas issued to the first four for the january six committee. has the house learned about how to enforce their subpoenas more quickly? we saw incredible delays during the trump administration on that. >> the first lesson that i think they learned was not to give people an opportunity to say no. at least for the january six commission. to not make it voluntary. to just issue the subpoena so that you don't lose time asking dishonourable people to be honorable. but if they do not comply to
seek, as was alluded to, by the chair today, criminal contempt proceedings from a department of -- justice that will treat this as they treat any other lawful subpoena that is not honored, and of course to press the case in the courts knowing that, on the mcgahn case at least, we now have recent president that they should testify. as i said, lawrence, they have time on their. side it is important that if -- before we go into another major election, the country knows just to these people are and why we cannot trust them to govern or trust them to honor an election result. again the biden administration seems to have clarify today that they will review but -- they used the phrase, on the case by case basis, case of extreme privilege when it comes to handing over documents to the committee. what are you expecting, what do you expect is the responsible
approach to this? >> that is a responsible approach, what is irresponsible us to give donald trump any benefit of the doubt or to have a standard that, well, we should sweep this under the rug. in many ways, what's the carter administration, and actually the ford administration did for president nixon after all of his acts of corruption, there is no sweeping under the rug for what donald trump did. there is no rug in trump tower big enough to do that. we must make sure that we hold him to the same standard that we would hold any criminal suspect in this country. and as the released of the executive privilege, i think that they should apply without lenses. well >> are there situations where you could imagine that there would be legitimate executive privilege's claims here? >> as it relates to what is inside the balance of being president, making decisions
around foreign policy, making decisions around appointments, when they are free from corruption or fraud or crime, yes, i would say, they should assert those privileges because they want them for themselves or any future president, republican or democratic. i just believe that if you incite, or when you assemble, inflame, and aim about the capital to help you steal an election, that is far outside the bounds as your duty as president. >> congressman, before you, go let me get your assessment of where things stand on the two track biden infrastructure legislation -- there's a lot of suspense about what happens on monday. >> we lawrence, we started with the baseball analogy with the giants, there is no person in politics who i would rather have the ball and a hand with the last shot than speaker pelosi. i know that she's working to line everything up so that we can bring this home and deliver,
not only on infrastructure, but on paid family leave, childcare tax credit, and home support services. she's working with our colleagues to do that. so i trust her with a shot at the buzzer. >> is it possible that she would bring the bipartisan bill to a vote as she had promised on monday and let that vote lose if -- because there is a significant portion of the progressive side of the party that is not ready to vote for it? >> you know, lawrence, that is up to her. she typically, as you know, has never lost a vote. that is why she is so masterful as speaker. typically, she puts legislation forward when she has the votes, but again, i would just stick to the standard, john bet against pelosi because she has got the future, our children, and the country, in mind. i am not gonna bed against her as a go into the weekend. >> congressman eric swalwell, thank you very much for joining,
us we appreciated. >> my pleasure. >> and joining us now is daniel goldman, he is the former impeachment acquire majority counsel for the first impeachment trial of donald trump. and a formal -- former democratic prosecutor. i want to go through the issue of executive privilege as it applies to the investigation of the house january six special committee. what do you -- what should we be looking for as this unfolds? i think you can expect a lawsuit to intervene by donald trump to asserts executive privilege and prevent former white house officials from testifying. the problem he is going to run into is, it's no longer his executive privilege to assert. it belongs, with the office of the presidency which currently is joe biden. but as we, know and as we have seen, the merits of a lawsuit to are really irrelevant to donald trump. what he wants is to get caught
up in court where delay is the name of the game. and that's what he did in the last congress. i was part of the house intelligence committee when we subpoenaed with deutsche bank records for donald trump in march of 2019. i don't think congress has gotten him. yet so this is his playbook and it is where he's going to. do even though it is merit-less because it appears, based on some information that the president -- press secretary jen psaki said today, it appears the biden administration is not going to assert executive privilege over dame trump's conversations with people in the white house. certainly not people outside the white house, where executive privilege would apply to people like steve bannon, but the biden administration is not going to exert executive privilege, which really leaves no basis for donald -- for the administration to not turn over the documents. >> so in a case where one side
has absolutely no legitimate legal klain, how can i take years to adjudicate a case like this if the law is so clear that this is entirely up to joe biden on this question of executive privilege? >> because the courts move at their own pace. they are frequently three levels of court, at a minimum two levels of court. the problem is that there is nothing that forces a judge to expedite a -- any cause, or any litigation. so what you run into is, it is out of the hands of congress, it is out of the hands of the executive branch, and it is in the judiciary. a number of terror men and chairwoman of the house investigative committees have introduced this week protecting our democracy act.
and as part of that, there would be, by law, and expedited schedule to force congressional subpoenas that the judiciary would have to abide by. but that has not been yet law, but that is an outflow of donald trump's delay tactics through litigation while he was president. >> so it really is up to the individual judges it seems, because in watergate, and 1974, it was remarkable to watch how quickly judge sir ricky made rulings that went into the appeal system, went to the united states supreme court. this happened within weeks, that you would get these responses all the way through this system, things that we now see take several years. >> and it is still possible to move that quickly. it's not that it is not possible, it's that -- sometimes it takes a long time to research the law and write out a really thorough opinion.
but if you want to do that quickly, it takes a week. it's a week of work, at some point. and it is really up to the judges to recognize the urgency of the issue and to see through the delay tactics. and i think that the lack of merit in the forthcoming lawsuits will encourage judges to rule more quickly than they would otherwise because they have to recognize that this is simply a delay tactic to basically run out the clock on this congress and run out the clock on the january six committee. >> what have you learned -- what do you think the house should've learned by now on how to speed these investigations? >> i think they did something interesting this week, which surprised me a little bit but i think it's quite smart. they went straight for the jugular in subpoenaing for people who are closest to
donald trump in this whole big lie. early in the investigation you would start lower and work your way up so that you have more information, you try to get documents, you would have information to confront with -- what this is about. but i think they recognize that this is going to go to litigation. and if they wait, like bob mueller did with subpoenaing donald trump until the end of the investigation, they won't have time to let it go through the courts. so they went straight for the key witnesses, expecting there to be litigation, and now they will do the rest of the investigation with people who were cooperative and they will gather all that information so that in four, five, six months, when hopefully the litigation is wrapped up, they will be well prepared to interview these witnesses when the courts rule in favor of the turning out of the materials and having the witnesses testify. so i think that's a lesson that the house has learned. we are not going to do the
traditional thing, work our way up, we are gonna go first to subpoena people we know are not gonna be cooperative, and then we will go back to the beginning. , and we now see in my report, e beginning of this, our that letitia james, the attorney general stayed of you york is dealing with trump delay in litigation that she is involved with with the trump business, and she had to go into court and have the court order the trump organization to actually comply with pre-existing subpoenas and behave on schedule. and if they don't do, that they are going to send an accompanied to search their records, specializing in this kind of thing, to search the trump records to force the compliance with the subpoenas. but what we see in that right there is several, several months of delay in the enforcement of a subpoena. >> that is right, and that is the playbook. and we know it by now.
it is not used to, us it is not new. but it is a pretty remarkable notion that this judge would order some third company to go seas documents, to not pursue to a search warrant, because they are refusing to comply. in court there are instances where someone takes the fifth amendment or doesn't produce information that they should have produced. you can take an adverse against them where that information or the testimony or the documents would be harmful. we are at the point, unfortunately, where we are so used to donald trump using these bad faith, disingenuous, delay tactics that don't seem to have that impact anymore that it would ordinarily do. i don't think we should lose track of the critical issue here, which is that donald
trump fundamentally does not believe in the rule of law. and everyone who follows him and preaches about the big lie and who advocates for the so-called audits, these are bad -- this is bad faith, this is not believing in the rule of, law this is not believing in our democracy. let us not lose sight of that as we get wrapped up in the details as to what the audit says as an example. >> daniel goldman, thank you very much for joining. us i really appreciate. it >> thank you. lawrence >> coming up, why is the next trump vote recount happening in texas? trump won texas. why does he want to recount texas? two texas democrats join us next. ou want it, i got it, i got it, yeah♪ ♪when they want it♪ ♪we got it, yeah♪ ♪ ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete,
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from the presidential election to be be counted somewhere, all the time, he demanded that texas recount the votes and a deeply weird access of this demand is that donald trump won texas and his winning margin texas will hold no matter how many times you count the vote. so, is this just donald trump's a political junk driver or is this something more serious. joining us now is the stand texas state representative, jasmine crockett. and jessica benz alice who is the vice chair of the elections committee. representative gonzales, what is going on here and how did
this happen, who authorized this recount? >> look, lawrence. bottom line is that here in texas, the governor's party over the people, by passing laws and implementing bad policies in our state that once again are based on the big lie, and so it's like our state is ultimately being run by the de facto government, by the twice impeached disgrace ex president that still things that he should be in the white house. the governor is doing that to a very small portion of the electorate all because he is worried about his primary elections. trump requested from governor abbott to conduct this forensic audit, a few hours later he announced it, they were going to conduct this audit in four of the biggest counties in texas. >> representative crockett, what do you see at work here? >> man, i see complete idiots. i don't know what else to say. i mean, it's really a shame you
have so many real issues that are affecting texans, and if the voters actually had a say-so and how their money was to be spent, i don't think that anyone wants their money spent on something like doing an audit for an election in which even if donald trump had not win the state of texas, it wouldn't change the outcome of anything at this point and time, because we have a president, his name is joe biden and that is that. so, i don't understand why we are wasting taxpayers dollars on this. what we need to be putting money is things like education, are failing grid. if you wanted to do would texans want, texans want to be safe, texans want to get back to some sense of normalcy, instead, he has misplaced priorities and that is exactly why his ratings have fallen in the way that they have. >> let's listen to what harris county judge hidalgo told
rachel maddow in the last hour. >> i have our county attorney looking at legal options, it's not clear to us that there is a statute under which it can conduct this audit, but we recognize of the state supreme court will be friendly to whatever claims the state makes. we also are calling legislatures not to fund this. this is the time when they should look at the moral compass, look at who they are as public servants. and not fun this audit. they will need to approve the funding for it. and finally, we need the federal government to act. this has gone too far. >> representative gonzales, is this legal? >> i think that's a great question. i mean, currently, the secretary of state is fake it right now. the previous secretary of state, secretary of state who had said that our elections were safe and secure, and then stepped down and another one was appointed, confirmed by the senate and then ultimately
resigned, and there is an interim person serving there but that is a great question. the governor when he announced that he was gonna do this forensic audit did mention that the legislature was going to funded. we don't know with that amount is going to be. we know at least like with arizona, i think it was 5.5 million, this is going to cost us a lot more because they are auditing four of our largest counties. >> representative crockett, trying to find a rationale in trump demand isn't easy. when you look at this, it seems like donald trump wants to deliver the message that elections are not over on election night and they are not over when votes are certified by state, and they are not over when the electoral college votes. and they are not over after an aguirre shun day. it seems like he wants to have voters just ready for anything that might happen after
election day. >> yeah, he is simply trying to make sure that he'd stages his next coup. everyone knows that donald trump wants to run for president yet again. what we saw out of the texas legislature was an attempt to make sure that there was some backdoor way to overturn elections. what we saw out of georgia was a back door way of making sure that those who sit on those election boards can then be kicked out of their positions if they don't come up with the right answers. and so what this is is this idea that the election isn't over unless donald trump says it is. i have news for you, 45, it's over, you lost. we need to start not playing these games. the american people deserve better. sadly enough, right now, we need to focus on the fact that we continue to lose lives, we need not play games and this is all the more reason why we went to d.c.. this is all the more reason
that we need the u.s. senate to stand up and do what is right. we need to assure that we have a majority in this country, and a summit already of democrats, and it's time for them to do their job. we have done everything that we could in the state of texas, but you see what we are dealing with. we are dealing with crazy people. the only thing that can happen now is for our federal, legally, legally elected, let me be clear, are federally legally afflicted officials to step in and save our country and save democracy. >> representative gonzalez, let's play this out, governor abbott is going to create this recounts that is going to cost who knows how much money, that's ten going to produce a count of the vote that is virtually identical to what's already exists as the count of the vote. how does he explain a few months from now the expense and the effort that the state when to to show that the vote count was right which is what we
already knew? >> to show texans that water is indeed wet, right? again, who knows. we've heard throughout this entire battle, and fighting for our democracy here in texas with this voters repression bill that we were fighting for this whole year that there is not a problem, there's not an issue here in texas there is not white script voter fraud, we've heard the governor himself say that and so really this is all just a witch hunt, it's a witch hunt to keep the republicans in power because they know that texas is getting more and more diverse, the census numbers show that, they are doing this out of fear, and so we're already squandering tons of taxpayer dollars on this ridiculous border wall here in texas as well, so i think that elections do have consequences and he is going to have to answer those questions come election.
texas representative gonzales and crockett, thank you very much for joining us on this friday night, we really appreciate it. >> thank you for having us. >> congresswoman debbie dingell had a day. she was trying to help bring democrats together on the infrastructure bills, and congresswoman dingell, have a few choice words with a heckler on the steps of the capitol named marjorie taylor greene. congresswoman debbie dingell joins us next. joins us next. it is. so is screening for colon cancer. when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard! hi, i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages. early stages. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. (all) to screening! liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need.
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get that. doesn't >> have a little patience. follow. web see it unfold. it's very interesting. we are very encouraged. >> we are this close. so -- we will come together. >> also today, disgraced republican member of congress who is in her first year in the house of representatives and has been removed from all committee assignments, decided to heckle speaker of the house nancy pelosi in the middle of the speaker's press conference outside the capital today, where upon, our next, guests had a few words for marjorie taylor greene. we are not showing you the video because we do not want to give house men greene the pleasure of being on television, which, of course, is the only thing that matters to republicans like her. joining us now is debbie dingell from the state of michigan, she is the senior democrat. i want to begin on what they call a point of personal privilege in the congress and if there are any other more words that you want to share
with us about what you experienced on the capital steps today. >> it's not my finest moment. i think we should be civil to each other. she was heckling, she was bullying, quite frankly, she had been bullying us at the top of the stairs for about ten minutes. and she was trying to disrupt the press conference with about 150 of my colleagues that the speaker was having. and just throwing the scene. her hope was to -- she was bullying everyone. and i just said, why can't you begin civil to your colleagues? why can't you -- i was angry. and it was better me than some others. i think. i don't want people to think that they should yell at each other. but i tell you something, i have been bullied many times in my life, and i'm at a point where i don't like bullies, and when you have to speak, up i will, and that is what happened on the steps of the capital
today. . >> for the audience's perspective on. this is what she was doing was something that has never happened before. no one would ever dream -- no member of the house would ever dream of doing that kind of thing. the shock level that anyone who has been around there would've experienced and seeing that is almost indescribable. >> it is indescribable and it is disrespectful. i am someone who believes in talking to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. many of them are my close friends but what bothered me wasn't anything. it was the hatred. it's that anger that we see dividing us as a country. it was there on the capitol steps. she was very much trying to disrupt another colleague, disrupt a press conference, with a lot of my colleagues. you treat each other with respect. and civility. it is not right. i -- you know, i do want children to watch this or other people to think that you should yell at
people. but i also think that people have to stand up when you need to finally stand up to somebody and say, why can't you be civil. why do you have to do. this >> we can't take the suspense anymore. you have to tell us right now everything that is going to happen on monday. >> this is what i'm going to say to hear, failure is not an option. we have to get this figured out. we are -- people with great stomachs shouldn't -- we are in the ugliest part of watching the sausage being made hate. but i think the speaker of the house, the budget committee is gonna meet. we have to deliver, and if we don't get this figured, out if we don't deliver, absolutely everybody is going to be in trouble. so i don't think it's gonna be a pretty weekend. i think there's gonna be a lot of discussions. but we have no choice. we need to get this done. >> the white house issued a
breed out just within the last hour of the presidents call with speaker pelosi and with chuck schumer saying that, in effect, they feel like there is broad agreement on the principles of the reconciliation bill, and a recognition of the urgency to address economic challenges, the families are facing. they agreed to stay in touch over the course of the weekend. pretty standard read out for that kind of call, it is actually the kind of call i suspect is happening multiple times a day with all three of them. but clearly, the white house trying to convey that everyone is working on this, everyone is at their desks, and they are not going to let an hour go by where they are not trying to make some progress here. >> i think it's very important. e.>> i think it's important the president engaged with house members. there are two houses and congress, senate, and house of representatives. you talk to couple of members all the, time but there are a
lot of members in the middle that know what is at stake. they want to know what is happening, they want to be communicated with, and i think that is going to be one of the most important things that happens over the course of the next few days. failure is not an option. and every democrat needs to know. that >> as i listen to rachel and beginning of the, hour i was suppressive how smoothly this went in the earlier stages of legislation. i was very surprised that the budget resolution passed reasonably easily with democratic votes, all democratic votes in both the house in the senate. that budget resolution was the framework. that budget resolution was a 3.5 trillion-dollar budget resolution. and if people were not ready to support 3.5 trillion, that would've been the normal time to try to work that out. what happened between all the -- the time when all the democrats voted for 3.5 trillion, and tonight? >> oh well, first of all, i am
not going to tell you what i think the united states -- when i think of the united states senate right. now but we begin to see some senators who were expressing their concerns about the amount of money and throwing a lot of bombs. it's self destructive. i am not going to point fingers at anybody. but we need -- i want to be clear on that. we need to fix our roads and our bridges. we need to get the lead out of pipes. we need to get broadband. but there is not enough money in the bipartisan bill. so we need to get things done. i was in the white house with the president on electric vehicles where he said a goal of 50% electric vehicles by the year 2030. we are not gonna get there if we don't build out the ev infrastructure. that is in the other. bill and i can go through a list of things like that. they're a lot of things that we have got to get done, people have to understand what is in. there but frankly, everyone has
to be talking to the entire caucus too. there has been too much of people just speaking to a narrow groups of people and not having bigger talks. and i think you're gonna see more of the caucus included in the next few days. >> congresswoman debbie dingell always a pleasure to see you, but it is especially a pleasure to see you after this long dead capitol hill. >> it was a long day, it was a very long, day thank you for the kind words. >> thank you very. much and the lieutenant governor of hawaii, who is also an emergency room physician, has been attacked by anti mask and anti vaccine protesters who gathered outside is home for weeks, and months, one of the founders of that protest group now has covid-19. and now says, the lieutenant governor was right. and he was wrong. why is the -- the lieutenant governor, josh, green joins us next. green joins us next.
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guest will start his saturday shift as an emergency room physician caring for patients with covid-19. he is also the lieutenant governor of hawaii. lieutenant governor josh greene joined us on this program exactly a month ago. at that time, he was the target of anti mask, anti vaccine protests outside the apartment building where he lives with his wife and two children, ages 14 and ten. the associated press reported that, and flyers with his photo and the words jew and fraud have been plastered around the neighborhood. green, who was jewish, has been tearing them down and turning them over to the state attorney generals office. lieutenant governor josh greene said this, on this program -- >> i will absorb some of the anger and rage, as long as a means as we can get to the other individuals and get them vaccinated or get them wearing masks. >> and, now lieutenant governor josh greene has changed the mind of aid and tea vaccine
leader in hawaii. 66-year-old chris why cough, now quite a group and now that he cofounded to oppose vaccine mandates after he tested positive for covid-19 and was hospitalized. chris now says, before i thought josh greene was exaggerating the situation and after my experience he sounds very rational to me. joining us now is doctor josh greene, lieutenant governor of hawaii. thank
you very much for joining us, we really appreciate it. this says been a strange road for you. but has it been like for you to have one of the founders of the protest against you, this horrible thing that was happening outside your home, now agree that you were right? >> mostly, i felt terrible for him because he caught covid and got very sick. he and his wife ended up in the hospital. so that is something that makes you feel sad when you are physician, because i knew all along as they were protesting
outside our building, without masks and obviously unvaccinated, that they themselves were going to need care. so that was bad, i also knew that they were scaring other individuals from getting vaccinated. hawaii is a very well vaccinated state, 90% of all those eligible have gotten vaccinated. but they did worry about those individuals. it's game that he came around and
he is now disavowing that organization. >> he also said, i think we should be more concerned about safety that about protesting. i think people should not be getting together in large groups for the purpose of protesting. and this is one of the issues that we have been considering, who can deliver the message effectively to people who don't believe anything that the respected authorities are saying about this. it seems like this could possibly be a turning point for some people in hawaii. >> i truly. is when the leader of an
anti-vaccination movement gets sick and is desperate in a hospital bed on oxygen and watches dozens of other people get and to batted or goes into the intensive care unit, he had a chance of. cart and all of the people that have taken care of who has been unvaccinated and who catches covid, tell me the same, thing i wish i had been vaccinated. people should listen, this is not a political issue, this should be an issue where americans come together. we have done that in hawaii, we don't make it political, or at least, as little as we can. we kind of push politics out of this. but much of the country is wrestling with this. they're a lot of states out there where the governors have not been promoting vaccination or have not been containing large -- gatherings sizes. a lot of these states have 40, for 46% being vaccinated. they're seeing tidal wave of covid in the hospitals, they don't have the doctors and nurses to care for. them in what is the state of the protest situation in your home now and how are your children
dealing with it? >> my children are tough. my daughter, my, a is 14 and my son sam is ten. at first it was a little distressing to them because terrible things are being said about their dad. but i explain to them that we have to be understanding and tolerance and we have to be educated. we have to base our thoughts on science and that is how we get through this. i think that they were somehow gratified when that person changed his tune and decided to support our position. overall, like i said earlier, it bringing some attention to vaccinations through this rage toward us happens, then it is okay because more people got vaccinated in the state in hawaii. i think we are the most vaccinated states, at least for initiating vaccinations. i hope that other states take this to heart, because there is so much misinformation -- about other drugs. there is so much information -- misinformation about the vaccines. which means that some states do
not vaccinate their people, they will -- they should not have to, but they're gonna have to ration care. these are prices -- have to do better than this. hawaii's lieutenant governor josh green, i thank you very much for joining us. tonight we really appreciate you. >> my honor thank you. >> doctor josh greene gets tonight's last word, the 11th hour with brian williams starts right now. >> good evening, i'm chris jansing, day 248 of the biden administration and at this stage it appears to be a legal showdown between the current white house the former president trump, today the white house indicated that it is willing to cooperate with the house committee investigating the capitol riot on january six. that committee is expected to request donald trump's records from that day, which could help lawmakers find out exactly what trump and his aides were doing as the violence erupted.