tv Ayman MSNBC September 18, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
good evening, everyone. welcome to our premiere show. i will be with you here every weekend and luckily for us, there is a lot to talk about on our first night. of course, donald trump supporters showing up in washington, d.c. demanding the criminals who stormed the capitol back on january 6th, they actually should be freed because they believe they are actually innocent. now, congressional republicans. they're reluctant to condemn them and former-lead impeachment manager, congressman jamie raskin is going to be here live to talk about it in just a few minutes. plus, voting rights, infrastructure, and president biden's build back better agenda face a huge hurdle in the senate. and it's actually coming, though, from his own party. senator joe manchin, it is time for him to give up on the filibuster. that is the question many are asking congressman ro khanna is here to discuss that and a whole lot more. plus, you ever heard the medical argument getting the vaccine. everybody knows about it but what about the math argument for getting the shots? we are going to explain that to
you, as well. here we go. i'm ayman mohyeldin. all right. so tonight, we begin with that assault on american democracy. it's both a physical assault but it's also a legislative one that's playing out behind the scenes. today, around 400 protestors rallied in washington, d.c. in support of the january 6th insurrectionists who engaged in that physical assault on the capitol. now, it was less than the 700 or so expected by the department of homeland security. but the danger is not the protest, itself. it's the attempt to rewrite history, and what actually happened on that day and every day since. let's remember exactly what that assault was about back on january 6th. supporters of former-president donald trump ransacked the capitol, and they did it with one clear objective. they wanted to stop congress certifying the election of joe biden.
and they actually succeeded, if only for a few hours as, of course, everyone remembers. congress had to be rushed to safety until security could be restored. now, on that day of the attack, many republicans actually seemed to fully understand the gravity of the moment and what had actually happened. listen to what they had to say back in the immediate aftermath of january 6th. >> to those who wreaked havoc in our capitol today, you did not win. violence never wins. freedom wins. and this is still the people's house. >> they tried to disrupt our democracy. they failed. they failed. >> trump and i -- we -- we've had a hell of a journey. i hate it being this way. oh, my god, i hate it. from my point of view, he's been a consequential president. but today, first thing you'll see.
all i can say is count me out, enough is enough. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> former-president trump's actions preceded the riot were a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty. there's no question, none, that president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. >> all right. so pretty strong words there, right? so let's fast forward to today's rally, which was held in support of the people who raided the capitol and violently attacked the law enforcement officers that were tasked with keeping them safe. you know, the ones who were quite literally chanting for vice president mike pence to be hung. now, you think you would be hearing from republicans, right? that they would be condemning today's event.
but the truth is you are just not hearing much from these very same republicans. in fact, when senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was asked and given the chance to condemn the rally today, he basically dodged the opportunity. house minority leader kevin mccarthy simply told reporters monday that he doesn't think anyone in his conference is actually going to attend. meanwhile, here's what some other republicans have been saying about the january-6th insurrection. >> the people who breached the capitol on january 6th are being abused. >> the doj is harassing -- harassing peaceful patriots across the country. >> we have in this city political prisoners held hostage by their own government. >> the reason why they are -- they are taking these political prisoners, because they are trying to make an example. >> all right. so, why have so many other republicans gone so quiet about today's rally? well, we've seen what happens when republicans go against the former president. they either have their roles in congress diminished, like representative liz cheney. or they get primaried by a trump-backed candidate and resign from congress.
now, that's exactly what happened to ohio congressman anthony gonzales just this week. what's clear is that republicans staying quiet about this has a very real consequence. now, according to new polling, 71% of republicans say they believe the election was stolen from donald trump. 71%. again, it's not just the physical assault on democracy. there is also the legislative assault on the very act of voting in this country. on tuesday this week, senate democrats introduced a voting rights bill called freedom to vote act. now, the bill is meant to protect against restrictive voting measures that are being passed around the entire country by republican-controlled state legislators. now, among other provisions, the bill would make election day a public holiday. it would require same-day registration at all polling locations. and guarantee at least 15 days of early voting for federal elections across the country. now, two previous attempts to protect the right to vote in this country passed the house
but they have failed in the senate. now, that's in part because of a lack of support from west virginia democratic senator, joe manchin. manchin is onboard with this bill, though. and now, he has his work cut out for him. in order to pass the compromised bill that was written, specifically, to get his support, he needs to find ten republican senators who will vote in favor. how likely is it? well, take a listen to what senate -- >> there is no reason for the federal government to take over how we conduct elections. it is a solution in search of a problem and we will not be supporting that. >> that was senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. in other words, it's not going anywhere unless senator manchin drops his steadfast support for the filibuster. but manchin reaffirmed this stance just this week. that the filibuster is, quote, permanent. in other words, he's pulling -- he is putting the filibuster over the voting rights in this country.
we're going to have more on the fight over voting rights throughout the hour to come. but let's begin with the protest today that celebrated the attack on the capitol. perhaps, no other democrat understood and saw the magnitude of that day in its totality more than my next guest. not just because he lived through it but because he led the impeachment of the former president, who democrats alleged instigated the capitol riot. joining me now is congressman jamie raskin. he is a democrat from maryland and member of the january 6th select committee. congressman, thank you so much for joining us this saturday evening. first of all, i wanted to get your thoughts on why we're simply not hearing from the vast majority of the republican party? they are remaining silent about this rally outside the capitol today. why can't they bring themselves to condemn it? >> they have embraced the insurrection. um, i'm glad you showed the -- the footage of senator mcconnell and kevin mccarthy and others in the immediate aftermath of that nightmarish assault on american democracy.
denouncing it, distancing themselves from it. and -- um -- explaining why it is repugnant to democratic government. but then, mcconnell let donald trump off the hook when we got over to the senate for a trial. we had a 57-43 vote which was the most robust bipartisan vote in the senate to convict a president on impeachment charges in american history. and yet, trump still beat the constitutional spread of two-thirds. we got 57 votes. we needed 67 votes. and mcconnell got up afterwards and said that he was morally and practically responsible for inciting the violent insurrection against the union. and yet, he didn't think the senate had jurisdiction even though we decided that issue on the very first day of the trial. and the senate found that there was jurisdiction, of course, in harmony with more than two
centuries of understanding. so, mcconnell has essentially made his own bed at this point. and -- um -- he knows how wrong this is, just like mccarthy knows it. all of them do. and yet, donald trump now exercises the authority over the gop that jim jones exercised over the people's baptist temple. it is like an authoritarian religious cult at this point and it is terrifying that this used to be a major political party in america. now, the good news is the vast majority of the american people reject it. and are with the democratic party. hillary clinton got 3 million votes more than trump. joe biden got more than 7 million votes more than trump. and the young people have no interest in the republican party. but what they have got going for them on the gop side, other than this kind of violent battalion in the background to attack our government, is a whole set of anti-democratic instruments like the filibuster, voter
suppression, gerrymandering of our congressional districts. so it's a race between all of those implements of minority control and the necessity of majority role and that's where we are in america today. >> so -- so i got to ask you about that because i was making that point about the difference between the republicans that are courageous enough to stand up to trump. and those that are running away from it all. you have one republican unafraid to speak out against it. it's congressman adam kinzinger of illinois. let me play for you what he said to my colleague, hallie jackson, earlier this week. listen. >> i think it's ironic that, you know, that the -- the rallying cry is justice for january 6th. i mean, justice for january 6th would have been the impeachment and removal of donald trump. the calling out of people that are responsible which i am committed to doing. and lastly, i think it's time we -- we stop as a -- as a party or any leaders, accepting that somehow these ideas of oath keepers, which is basically a militia that wants to overthrow the government, that that's okay. like, we actually have -- we have conversations and disagreements in congress. we don't do it by this overthrow-the-government fetish that seems to have spread so far. >> all right. so you talk about the gap in which hillary clinton and joe
biden, in terms of the votes they received more than donald trump but the question remains what will be the long-term repercussions of not holding donald trump accountable for -- for january 6th? i know you tried that with impeachment. it didn't work. he has a grip on the republican party. a party that could still very much across state legislators shape the way this country votes and the very democracy of how this country operates. >> yes. well, the repercussions are huge. i put them into two categories. one quick correction, though. we did impeach donald trump. we impeached him twice. he wasn't convicted by two-thirds. >> correct. >> it's important to know that, you know, he was impeached twice by the house of representatives. but look. um, they are trying to come back again in 2024. we are likely to see a rematch between biden and trump. or we could see a rematch between biden and trump. but this time, trump has done everything in his power to remove any republicans who he now considers an obstacle to them playing every game they can in the electoral college.
so they are trying to get rid of brad raffensperger, the republican secretary -- secretary of state in georgia who refused to find trump 11,781 votes. so they are running my colleague against him for secretary of state and all across the country, they are doing that in order to put the personnel in place in order to cheat their way to putting trump into office. knowing that it -- a popular majority and an electoral-college majority, fairly drawn, would never go with donald trump and the party of insurrection. but that's the other thing. they have unleashed political violence as an instrument in the american body politic today and everybody sees how donald trump used the oath keepers and the three percenters and the militia groups. but the reverse is true, too. they used him. back in 2017 when they went to charlottesville, they could only assemble a crowd of 500 people and they went from 500 people being pilloried by pretty much everybody in the country other than donald trump who said he saw fine people on both sides.
but they went from 500 people in 2017 to leaving as storm troopers the front of a march and a storming of the u.s. capitol of 50,000 people. and they almost knocked over the congress of the united states. so they used donald trump. and long after donald trump is gone, he has empowered this violent, fascist streak movement in america. now, there weren't very who showed up today but that's because the oath keepers, the three percenters and donald trump weren't telling people to go there. this was kind of a renegade guy who wanted to make some money and, of course, it is a money-making operation for a lot of people that get involved. but in general, all those forces are still out there and nobody should go to sleep thinking that somehow this is a great defeat for the violent white-nationalist movement that donald trump has empowered in the country. >> i got to ask you really quickly, though, are you at all concerned about the fatigue of january the 6th? do you think this country -- and -- and are you concerned the history of that day is being rewritten by the gop?
and that the other side of the coin is that people are fatigued about hearing about it? >> nobody's fatigued about it any more than people are fatigued about hearing about 9/11. that, you know, true, red-blooded american patriots will always remember what happened on january 6th and know that we are currently in the battle, right now, struggling to defend democracy. struggling to defend voting rights. and struggling to defend the integrity of our institutions. but you're right that the extreme right and donald trump and his sycophants in congress are trying to rewrite the history of january 6th. donald trump is telling people that -- um -- the protestors, the rioters were hugging and kissing police officers on the way in. i guess that's how more than 140 of them ended up in the hospital with broken noses and traumatic-brain injuries, lost fingers, broken jaws. people had heart attacks on that day. we had a whole hearing about that in the january 6th select committee.
we're not going to let -- forget that this was a massive, violent attack on democratic process in the united states. >> congressman jamie raskin, sir, greatly appreciate your insights this evening. always a pleasure. joining me now is clint, a former-fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst and author of "messing with the enemy, surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians, and fake news." i want to start, again, with what we saw today. because obviously, it did not materialize in the way some had anticipated with a large crowd. but obviously, you had capitol police who were much more prepared for today's rally than they were back on january the 6th. give us your reaction to how the rally played out today from what you were tracking and watching throughout the day. >> yeah. it was pretty clear that from over the last probably -- i don't know -- two weeks, things were becoming less and less interesting for the extremists
online, particularly the militia groups. it was seen as a false flag or it was seen as some sort of a setup, essentially. and then, you saw the interest really drop as well with some of the congressmen. you showed cawthorn there, you know, during a clip earlier in the show. he was talking it up a lot. he suddenly wasn't talking it up as of last week. so i think what we saw was there was a lot of law enforcement there. everyone was well prepared. this is what january 6th should have been from a defensive approach and there was lots of intelligence. everyone knew what was going to happen and so it was largely a peaceful -- it was a peaceful gathering and -- and there was far more law enforcement and reporters there than actual protestors. >> yeah. peaceful is definitely -- luckily, it was peaceful and luckily nothing happened compared to what we saw on january 6th. the point i wanted to get to, clint, was about the narrative and how dangerous that is for how this plays out. because the way that these protestors today had spun january 6th was that the people
that were there on january 6th and are being held, they are now political prisoners. and that narrative is potentially very dangerous for law enforcement as it goes forward because people will now feel there are political prisoners in this country. i am curious to get your thoughts on that. is that a narrative that would mean that capitol police, going forward, have to treat every maga rally like it could potentially become the next january the 6th event? >> ayman, the weirdest thing about all of this is these are some of the same people that complain about paying their taxes. yet, every time they pull one of these stunts, it's millions and millions of dollars in federal resources. just between the intelligence, the law enforcement response, fencing, millions of dollars were spent today. and yes, it was a deterrent, you know, for these protests turning into violence but that just shows the power of these protests because we missed it the last time. what we see in terms of all the gear, everyone being present, national guard being on standby. that's what should have happened on january 5th, you know, earlier in the year.
i think overall what i worry about the most is the rewriting of history that you brought up. these folks are not political prisoners. they're insurrectionists and domestic terrorists. they broke into the nation's capitol, and they stopped political -- they tried to use violence for political change. that is terrorism. and, ayman, you and i, you know, we have been around the world talking about international terrorism. this is what we were worried about for two decades and it happened right here in our own country. they are trying to have protests like this that are peaceful now so they can say, oh, these are all just peaceful protests. i think my -- my biggest fear is that in 2022, this could all swing the other way. you know, one midterm election. if it falls the other direction in the republicans take the house and a lot of populist trump-loving congressmen come in, you may see a hearing that tries to completely rewrite this. >> yeah, i was going to say to your point having covered terrorism overseas, i know the power of disinformation and having a narrative to latch onto. because that even inspires as we
have seen in this country, lone-wolf attacks and all kinds of other extremism. so greatly appreciate you for bringing that up. clint watts, always a pleasure. thanks. joining me now is former iowa congresswoman. she is a candidate for the senate for the democratic nomination challenging or hoping to challenge iowa republican senator, chuck grassley. thank you so much for joining us. i greatly appreciate your time. and i wanted to invite you on tonight to talk about january 6th because you have really made this front and center of a lot of your campaign. in fact, back on january the 6th, you tweeted out this country -- excuse me -- this -- this is on every republican and specifically looking at you, iowa, who let the lies and falsehoods about our elections just continue to go on. you own this and it is horrifying to watch. as i mentioned, you made january the 6th a focal point in your campaign, so far. but iowa is a pretty solid red state.
a lot of people there, at least i would assume, look at what happened on january the 6th with the same narrative that we see playing out today. do you think you can win over republican voters in your state with this message? >> look. iowa is not a solidly-red state. you have to look at what we did in the last midterm in iowa in 2018 where we flipped two congressional seats. we had three out of the four congressional seats were democratic. three out of the six statewide races were won by democrats. and we're going to do it again in 2022 because truth matters. we have to hold folks accountable, including senator chuck grassley who, by the way, should have known better when it came to that day. when it came to the lies he was hearing. and should have pushed back. should have been like mitt romney. should have been like liz cheney. and actually told the truth. and in fact, he didn't just not tell the truth. he pushed the conspiracies about the election, himself, months later. it's part of why we are running.
it's part of why we must win and we need everybody with us. please, go to our site. join us. we have to hold these folks accountable and we need everybody with us as we do it. >> why do you think chuck grassley is so all in on -- on trump and the big lie? how do you explain that? >> you know, it's sad to see. you know, he is somebody i remember growing up watching here in iowa. we had a republican that was grassley. we had democrat, harken, for years. and, you know, you wouldn't always agree with everybody but you could at least believe that they were going there and they had iowa's back. he has changed. he has taken marching orders from his party, from his leadership, and he has left iowans behind and stopped having a backbone when it came to defending our democracy. again, you don't get to lie about our elections, push conspiracy theories, and expect to get re-elected to the united states senate. that is not how this country is supposed to work. again, we won in 2018. we can win, again, in 2022.
we cannot give up. we have to do everything we can and hold these folks accountable. the truth does matter. and that's what we are going to prove in 2022. again, we just need everybody with us as we do it. >> you say the truth matters and i want to make this distinction because two of the other candidates running for the democratic nomination at least, they really haven't made the january 6th riots and insurrection a -- a major focal point of their campaign. why, again, do you think that that is going to differentiate you between the voters and perhaps those that say, look, they want to focus on issues that matter to iowans, you know, the kind of bread-and-butter concerns that everybody thinks of like the economy or jobs or what have you? >> yeah. well, all of it matters. the truth matters. having a representative who actually cares about working families, like the one that i grew up in, representing us in the united states senate matters. that's what we're talking about. you can't just talk about one thing and also not, at the same
time, remind folks about what happened to our country that day. it does something to you when you are sitting on your couch in cedar rapids, iowa, and you are watching your friends and your former colleagues get attacked in real-time by a violent mob that had been fed misinformation and lies for months. and you start looking at the leadership you have in your state, and you realize, again, they should have done better. they should have spoken the truth. and that our democracy demands it. working families demand it. and we're going to fight, tooth and nail, every single day, to make sure we take this message across the state. and not just for iowa but for our country. >> all right. former congresswoman, thank you so much for your time. i greatly appreciate it. next, how to solve a problem like that of senator joe manchin. for democrats, he stands squarely in the path of the party's budget reconciliation package. and perhaps, even more importantly, the freedom to vote act. congressman ro khanna joins us next with his take. stick around. you're watching "ayman" on msnbc.
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all right. so right now in washington, all eyes are on one man. senator joe manchin. once again. on tuesday, senate democrats unveiled a new voting rights compromise bill, the freedom to vote act. now, that bill is set to have the support of all 50 democrats in the senate. but just in case you need a quick refresher on american civics, 50 votes is not enough to pass a bill in the u.s. congress. that magic number is 60 because that's how many votes are needed to break a filibuster on any given piece of legislation which senator manchin, once again, made clear he is not willing to do away with. and with no republicans signaling support, the bill appears dead on arrival. now, voting rights aren't the only democratic priority at risk. the west virginia senator is also threatening to blow up the party's budget reconciliation
package. access reported that president biden failed to persuade senator manchin to agree to the $3.5 trillion price tag at an oval office meeting on wednesday this week. but it is important to remember, manchin isn't the only one with power here. on friday, congressional progressive caucus chair, pramila jayapal said more than half of her 96-member caucus has privately told her they are willing to block the bipartisan bill if the reconciliation budget fails. joining me now to discuss this, a member of the house progressive caucus, california congressman ro khanna. congressman, thanks so much for joining us this evening. let me start by sharing with you what senator tim kaine wrote in a new op-ed that shared his experience of january the 6th puts it -- talking about january 6th saying it puts a unique responsibility on our shoulders to support and defend this democracy. he says that only by -- by passing -- excuse me -- by passing comprehensive voting rights legislation can congress live up to that responsibility.
and so, obviously, we know you do not have those ten republicans. and you don't have the willingness of somebody like senator joe manchin to do away with the filibuster. can congress actually do anything on this front? >> i mean, senator kaine is absolutely right. this is an obligation, a duty as we become a multiracial democracy. i mean, let's be clear of what's happening. states are kicking off people from the voting rolls. they are having less polling places in predominantly black and latino areas. and i think what the president needs to do is make the moral case. go to the country, across the country, barnstorm and say this is our moment. this is equivalent to what john lewis did in the 1960s and make this a legacy issue. and i think that is the best way of persuading senator manchin and others that we need an exception to the filibuster when it comes to protecting the right to vote. >> i mean, i got to ask you because it seems like all of this comes down to the hands of two senators.
you have house democrats. they have previously passed two other voting bills. the for the people act and the john lewis voting rights advancement act. only for the legislation to die on the senate side of this because as a house member, i got to ask. i mean, you are obviously in the progressive caucus. it must be extremely frustrating for you. is there anything the house can do here? or does the success of your party, as i was saying, in its priorities really ride on the whims of these two senators? >> it rides on the senate and, you know, if the house starts -- the senate, it's not going to be productive. really, it depends on my view on the president and the senate majority leader going to the country. and putting the pressure and making the case that this is really our civil rights movement. this is the president's legacy. we have to secure a person's
right to vote. and invoking john lewis's legacy, speaking about majority leader clyburn and everything he's done to secure voting rights. unless we make a public case, unless this becomes a legacy issue, it's just not going to happen. >> yesterday, you probably saw after representative jayapal made the progressive caucus wishes clear, nine house moderates sent a letter to speaker pelosi to move forward with that september-27th vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill despite those threats from your progressive caucus to block it without the spending package. they claim the country cannot afford to delay a single day longer. who's going to blink first here? i feel like we are in a game of brinksmanship between the moderates and the progressives and -- and it's really a matter of who is going to cave in, first. >> i don't think there's any caving or -- or any threats. i think the view very clear. we have to pass the full biden agenda. that is the president's view. that is the view articulated by his chief of staff. that is the speaker's view. we need to all, as democrats, get onboard with this democratic president's agenda. and that is that we have the infrastructure bill and we have the build back better bill with childcare, with medicare
expansion, with the clean energy agenda. that's what the president wants and it should be very clear that anyone who doesn't want that is undermining joe biden. >> i got to ask you, though, about another issue and that had to do with the debt ceiling. it is a bit rich to be coming out of republicans who, obviously, in the four years of president trump didn't even want to hear the word debt ceiling. and now, you have them complaining about democrats and increasing the debt. what do you make of senate minority leader mitch mcconnell's argument there? well democrats blink first with so much on the line here when it comes to the -- the conversation of debt ceiling? >> well, it's pure politics, obviously. they were willing to extend the debt ceiling to give tax cuts to the billionaires and millionaires. they have been willing to extend the debt ceiling when it comes to all of the corporate handouts.
but when it comes to having an extension of the debt ceiling to help working families, to tackle the climate crisis, to put people and our planet first. this will resolve and people are seeing them for what they are doing. it's pure politics and they won't be taken seriously as a governing party if they don't vote to extend the debt ceiling. >> all right. congressman ro khanna, always a pleasure, sir. good to see you. thank you. >> thank you so much, congressman. don't miss tomorrow night, mehdi hasan talks with john legend about the fight for voting rights in this country. tune in tomorrow 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. so, more republicans are fleeing the grand, ole party but who is actually going to replace them? we are going to tell you. stick around. this is a gamechanger, who dares to be fearless even when her bladder leaks. our softest, smoothest fabric keeping her comfortable, protected, and undeniably sleek.
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all right. so you probably heard this. if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. well, in the donald trump era, an overwhelming majority of republicans seemed to embrace that old adage as their guiding principle. those who were once critical have found a way to put their differences aside and embrace the twice-impeached former president. now, a much smaller number of republicans seem to be guided by a different principle. if you can't beat 'em, well take your ball and go home. that's the decision made this week by ohio congressman anthony gonzales. one of only ten republicans who actually voted to impeach trump after the deadly january-6th insurrection. on thursday, gonzales announced that he will not seek re-election. in fact, in normal times gonzales would be considered a rising star in the gop. former-football star, stanford mba and a deeply conservative track record. what he is not to like for the gop? but today's republican party, though, they place a premium on blind loyalty to donald trump. and so, the rising star is headed for the exits of his party. trump couldn't contain his glee,
as you can imagine. responding in classic fashion by simply saying, good riddance to anthony. for more on where these defections leave the republican party, let's bring in tom nichols, contributing writer to the atlantic and author of the book, "our own worst enemy, the assault from within on modern democracy." and former democratic senator barbara boxer from california. good to have both of you with us. tom, i want to play a lit bit of what congressman gonzales said today about his retirement. watch this. >> our politics has gotten so polluted -- um -- that -- that -- that environment for me, personally, is just not one that -- that i'm -- i'm willing to be a part of going forward after, you know, serving out my term. >> all right. so my question is should republicans like gonzales be celebrated for bowing out if they conclude that they simply can't win a primary because the politics have shifted? or should they be criticized for abandoning the fight? for not staying in the fight, and trying to convince voter --
voters of what the right way to do this should be? >> but there's a third option here which is that a young man like gonzalez. a father, you know, married, kids. um -- you -- i don't think you can really criticize someone like that too harshly for saying -- um -- i'm not going to serve in the congress of the united states if i have to put my family at risk every day from a mob that, you know, is sending threats. and basically, just doesn't, you know, a number of people who just don't want me there and will do anything to make sure that i -- that i don't serve in congress. this isn't -- you know, at some point, this becomes about quality of life, versus public service. for a lot of people. and i think if there were a -- a faction within the republican party that had any representation in leadership, you could probably say to someone like representative gonzalez, stay, fight. there are enough of you. you know, lead the party out of this dark place. the problem is the house
leadership is all completely -- has all completely sold out to donald trump. i mean, who do you turn to when your constituents, you know, are -- are calling for your head? kevin mccarthy? elise stefanik? in that sense, i think we have to cut a little slack to people like gonzalez who are saying, you know, i did my part. i have done my best. i have a family and i have a life and it's not worth this kind of abuse from the public. >> yeah. no. and no doubt about that. you are talking about a very important part which is the actual threats that they are facing. and let me just talk about that for a moment, senator boxer. because congressman gonzalez actually talked about this in "the new york times." he said that the threats he has received since his impeachment vote made him fear for the safety of his wife and children. and -- and to tom's point, how does an elected official fight on in the face of such threats? we are -- we're no longer talking about political disputes
here as -- as i was saying earlier, that you can encourage these folks to stay and fight and not to surrender the party. but when you're dealing with life-threatening, you know, situations towards your family and children, it's a different ball game, entirely. >> that's correct. and i -- i agree with the comments that were made because i served in the congress for so many years. a mom, a grandmother. i -- you know -- cared so much about my family. this is a sad day for the republican party. to see a rising star -- this man was absolutely conservative. he was not a flaming liberal. he just felt very concerned that president trump had abused his power, and he voted that way. so, what i have seen in my lifetime in politics and i do go back a long way. my first election that i won was in the '70s. and i just want to explain this. at that time, the republican party was pro-civil rights,
pro-voting rights, pro-trade, pro-immigration, pro-environment. and whether you believe me or not, pro-choice. george herbert walker bush was on the board of planned parenthood. so, in all the years that i was in battles with the republicans, we were fighting over the votes of all the american people. and it was a joyful experience. now, this -- this representative -- um -- is -- is scared to death. and the gentleman in new hampshire who was -- who is a physician -- is looking at this party and thinking i can't go along with this. >> right. >> i don't want my people, when they get a sore throat, to call mitch mcconnell. i want them to listen to the doctors. >> yeah. so speaking of that, to tom's point. tom, you had another gop defection this week. it was a new hampshire state lawmaker. he is also a doctor. got fed up with the radicalism of state republicans,
specifically over their opposition to vaccines and vaccination mandates. he switched his party affiliation from republican to democrat. he spoke to nicolle wallace yesterday. let me play this for you. watch. >> i think they've lost their minds. i mean, why would you withhold access to the vaccine in the middle of a pandemic when numbers are skyrocketing in the state of new hampshire? it makes -- it's absolutely insane in my mind. which i can't put up with it anymore so i said i'm done with this. i'm -- i've left. >> all right. so, tom, gop. they can't keep doctors. stanford mbas are out. what kind of future can they expect to have if they cannot draw top-tier candidates to be a part of their party? >> they don't need top-tier candidates. they just need candidates who survive the crazy tests imposed by their own base. and then, hope that negative partisanship drives enough people to vote for them because they have an r after their name. and what the party will look like is an angry, mostly white base that -- that is going to be
led by a bunch of very cynical opportunists who know exactly what they're doing. you know, people like stefanik and hawley and cruz and rubio. you know, manipulating them into thinking that somehow these -- um -- highly-educated republican elites somehow care about them as a way of staying in power. it's going to be a very messed up situation. >> all right. senator boxer, quick one for you. you're a california resident scholar here. what did this week's recall election tell us about the future of the gop? was it about the candidate? was it more than that if the party continues to nominate these trumpy candidates like what we saw there with elder, are they destined to lose in all but the reddest of districts and states? >> i do think they're destined to lose. if you look at larry elder and, you know, in many ways, the recall was a blowout for gavin newsom.
good for him. and it was a blowout for the democrats. but the big story is about the republicans. who do they choose, overwhelmingly? a man who says that the minimum wage should be zero, and that slave holders, he could make the argument that they should have gotten reparations? and that women don't understand politics. you know, it's crazy. >> all right. we are going to have to leave it at that. former-senator barbara boxer, thank you. tom nichols, thank you as well. greatly appreciate you joining us this evening. next, to believe or not to believe? that is the question. misinformation on social media when it comes to covid vaccines. we are going to tell about that, next. but first, good evening, santa monica, california. it is looking like it is going to be a beautiful night out west. become the best! [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito]
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severe covid now have the green light from the fda for third doses of the pfizer vaccine. but the white house's hopes of booster shots for the majority of americans have been blocked, at least for now. the panel of fda experts overwhelmingly voting against recommending third doses for all americans. it will be welcome news for the world health organization, though, who have called for a global halt on booster shots. the director general said giving doses to healthy people is not right. as it stands, 5.8 billion vaccine doses have been administered, globally. however -- and this is the important part -- 80% of those have gone to the world's wealthiest nations, and less than 2% of those shots have been in low-income countries. but as cases across the u.s. continue to rise, what's the best way forward for us? do we stamp out covid here at home, first? or must we vaccinate the globe to try and prevent the next
delta variant from taking hold? joining us now to discuss this, dr. bhadelia. as well as an nbc medical contributor. doctor, it's great to have you on. so let's start with this fda decision. how do you think this decision was made? how surprising was it for you? what do we know about the future approval for boosters of other vaccines like moderna and j&j? >> i think this was not surprising because -- and i think it's important for people to understand that this decision was not made looking at whether we should be vaccinating the rest of the world. it was really done looking at the data which suggests that there isn't enough evidence to say that, for the general population, the immunity's waning against severe disease. yes, there is some immunity that's waning against infections but not enough to suggest that everybody needs a booster at this time. now, that may change if more data comes out that says -- in the next, you know, three, four months.
as more people hit their eight-month mark, you start to see that but that evidence doesn't exist. so, to -- to that committee, you know, it -- it's based on the current science says it's the best option. and also, there was a long discussion about the way that we handle the outbreak nationally here. the first doses are still going to be what protects us from having healthcare systems get overwhelmed. the first doses in our country and globally are what is going to protect us from coming across somebody else who is infected so we don't get infected. >> yeah. so to that point, there will be no doubt that this is going to be welcomed by the world health organization as i've suggested. they've been requesting a global pause on booster shots. in fact, there was a report this week from the gates foundation that was talking about vaccine inequities. they described it as a profound moral outrage. saying that there is a risk that high-income countries will begin to actually treat covid as another epidemic of poverty or not our problem. we're all vaxed. you guys deal with your problems.
why can't you get the vaccinations rolled out in your own countries? what's your response to that? >> well, it's already happening. you know, we need 43% of the world -- we need about -- and the covax says they are going to get about 4 point -- 1.4 billion by the end of the year. the manufacturers have all fallen behind on their -- on their targets. you know, the donations that are promised -- here in the u.s., we promised 500 million. about 140 million of those doses have gone out. eu is even further behind. i think 18 million of the 200 million that they promised. and not only that, you know, to get to the kind of goal. you know, we have heard that the -- president biden is going to announce this -- this plan next week at the u.n. general -- general assembly about vaccinating 70% of the world. to get to that, we need something revolutionary. we need to be able to democratize the manufacturing because we can't get to that level of vaccines without something completely changing. and what's happening in the interim, right, there is a global fund report that says 100 million fewer people were
diagnosed and treated for tb. 22% dropped worldwide in hiv testing. there is nothing that says just because you are in one pandemic, another outbreak will happen because healthcare system that remain overwhelmed across the world potentially miss the next sars-cov-2 pandemic. >> always a pleasure. thank you so much for joining us this saturday night. our premiere show. still, so much to get to. more than 700 protestors were expected in d.c. to support those arrested for their roles in the january-6th insurrection. far fewer than those that actually showed up. law enforcement and the media seem to actually outnumber the demonstrators. but regardless of turnout, did the rally goers get what they wanted by drawing attention to their cause?r i am going to discuss that tonight with my saturday-night panel.