tv MSNBC Live MSNBC January 6, 2021 11:00pm-12:00am PST
,... ...other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions,... ...and all medicines you take. don't take mavyret with atazanavir... ...or rifampin, or if you've had certain liver problems. if you've had or have serious liver problems other than hep c, there's a rare chance they may worsen. signs of serious liver problems may include yellowing of the skin, abdominal pain or swelling, confusion, and unexplained bleeding or bruising. tell your doctor if you develop symptoms of liver disease. common side effects include headache and tiredness. with hep c behind me, i feel free... ...fearless... ...because i am cured. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. welcome back. i'm ali velshi. an attempted coup is under way in the united states. the president of the united states refusing to accept his loss in an election and encouraging violence and insurrection which manifested today with an attack, a direct attack on the house of
representatives. it was an attack of wanton violence, an attack on democracy in fact. we are closer to the inevitable outcome, however, that president trump is going to be out of office. some republicans in congress and rioters tried to keep that from happening. the final vote count to assure joe biden's election win has not happened. look at the bottom of your screen. 244-157. there has to be 270 -- i'm sorry, 157. there has to be a 270 in front of joe biden's name. it is eventually going to get to 306. it is my suspicion that will happen within the next hour or so. so if you are watching this now, refill your coffee and stay with us because this is the night you are going to want to remember. last night was a night to remember, too. two democrats won the two run-offs in georgia. so the senate will now be 50/50 which is interesting and positive for joe biden and democrats, but what happened today was negative for
everything. the world, for america, for democracy, for donald trump, for the yahoo! insurgents who tried to get into the capitol and for the capitol police who did not seem well prepared to handle what happened. pro-trump protesters egged on by the president himself at a rally marched to capitol hill and laid siege to the place, to the united states capitol, creating a scene of destruction that ended with four deaths. the shocking scene of maga hat-wearing anarchists on the attack against the citadel of democracy did what even a mountain of facts and a nearly 250-year tradition in this country couldn't. it forced some republicans who had vowed to fight the orderly counting of votes. that's all that is happening today, the orderly counting of votes, to actually end their objections and let the process continue. not everybody did, by the way. six senators still carried on
with their bs and voted against it. but most went along with it, much to the relief of those on both sides of the aisle that had been calling for that for weeks. >> for any who remain insistent on an audit in order to satisfy the many people who believe the election was stolen, i would offer this perspective. no congressional audit is ever going to convince these voters, particularly when the president will continue to say that the election was stolen. the best way we can show respect for the voters who are upset is by telling them the truth. [ applause ] >>that's the duty of leadership. the truth is that president-elect biden won the election. president trump lost. i have had that experience myself. it is no fun. >> we know that we're in difficult times, but little could we have imagined the
assault that was made on our democracy today. to those who strove to tear us from our responsibility, you have failed. to those who engaged in the gleeful desecration of this, our temple of democracy, american democracy, justice will be done. >> one of the benefits of being on at 2:00 eastern is that all of my bosses are asleep so i can talk frankly to people tonight, including my fellow journalists who might have been told by their employers not to use certain words to describe what has happened today. this was a coup attempt. this was the encouragement of insurrection to overcome democracy. this was sedition. this was lies. this was a lot of bad things, and that's all true. let's go to capitol hill. garrett haake has been keeping an eye on what is actually going on right now. the vote in the senate with respect to the challenge to the
vote in pennsylvania has concluded overwhelmingly objecting to the objection. so it is done in the senate it it is now back to the house where i suspect based on our timing, garrett, this debate should be concluding sometime soon with a vote, and then both chambers come together and they've got up to 40 minutes to debate this thing and then there is a final vote. >> reporter: you are doing most of the hard work for me here, ali. yeah, look, this sad day is almost behind us at this point. the senate has concluded their work. they had one last vote on this pennsylvania election challenge, and they would hope they're done. they're adjourned until the day before inauguration day. don't expect to see them back at the capitol any time soon. the house debate on the pennsylvania challenge continues. on the arizona challenge earlier tonight we saw more than 100 house republicans vote with the president and against real election results to, you know, push for this challenge to the arizona electors.
what that means here is they've got more folks who may want to speak on the pennsylvania issue. i think it is important to note every time we talk about this, this entire exercise is performative. when this night is over sometime in the next hour or two, joe biden will remain the douuly elected president of the united states. all of the votes will be counted and we will be moving toward inauguration day. what we are looking at the last remaining house republicans by and large, house democrats rebutting them. probably the most interesting moment in the last hour or so on the house floor was a powerful speech by connor lam, democrat of pennsylvania, sticking up for the honor of his home state and pushing back against those who questioned the election results saying they shamed themselves and this process. things are getting testy here. tempers are short. there was something of a verbal altercation in the back of the chamber between two members.
i believe andy harris and colin allred, former nfl player, not a person i would want to make angry in any circumstance. anyway, they are coming to the close of the debate and then they will have a vote, and then it will be back to the orderly counting of electoral votes with only a handful of states left to tally and then the sorry business will be behind us, ali. >> what is your guess, over, under, when that happens? we have to get from 244 votes, first hurdle is 270 electoral votes and then ultimately to finish this thing off it is 306 electoral votes. are we talking about an hour, two hours? >> reporter: i think somewhere between an hour, hour and a half. i think we are probably shutting the lights off here about 3:30 would be my guess. >> i'm not leaving until this is done, garrett, and i suspect you are not either. >> i'm not going anywhere, ali. i have some snacks left.
i have some waters. we are hanging out. >> you and i have spent many a late night waiting for things to happen in congress. this is just another one, another feather in our cap. we will watch this happen. history will be made tonight at the united states congress one way or the other. garrett, don't go far. garrett haake for us on capitol hill. joining me is frank figureulusi, formerly from the fbi, an msnbc national security analyst. the irony of this, frank, is that today was a national security. today was actually a thing if you called it by what it is, it was terrorism, an act of insurrection, an attempt at se dir sedition, an attempted coup. something that our national security infrastructure should be concerned about except it started with the president of the united states.
>> it was all of that and more. here is what i mean by that, it is all of the words you are using at this early wee hour that we're in and it is more because it was an insider threat, a domestic threat we are trying to get our hands around legislatively, as law enforcement, as the intelligence community. there's huge gaps in the law that have to be addressed that would have brought law enforcement into this picture much, much sooner. but it is an ongoing threat because it is not going to go away simply when this president disappears. we are facing the possibility, ali, of a permanent insurgency when 74 million people say "i'm voting for that guy, i'm loyal to that guy, i have a flag with that guy's last name on it, not the stars and stripes on my flag," then we are dealing with something that we see in
colombia, with the farq and the auc, that we see in spain with separatist groups, that we have seen in our own territory of puerto rico with groups like faln, separatist groups. that's the deep concern. but there's even more here because we're not talking about our adversaries tonight. ore adversaries externally are looking at what happened here, and i bet you that they are sitting in their command centers wondering if this is the moment, if this is the week that they move on us either militarily or from a massive cyber perspective and create even more chaos than we've created ourselves. >> this is a gift to any adversary is i think the point you are making, to watch americans turn on themselves, to watch the president send violent mobs to congress to challenge the normal course of democracy.
if you were russia trying to foment discontent in america, you couldn't buy this as effectively as it has unfolded today. >> yeah. we did this one all by ourselves, ali. we can't point our finger at russia and say, they fomented this. you know, we can't look at china, iran or north korea and say, can we pin this on them. this is on us. this is on our president, and this is on his co-conspirators, elected officials in the house and the senate who have done this. but i'm even more concerned than that. i am concerned that in the kremlin, in beijing tonight, in capitals around the world in our adversarial nations, they're wondering whether anybody is in charge. there are signs tonight, ali, that maybe no one is in charge. when you don't have the kind of staffing and resources at the
capitol to protect this event, you have to wonder why. when we haven't had a press conference tonight by senior leaders in law enforcement explaining who is running this, what happened and what's next, you are to wonder. when you've got an acting attorney general and an acting secretary of defense, actings throughout our government, this is a vulnerable moment for us. we have to consider whether or not we can actually handle 14 more days of this. >> and you did actually have the president not in a national address on television talking to the american people and asking them to respect the outcomes of democracy. you had him make a video largely for these people. he told them to be peaceful and to back off but that the election has been stolen. the president is the agitator in this situation. >> yes, this is the greater insider threat of all, is to have one sitting in the oval
office, and we have that person sitting there for 14 more days unless additional action is taken. and whether our government is capable of taking that necessary action, i doubt, quite frankly, but we need answers on who is running the show from a federal law enforcement perspective. who made the decision to allow protesters into the capitol building during this event? why wasn't it designated a national security event as we do every year for the super bowl? we do it for a football game and we couldn't do it for this event knowing the threat level that was on this, knowing the intel and proud boys and other groups planning this, talking about breaching and barricades and overwhelming the capitol police for at least the last two weeks, ali, and we couldn't get this right? we need some answers. >> frank figliuzzi, thank you for joining us, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi. we will have a look at how the chaotic day on capitol hill
unfolded in real-time on social media when we come back. meanwhile we are keeping an eye on what is going on the left of your screen. that is the debate under way in congress. that's going to be wrapping up fairly shortly with a vote. then you are going to see a joint session of the house and the senate. they are going to complete that count and joe biden before the sun is up i would guess is going to be declared by the count the next president of the united states. robinhood believes now is the time to do money. without the commission fees so you can start investing today,
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pennsylvania. we're going to keep an eye on that. i will interrupt my guests if we feed to go to it. i have hayes brown with me. hayes is a remarkable writer and editor for msnbc daily, which kind of makes him a bit of my boss because i write for msnbc daily. joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc contributor who secretly has been giving me advice tonight on how to conduct myself, which i'm deeply appreciative for. rick tyler is a msnbc analyst. i am starting with you, rick. it was 2016, a presidential debate, republican primary debate in houston. i think you were working for rick -- for ted cruz at the time. >> what is wrong with ted cruz? what is wrong with ted cruz. you worked with ted cruz. what is wrong with him? how did you become a completely anti-democratic guy who is siding with a guy that said his wife was ugly and his father
contributed to the assassination of john f. kennedy. >> you know, ali, i hear the anger in your voice and have the same anger. in 2016 ted cruz stood in front of the republican convention and probably gave the best speech of that convention. in that convention he told people to vote their conscience. it was the last courageous ted cruz i ever saw. i don't know what happened to ted cruz between that time and now. he spent a great deal of time yesterday talking about poll numbers, about why he was ontoing to these electors because people don't have trust in their electoral system. the reason they don't have trust in the election system is because their president goes out and tells them over and over again, including yesterday when he was supposed to ask his army there to standdown, instead he fomented more and more division by saying the election was stolen. ted cruz is giving credence to that. instead of going out and being a leader and telling people the
truth and his people the truth that this election was not stolen, there's no evidence this election was stolen, he lends it credence. he talks about representing them, but that's not what senators are supposed to do. they're supposed to lead. they're supposed to lead and to tell the truth. they're not supposed to foment hair-brained conspiracies that ended up -- i heard you at the beginning, ali. i have avoided using words like sedition and treason and insurrection. this was an insurrection. i watched it. there's nothing else you can say about it. when people violently break into the united states capitol, the people's house, to disrupt their government, to stop the function of the government from duly electing or duly confirming basically, it is administrative thing, and donald trump had the people at the white house and told them to go to capitol hill. he told them in many, many different words to break up this electoral college. that's what they did.
this is on him. we'll get through this, but this is dangerous, average frank figliuzzi was pointing out. we don't have to -- the chinese and russians don't have to make propaganda ads. all they have to do -- >> play this. >> -- is donald trump will make them for them. >> play this. joyce vance, words matter. let's talk about words because our words have normalized donald trump over the last four years, and if we were reporting on this, kyle perry makes this point all the time because he and i spent a lot of time reporting on international news. if we were reporting on this in another country, we would not spare ourselves the words of attempted coups and insurrections and things like that. so tell me about what this is and what this isn't that is going on at the hand of donald trump. >> i think you make a great point, ali, and it is worth noting why we don't use the same kind of strong language
domestically that we do abroad. the reason that we don't do that is because we have a tradition in this country of cooperation, of people with different ideological points of view working together. the problem is that that principled practice is poorly suited for the trump era, and that's just a reality that has caught up with us too slowly. that for so long, for years we talked about the president misrepresenting or, you know, anything that we can say to avoid calling him out for the lies. now that's coming home to roost here as we see domestic terrorism, as we see a coup in our nation's capital, but this isn't out of the blue. we have seen this in michigan. we have seen this in other states throughout this entire electoral process, and in many cases fomented or encouraged by the president. so now we're at the point where we have to talk about whether we have sedition that to some extent has been procured by the president or encouraged by the
president. it is a very uncomfortable conversation for us to have in this country. >> yes, yes. >> but it is one that we have to be painfully honest about having at this point. >> it is deeply uncomfortable to use these words about your own government. tell me, you have an interesting view though about how treason is the one we have to be careful about. >> well, look, i think there's a difference between our commonly understood assumptions with treason, someone who is disloyal to government, and what the actual law says since it is the wee hours of the morning i will teach criminal law for first year law students for a sec and say that every crime consists of elements, of acts you have to take and a state of mind you need to possess. technically, under our law it is not treason unless you are aiding a country that we have a formal declaration of war or some other formal enemy status with. so although you couldn't be convicted for treason for these sort of acts, i think it is fair
to say that what we've seen at least over the last 24 hours is a terrible act of disservice to our country, of disloyalty to our government. sedition may be legally the better language to use, but we all know what it is, right? we know it when we see it. stand by, i want to go to the house. adam schiff, chair of the house intel committee is speaking. >> to this country today, is that not enough? roosevelt said this nation has placed its destiny in the hands and heads and hearts of millions of free men and women. our strength, he concluded, is our unity of purpose. let us unite once again in defense of the greatest hope of freedom-loving people around the world, this precious democracy. i yield to jamie raskin. >> madam speaker, the baseless attack on pennsylvania and its electors brought to mind for me the great tom payne, the champion of popular democracy,
who came over to america to fight with us in the revolution against the king. he lived in philadelphia where he wrote "common sense in the age of reason." payne said, in the monarchies the king is the law, but in the democracies the law will be king. when you think about it, the peaceful transfer of power is the central condition of maintaining democracy under the rule of law. that's why the famous election of 1801 was such a big deal. when john adams relinquished the presidency to his passionate adversary and lifelong friend, thomas jefferson, it was the first peaceful transition of power between democracies in a democratic republic in the history of the world. he said as he rode back to massachusetts from washington, adam said that he did this because we are a government of
laws and not of men. we will betray this principle if we trade a government of laws for a government of men or, even worse, a single man or an impressionable and dangerous mob intent on violent sedition and insurrection against our beloved democratic republic. here is abraham lincoln right before the war. at what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? i answer, if it ever reaches us it must spring up amongst us. it cannot come from abroad. if destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and its finisher. madam speaker, my family suffered an unspeakable trauma on new year's eve a week ago, but mine was not the only family to suffer such terrible pain in
2020. hundreds of thousands of families in america are still mourning their family members. many families represented in the congress are still mourning their family members who have been taken away from us by covid-19, by the opioid crisis, by cancer, by gun violence, by the rising fatalities associated with the crisis in mental and emotional health. enough, my beloved colleagues, it is time for america to heal. it is time for our families and communities to come together. let us stop pouring salt in the wounds of america for no reason at all. let us start healing our beloved land and our wonderful people. i yield back.
>> all time for debate has expired. the question shall -- shall the objection submitted by the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. perry, and the senator from missouri, mr. hawley, be agreed to? those in favor, say aye. >> aye. >> those opposed, say no. >> no. the nos have it. the gentleman is recognized. >> i would like a recorded vote. >> the gentleman -- the ayes and nays are requested pursuant to section 3s of house resolution eight. the ayes and nays are ordered. members will report their vote by electronic device and are reminded to vote when their group is called and to leave the chamber after they have voted. okay. so what has just happened there. first of all, there was a very long and extended round of
applause for jamie raskin, who talked about -- congressman jamie raskin who talked about all of those we have lost. congressman raskin lost his 25-year-old son seven days ago. he was taken by the illness called depression, and he died as a result of suicide. so he got it extended, he has an extended applause for the idea that this nation must heal. now, here is what happen it. they did a aye and nay vote. the nays clearly had it. you can hear it, but congressman perry of pennsylvania, who is one of the sponsors of this vote, rose and said that he would like a reported vote, a recorded vote, which is, again, another piece of nonsense that's going on here because it was abundantly clear that this vote is going to be defeated, but they are recording the vote right now. as is nbc policy, we will not call that vote until the house has called it. so you may see on the screen at
some point that the objection is defeated. we will not know that until it is announced by the house. once it is defeated, we know it was defeated in the senate, they will bring both chambers together and there is another 40 minutes left of discussion on it. they don't have to take all 40 minutes. they can just skip to it. but fair to say that i think there's 15 minutes for this vote, so that takes us to 2:45 a.m. eastern and then another 40 minutes for that vote. so it does appear that by 3:30 a.m. eastern, very much like garrett haake suggested, this will be over. at the bottom of your screen you will see joe biden with 306 electoral college votes, and that is the last procedural move before joe biden is inaugurated as the president of the united states. this is left. this is all that's left. once this finishes, it is over. now, the trick here is that mike
pence is going to have to be the one to sign that paper and hand it over. that is something that donald trump has been pressuring him not to do. it does seem that mike pence realizes that he has no power other than to sign that paper. so i think this is going to be over within the next hour. if you can stay up, if you can stay up and have yourself another cup of coffee, you are going to watch history in the making. i have got joyce vance, rick tyler and hayes brown with me. i want to bring hayes brown in. to make a point that we've made a couple of times this evening, but, hayes, there is no overwhelming concern over voting irregularities that is based in any reality. donald trump and other conspiracy theorists including qanon spread this, and they started spreading it for a very long time. in fact, donald trump has been spreading questions about voting irregularities and election irregularities since the days when he talked about barack obama being a kenyan-born muslim. i'm not an expert at anything as
you are, hayes, but i'm an expert on one thing. i'm a kenyan-born muslim and barack obama was never at any of those meetings, so i know it to be a lie. but donald trump perpetuates these things and people believe him. so the idea that the defense is that lots of people think there were voting irregularities, they only think so because republicans spread this nonsense. >> exactly. the people, especially the people in the senate who have been pushing this, who have caused these delays by objecting to the electoral votes, they they --they know that good and well. ted cruz and josh hawley went to yale law school. dhe a they are experts in the law and know what the law said. they're betting donald trump supporters do not. do you know how many argued -- constitution said vice president mike pence can overturn the
electoral college vote and when asked where, they couldn't tell me. if i were a senator i would be furious with ted cruz, josh hawley and others who put us through the process. it is supposed to be a quick and easy thing. you stand up there, the votes are count it that have been brought in from the states and, bam, you're done. everyone is home by dinner. instead, the only people home by dinner were the insurrectionists, the people that broke into the capitol and were allowed to leave. if i were them, it is late, they're old in congress, they're all probably exhausted from a very long day. instead of getting to, you know, be at home in their beds, they're sitting here having to pretend that there's any sense in the arguments being made that the vote was fraudulent, that joe biden stole the election somehow from donald trump, that any of them in there truly believe the conspiracies about voting machines and fraud, et cetera, is hard to believe. i mean some of them may. mel brooks, the representative
from alabama, he may well believe these things. but i highly doubt that many of the people who are recording their vote right now objecting to pennsylvania's electoral college votes actually believe the lies that donald trump has spread. they're just counting on the people who will vote for them, who believe donald trump to then by transfer of property vote for them in the next election. it is cowardly, it is cynical, it is wrong, it is dangerous and, most importantly, it is tiring. i'm tired of it. >> it is tiring. >> i'm tired of it. i cannot wait for this process to be done. >> we are all tired, that is for sure. garrett haake has something to clarify, which leads me to believe i might have said something wrong. i want to bring garrett in. what did i mess up on? >> reporter: you were trying to keep track of the time here. we're looking at a 40-minute vote is the reality because we have to do the different groups. >> yeah, yeah, i said is a minute but it is longer than
that. >> reporter: that's all right. congressional time is always longer than you think will be. we said 40 though it can be longer than that. speaker pelosi has been in the chair all day. for people who don't watch congress probably don't know that. they think the speaker is running the show all the time but the speaker rarely controls debate throughout a whole day, frankly throughout a whole bill much less a whole day. she has been trying to drive this thing along and i suspect it will continue. we will move through the 40 as quick as she can make 40 minutes go before they ultimately bring the senators, if any of them are left, most importantly the vice president back to continue to count. ali, i want to add one other thing that you were pointing out. when they called for the recorded vote, for the republicans who are making this challenge, the recorded vote is the point. this whole exercise is pointless, right? this whole exercise is performative, but the folks driving this, these republican house members, want to be on the report with their support for
donald trump. so the performative calling for a recorded vote to make sure the ayes and nays are counted and they can put themselves down as a aye for these objections, unbelievably, that's the point of the exercise tonight. >> so just to correct my math. they started the vote at 2:30. it will be 4:10 before that's wrapped up. then how soon -- >> reporter: no, no, they started at 2:30, 3:10. >> 3:10. >> reporter: i warned you about math after midnight, ali. you didn't listen to me. >> yes, you did. 3:10. then how quickly do they get the senate involved? because that's another 40 minutes of debate. >> reporter: look, they're going to bring just the vice president over. i would be surprised if we see more than a handful of senators who might feel personally interested in sticking this thing outcome back over. but the vice president has an office here in the capitol. he has been holed up here all day. i suspect they will move him back to the house chamber quickly to try to finish the process out. as we saw in the last hour and
the testiness of this debate, everybody involved wants to get it done here pretty quick. >> so now we are thinking 4:00-ish best case scenario. >> reporter: i think that's probably right. perhaps the 3:00 hour could finish but 4:00 seems like a good time for us to take a breakfast break. >> okay. all right. thank you for that, my friend. i'm staying away from math after midnight. let's go to the white house. it is a little darker there than it normally looks but monica alba is at the white house which is where we know the president is. i'm trying to figure out, monica, where he is watching, whether he is brooding, where he is strategizing, whether there are people in there. we know there are people like rudy giuliani and a few lawyers who continue to counsel him on last-ditch attempts to hold on to his presidency. what is our best guess as to what is happening at the white house? >> reporter: one of the reasons it is hard to tell tonight in particular, ali, is because the president's twitter account has been suspended and locked until at least 7:00 a.m.
so that's only a few hours from now at this point, but that's why we've had essentially radio silence from the president since earlier this evening because he fired off those messages that had the potential to incite violence because they had so many misleading claims and where he essentially was condoning his supporters who stormed the capitol earlier today. so i can tell you, yes, the white house is pretty dark right now. usually around the 11:00 p.m. hour the exterior light that actually shine into the residence are turned off. that's pretty normal. but, of course, we're not usually broadcasting at these late hours, so that's why you have such an eerily quiet-looking white house. but if you see there the lights to the right of your screen, that is part of the residence. so it is very possible the president is awake, to your point, watching news coverage of himself, probably not very pleased with what everybody is reporting, and then it is this rare moment where he doesn't have the ability to weigh in in
the way we are used to seeing him fire off these tweets in the middle of the night. that has been a hallmark of the trump era and something we are just not experiencing tonight. twitter had said essentially if he deletes these very inflammatory tweets they will allow his account to be unlocked. if it doesn't, it will remain that way. so we were wondering whether the president was going to try to seek out other avenues for communicating with the american public. the white house decided this evening that they weren't going to have him do any on-camera remarks, any public events. they called a relatively early lid on a day where we really heard extended remarks from president-elect joe biden on the real chaos and violence we saw on the hill, but all we had from the president were those extremely controversial messages, of course. so important to point out a lot of the contributing factors to why what happened earlier today was so important was because the president was the one inciting that violence, urging his supporters to go to the hill, even implying he was going to join them when, of course, he
did not. so looking ahead to later today, i almost said tomorrow, ali, but, of course, it already is thursday. we don't know what the president has planned. his daily guidance and schedule has had the same very bizarre line now for days and days, which is he has nothing to share but that he will rise early and stay up late and have many, quote, meetings and many calls. something we're watching for though is what the vice president is going to be doing tomorrow. he and both the president had been scheduled at one point to address the republican national committee winter meeting down in florida. just think of the timing here, ali. this is really when they want to turn the page on the 2020 cycle, look ahead to the future, have 2024 potential hopefuls addressing republicans on what to expect in the years to come. we are now told both of those remarks may be on hold. the vice president may not be appearing in any capacity, and it is unclear whether the president will be either. we should remind everybody the gop put out a pretty forceful
statement earlier today condemning the violence and urging the president to do a lot more than what he did in these hours and in the chaos that unfolded that he did not really help stem in any significant way. ali. >> and i understand that the vice president is not going to that rnc meeting and that the vice president is still at congress and, of course, we don't know whether there will be any comments from the president after whatever happens. i'm not going to ask monica to get involved in this after midnight math that garrett and i have gummed up as much as we have. we will kuk bacome back to you talk to you as things develop at the white house, monica alba. thank you very much. as many watched what happened live on their tv screens, they took to social media to see what they were watching unfold. they were drawing comparisons between the rioters today and the peaceful black lives matter marches over the summer, this video circulating as selfies
were taken with the police and rioters that infiltrated the capitol. ben, you have been working over the last days starting with phone call between the president and brad raffensperger, secretary of state of georgia, in which the president kept on repeating, debunked theories about the voting in georgia that you were very, very easy -- you and your colleagues, it was very easy for you to tie back to conspiracy theory nonsense going around the internet, qanon-type stuff. >> yes, it was q anop. that's what it was. qanon has evolved to be about lexicon spri election conspiracy theories and the president needs to do this thing called cross the rubicon. they had a thing for the last month where they said the president should cross the
rubicon, a julius ceasaesar reference, to effectively kick off a civil war and declare a dictatorship. qanon supporters have been deeply into this idea that the president on january 6th would sort of save the day and with their help, you know, that he could end up at the end of january 6th being the next president of the united states. they thought he could do that in part because of the support that he had. if you watch these videos from today, you know, the very first person to really breach the capitol today, really push the people back, he was wearing a qanon sweat shirt. there was a guy known as the qanon shaman who goes around to the trump rallies
and says, q sent me. he was at the dias of the senate. they took over the capitol, qanon supporters, these people who believe that the world is
run by, you know, child-eating satanists. they took over the capitol today. it is in part because the president told them to come. he never denounced them, and they planned for a month for this specific day to say, hey, we're here and we are taking over. >> and i know there's at least one member who ran, who has now been sworn in as a member of congress from atlanta, who is a qanon adherent. there may be more than one, but they're in congress now as elected members. >> yeah, marjory taylor green of georgia who, you know, is one of these people voting, you know, on this objection right now. she is not just -- you know, she didn't casually play around with it. she wrote blog posts about the cabal of satanist, a las vegas shooting truther. she is purely of the info wars alternate reality and mindset and she is part of our government now. you know, i think that, ali, what scares me about this is
that this doesn't feel like the end of something today. it feels like the beginning of something to these people. they thought they could get away with this. they thought that they had support at the highest levels of the government, and, you know, in terms of the president they certainly did. >> you mentioned crossing the rubicon. that happened 270 years ago, the rubicon river was the border to enter rome. the deal was caesar, no general could enter rome under the command of their own troops because troops were for work elsewhere. they were for external threats. if you came into rome, rome was a civilian-run place. your military, your troops, your thugs had no role there. it is a strong principle of western democracies that a military or a militarized force has no role inside a country for domestic affairs. but basically what donald trump did is didn't use the military, but he used these troops. he used these people who he
essentially used as his troops to say, you storm the capitol. >> yes, and he planted these seeds during the debate with the proud boys where he said, stand back and stand by. if you cover extremism over the last few years you would know this. the proud boys are the big tent group. they organize rallies and get everybody riled up saying, hey, are you pro trump, do you think the government is messed up? come meet with us. they try to bring everybody in and try to get sheer numbers. by the time they're storming something, by the time they're messing with a protest, it looks like they have a lot of people. today they had a lot of people. it was a goon squad for the president. ali, i want to bring up something. there have been matt gaetz, you know, on the floor of
congress tonight said that this was an antifa thing. that is based on lies. it is based on pure and raw lies. it has already been debunked. one of the people they said was
antifa was the qanon shaman guy. we know him, we have been covering these guys for years, these were people that were alt-right people from 2016, 2015, who hung around the grift for so long. they were in nancy pelosi's office today. to try to go back and say, hey, you know, none of this was really us while also saying you're kind of proud of this. it is going to be a really weird narrative lift for them. i don't know if they will be able to pull it off, but the truth is donald trump's fringiest supporters, qanon, the proud boys, militia groups, they stormed the capitol today. it looks humiliating for them because they didn't have as much as they needed. now they're trying to back off it. it looks optically terrible. they are trying to find a way to thread this needle where they still look like legitimate political actors in this country, but really what they look like are insurrectionists. >> and what they are is
insurrectionists, insurrection that is being fed by donald trump who is attempting a coup in this country. ben collins, we are grateful for you and your team and your reporting on this because you have been screaming this stuff at the top of your lungs for a long time. a lot of people don't pay attention to it because it is kind of this online stuff, and i don't live in the deep web so it doesn't actually affect me. well, today it came and affected all of you because these people stormed your congress and four people are dead as a result of it, and your democracy is imperilled. ben, good to see you as always. ben collins is an nbc reporter. coming up, you are watching msnbc. re watching msnbc. it's time for the lowest prices of the season on
the ayes at 133. it is our policy at nbc however, we do not call votes based on what we see on the screen. we call the vote after it has been gavelled. we will expect that to happen shortly. nancy pelosi at the helm in the speaker's chair. once that happens, they will invite the senate, probably just the vice president in. they can only vote in groups of 54, which is why it takes a little bit longer. but 3:10 is what garrett told us, 3:10 a.m. is where we can expect this to end. i don't think that is nancy pelosi in the speaker's chair. i think she is down on the floor. but that's what we're waiting for. about 3:10 we will hear them invite the vice president in to certify the remaining votes, and the tallies at the bottom of your screen will end up with the tallies from the electoral college. joe biden will have 306 and that will be the end of that story. joining me now is democratic
congressman of illinois, a member of the house oversight and intelligence committees. congressman, good to see you. thank you for being with us. there are some of your members who are calling for the impeachment of donald trump over that phone call to raffensperger of georgia in which there were alternately threats and berating, of the president needing not however many votes he thinks were counted by 11,780, which is one more vote than he would need to win the state of illinois. the president's corruption appears to know no bounds this week. >> right. you know, i think that this is -- we thought that we had seen it all after the vladimir zelensky call, but it turns out there were a lot of calls like that and one of them was this
call to the secretary of state where he is trying to leverage his office to pressure another official, a government official to basically manufacture bogus facts, in this case bogus votes. i think that we thought that was kind of a new low, and then we hit today, ali. i got to tell you, today was, you know, we suspected something really bad was going to happen when we saw the president basically incite this mob to essentially, quote, unquote, go wild and go to the capitol. so he was the one who instigated this mob, and we saw the horrible outcome and aftermath of his instigation. >> so that instigation was to change the outcome of the election. violence was employed. people actually were killed.
i am interested in how you look at the words we use here, the word coup and the word terrorism. >> well, i think that george w. bush himself in a statement tonight, the former president, called this an insurrection, and that's a very strong word as well in addition to the word sedition. domestic terrorism for sure. i mean all of these words kind of connote an attack on our democracy, on the pillars of our democracy, in the temple of democracy itself. i think that's why, quite frankly, i think we didn't go as long tonight as i thought we were going to go. i think that the republicans, believe it or not, on the other side dropped a bunch of objections to different states because i think that they were
even -- i don't know what the right word is, but perhaps more subdued than they would otherwise have been because they saw the abyss. we saw the abyss today. the abyss of complete anarchy and chaos is what happens when you do what our folks on the other side are doing, which is trying to turn an election upside down and cast the ballots of millions of people aside and lie to their supporters about the reality of the situation. this is what ensues. >> congressman, good to see you. thank you for joining me tonight. the democratic congressman of illinois. we will have more of this unprecedented day on capitol hill has members of congress try to get this vote wrapped up. you are watching msnbc. robinhood believes now is the time to do money.
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