tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC October 10, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
good night from msnbc news headquarters tonight. >> three years ago this week, a comedian named hannibal burrows did a late night set at the chacadero and he did something he'd been doing for a long while but for some reason when he said it that specific night in october 2014, for some reason when he said it that night it set something off. >> public teflon image. i've done been on this stage and people don't believe me that i'm making it up. the it's like problems has a lot of rape elliss. people are like no! you do!
no. call me captain kick-em-out. hell no! that [ bleep ] is upsetting. if you didn't know about it it. trust me. when you leave here, google bill cosby. he's got more results than than malburrows. >> that's a clip from a comedy set three years ago this week in philadelphia. that joke he's making at the end about all the on-line search results you will find, more than you'll get from googling hannibal burrows's name, he was right about that. there were lots of allegations about bill cosby circulating more or less informally for years and you can google that stuff. so much at the time that burrows has been referencing that in his
standup. it was obscure enough that some of the laughter would be incredulous and wild, wow! that's a crazy thing to say but some other people saying, yeah, i've heard of that. he'd been doing it for a while but that specific night in philly, it took off. that clip of that portion of his show got picked up by philadelphia magazine dan mcquaide wrote it up for "philadelphia" magazine. comedian hannibal burr isz called bill crosby a rapist. it got picked up from that comedy routine. then that got picked up by multiple other news reports. it quickly became a sustained topic of national conversation and within just a few weeks, a woman who had previously made a serious sexual assault against
bill cosby wrote about that she said was her experience in the washington post. then cosby got asked about it himself in an interview on npr. then the day after that, another woman came forward to make turns out a similar allegations against bill cosby. then the day after that another, and the day after that, yet another woman came forward. this time it was a famous model, very well known named janay palmer -- janice dickenson. interestingly, news organizations started to come out with their own accounts of cosby over the years or people who worked for him over the years trying to stop news organizations or stop reporters from even asking about these eagles allegations, let alone from reporting on them in
detail. by the end of that next month by the end of november 2014, nine more women hat come forward. all with remarkably similar allegations about their experiences with bill cosby. these allegations dated back decades. some of them were in the 2000s. but some of them dated all the way back to the 1960s. it was women who had met him all over the country, women who had met him in all sorts of circumstances, professional and otherwise. the allegations were remarkably consistent in their descriptions. they alleged that they were drugged and then that they were assaulted. ultimately more than 50 women came forward to accuse bill cosby or rain or sexual assault or other kinds of sexual misconduct. those allegations really had been around for decades, though.
the today show and people magazine had both reported on a few of the allegations over the years. a civil lawsuit had been filed against cosby more than a decade ago. despite all that hiding in plain sight public record, despite the fact that there for a long time had been at least a few women who were willing to speak about what they said happened to him, despite those very googleable things, it took until the fall of 2014 for that story to blow open, which ultimately resulted in more than 50 women coming forward. the following year, 2015, bill cosby was charged in connection with one of his alleged victims' allegations. in june cosby went on trial and the result was a hung jury. the jury was deadlocked. bill cosby may or may not face a
retrial on the same charges again this upcoming spring. cosby is now 80 years old. he's reportedly getting new lawyers in time for that new trial. in july of last year, former anchor at the fox news channel named dprechen carlson filed a lawsuiting aing sexual harassment by roger ailes 678 the suit alleged that her career ended at fox because she refused sexual advances of ails. within days, new york magazine reported anonymous allegations from four other women, all of whom also claimed sexual harassment by roger ails at fox. fox started an internal review of the allegations. they never made a public accounting but whatever they found led to roger ailes leaving that company.
but they also gave him $40 million on his way out the door. soon there after they paid out another $20 million to gretchen carlson to settle her harassment allegations she'd made against ailes. even before those large payouts, this turns out to be a very expensive time at fox. we later learned that just as rogers ailes was being forced out and paid that $40 million on his way out the door, fox was also very soon after secretly paying another sexual harassment settlement against bill o'riley. and that secret payout to settle a sexual harassment allegation against him was followed by another former fox news host filing another sexual harassment lawsuit against o'reilly and fox
and then the new york times reported that o'reilly had paid more than 10 and a half million dollars over the course of a decade and a half. as remarkable as its has been to see the collapse, the public collapse of these previously untouchable, almost unimaginably powerful men in american politics and media and culture, honestly, it will not make sense to historians who try to look back on this remarkable time in american culture and politics and the collapse of all these ieks o icons, while at the same time they'll find themselves having to refer to this time period in our country as the trump era. >> i did on her. she was married. >> this was -- and i moved on her very heavily. i took her out furniture shopping. she wanted to get some
furniture. i told her i'll show you where to get some nice journey. i moved on her like a [ bleep ]. now she's got the fake [ bleep ]. >> she's in the purple. >> yes! >> whoa! >> oh, my man. >> you got to look. >> you are a [ bleep ]. >> can't be too happy. >> you and i will -- >> oh, my god. >> maybe it's a different one. >> better not be. >> it's her. >> yeah, that's her. got to use some ticktacks just in case i substantiate kissing her. i'm automatically attracted to beautiful -- when you're a star they let you do it. you can do anything. >> bhooer you want.
>> grab them by the [ bleep ]. you can do anything. >> that tape came out a year ago this week which was a bhofr the presidential election. one of the things we've talked about is that the day that tape came out a year ago this week, that day was one of the most insane news days in the election cycle. it's the strangests in american politics. that was the federal government trying to interfere, the access hollywood tape coming out bragging about groping women and getting away with it. that was followed immediately by wikileaks starting to dump the personal e-mails of chairman john podesta, his e-mails which had been hacked by the russians. that all happens on the same day. that happened before dinnertime. >> and in the days that followed the access whoid tape, more than
a dozen women came forward to make allegations that donald trump in fact had done to them in real life what he was bragging about on that bus. everything from forcibly pinning women down and kissing them without their consent to sexually groping women without their consent as he described on the bus. at one point candidate trump said he would sue all those women making allegations. he never did. he also disparaged those women as. a week after that, the feminist group ultra violate played that tape on a loop on the national mall for 12 straight hours. they aired it on a loop from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., just so
we'd get a reminder that the man sitting behind the oval office is the same guy who bragged about being able to get away with sexually assaulting women whenever he wanted to, because he's a star. it's the trump era. and president trump, like bill o'rile illike roger ailes before he died, like bill cosby, all of them deny these allegations against them. but this is the era that we are living in. and now it's whoid. on thursday, jody p cantkanter reported sexual harassment allegations against hollywood megaproducer harvey weinstein. we're going to talk about that new york times reporting. i'm happy about that. bring now you've heard the basics.
nearly 30 years of allegations. eight women named in the story, including ashley judd and rose bhk gown and again what these interviews show is a strikingly consistent pattern of alleged behavior. harvey weinstein allegedly isolating young women, getting them alone, women who were in a position of either directly working for him or being professionally deputy pent on him as a whoid producer and then the alleged behaviors just textbook sexual harassments up to and including serious sexual assault. taking off his clothes, exposing himself, dmapding sex, demanding sexual dakota r contact of various kinds, refusing to take no for an answer and eventually retaliating against young women who managed to rebuff what he was trying to do. and what the times broke on thursday is the stories of what
these eight women say happened to them when harvey weinstein got them alone but it's also the story of harvey weinstein not alone. it's harvey weinstein himself and the weinstein company trying to keep the lid on all these allegations, including at least eight reported cash settlements pied to women who made claims against harvey weinstein. but as in so many other instances like this, this is also the story of an open secret of this alleged behavior being something that was widely known and widely discussed in the industry. those of us who are outside the industry wouldn't necessarily have been privy to those rumors but you know what? because it's the show business industry, we can see evidence of that. we can see evidence of how widely this was understood and talked about and tacitly accepted in the fact that harvey weinstein's behavior toward
actresses and toward young women was joked about repeatedly, openly, like on tv shows and when they were announcing the oscar nominations. >> oh,s please. i'm not afraid of anyone in show business. i turned down intercourse with harvey weinstein than no less than three occasions. >> i know how former lovers can have a hold on you. in some ways, i'm still pinned under harvey weinstein. >> you no longer have to be pretend to be attracted to harvey weinstein. >> you hear people laughing and laughing. also people groaning. it's a joke, right? the reason the joke worked is because everybody knew what that was about. right? the premise of the joke was widely held enough that that was considered to be funny. right? at home run at an industry event
for the oscars and on tv in general for a national audience. what was well known enough to be a joke that would land as recently as like this time last week hozhas now because of this reportsing exploded. so now for the first time in decades it's costs harvey weinstein. the times followed up their initial reporting with harrowing further similar allegations from actresses including gwyneth paltrow and angelina jolie and a number of wam who left the industry in part because of what they say happened to them when they were caught alone with harvey weinstein. but now today, rhone an ferrell writing for the new yorker magazine has posted his own accounts. what he's written for the new yorker pushes the story even further arched makes the open secret of this will alleged behavior all the more
unfathomable. from the story code "i was told by 13 women that between the 1990s and 2015 harvey weinstein allegedly assaulted them. overlap that and include far more serious claims. three women told me that he raped them. of forcing vaginal sex. mara savino told me. . >> this may be at this point the most jaw dropping part of it. "16 16 former executives and assistants told me that they witnessed or had knowledge of
unwanted sexual advances and touching at events associated with weinstein's films and in the workplace. all 16 said that the behavior was widely known in both mere max and the weinstein companand. 16 people. i should tell you that harvey weinstein, his representatives respond the new yorker reporting. i'll read the statement "any allegations of nonconsensual sex are denied by mr. -- -- m
that's the response weinstein has made to this new reporting. what rowan adds to the story is tape. he has published the audio tape of a woman frankly, i mean to a lay observer, it's a woman actively being sexually harassed and pesteredably harvey weinstein. a tape in which he add many mitts that in the previous day he dprabd her breast. he explained by saying "i'm used to it." that tape was apparently made by the nypd as they investigated sexual assault claims by one woman who says she got out of harvey weinstein's clutches and went to the nearest police precinct to tell them she was
assaulted by harvey weinstein. we'll have that momentarily. but these allegations were nope and accepted, as in so many of these cases, coming to grips with this, in this case with harvey weinstein there's now as of today also the question of why this was never ever prosecuted anymore. in any of the decades these allegations were made or talked about and -- in at least one instance were reported directly to the police. stay with us. you nervous? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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. i'm not feeling very comfortable now. . that's a roareding of whoild megaproducer harvey weinstein secretly captured during a new york police department sting. that audience was on taped by rope an farrow who's written a harrowing account of the assault and rape allegations against harvey weinstein for the new yorker magazine. this follows reporting last
week, the end of last week from the new york times, joey kanter breaking that open and ronan farrow now joining us. nice to see you. thanks for being here. >> good to be here. i'm glad you're covering this, rachel. >> thank you for saying so. let me start with the tape. can you tell us the circumstances under which that tape was recorded and why it was recorded? >> there was a young woman, an italian-filipino model who in a pattern that has shown up again and again in story after story, harvey weinstein reached out to set up a meeting and when that meeting transpired at his office she said he gloepdler, are are grabbed her breasts. that's a potential misdemeanor that could bring up to six months in jail.
after the accident, she went to the police, the nearest precinct. we talked to a lot of sources who found her extremely credible. she went in in an act that everybody associated with this made her frightened but she thought she could expose and stop something. she recorded this with the police. it was a wired operation. >> this allegation she made that he had groped her and in response they said will you wear a wire and go back and have further contact with him? >> he was having contact with her again and again. he is very aggressive in following up with these women according to source after source. in this case he called her while she was with the police and they used that as an opportunity to set up this sting. >> so she goes back and has contacted with him. in the excerpt -- it's a longer tape. you heard even more than what you played, more than you published. >> absolutely. >> but in what we heard he's
being very persistent, trying to get her to go into his room with her. she asks him about the previous incident and he appears to admit to it. >> he says "i'm used to that," which for you or i would be strange. she's point-blank saying why did you touch my breasts. he had issued denials of this publicly and this was a report recording that sources close to the story said he understood was destroyed but people were angry about the fact that that was suppressed and it survived. >> so one of the may things that comes up in these cases, once the torrent of accusers come forward is statute of limitations. the new york police department and the manhattan d.a.'s office
put out statements today essentially saying it wasn't our fault that this didn't get prosecuted. what's your assessment? >> all i can do is say what the sources in the story said. one said this made me as angry as anything in my career. telling us think had the evidence. >> so rowan, in termsz of your reporting on this -- i don't want to ask you for sources you don't want to talk about. >> you know a story, there's a lot in there that's very sensitive but it's expansive how many people put their names on this, too. that's the bravery. >> i heard there was a race between the new yorker and the new york times in terms of getting this story that obviously, this was a long chase for you. you were working at nbc news when you wrote this. also we know that joey kanter and megan tu we were working on
this at the new york times. one question i have about this is why now? because these allegations go back more than 20 years, why are people willing to talk now. why were women willing to talk to you about something they hadn't previously? >> i'll address the last first. over and over again i heard from them, we feel a profound sense of guilt about it for what we saw. >> people who heard about it, knew it? >> a female employee who said she was asked to serve as a honey pot, be present to reassure that this was professional and would be asked to leave the hotel or other room. i talked to multiple, multiple employees who said we saw fear in these women's eyes. that is something that haunted a lot of these people. none of them quit as a result of it. i think that haunted them, too. still to this day some of them
spoke anonymously. >> what happens when you've been haunted by something for 10, 12, 15, 20 years becomes too much and you decide to talk? >> after the revelation about ailes and cosby, they felt like there was an atmosphere in which they could finally speak. that's not all noebel. they also said harvey weinstein specifically is less powerful now. we fear retaliation less. there was a pragmatic change. you see it again and again with these other men. these stories come out when they are less powerful. >> i was not supposed to keep you but i'm overalling everybody. a do you mind staying? >> i'll be happy to. >> we'll be right back.
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mr. weinstein is denying charges. thanks for being with us. >> good to be here. >> a couple of follow-up questions on this. i wanted to ask you because of your own family background and history -- >> sure. >> -- i feel you have some insight into the show business part of this. that's part of it i have to say i don't understand at all. you were just talking about the fact that maybe one of the reasons this dame out now, people were willing to basically willing to go public, saying he's not as powerful as he used to be. how important is that to understanding what's going to happen next in whoid? i mean, this is a whoid disgrace. that this was a huge open secret for decades. >> sure. >> and everyone tacitly allowed it and excused it. what do you think will happen in the industry? >> i don't think that this is a hollywood phenomenon. i don't think this is about harvey weinstein ultimately, i don't think this is about the
film industry. the abuse of power is something we see over and over again in every culture. i'm talking about powerful p.r. teams designed to smear people publicly. i'm talking about a legal team that uses aggressive nondisclosure settlements. these are attacks that women face when they speak out. >> did your sources, the women who spoke to you run up against that specifically in your reporting for this story and did you run up genls that? >> these sources absolutely ran up against that. >> the women who made the allegations? >> yes indeed. there's a woman quoted in this story who went on camera, on the record and i cry what she said to me which is the legal automatic is coming after me and she withdrew from the piece. she's a woman with serious allegation.
>> she detailed her allegation about weinstein with you, then withdrew -- >> on the record in january and then withdrew. >> what does that mean? >> source after source said they were receiving harassment calls. these women were afraid and based on my reporting legitimately afraid. >> afraid of weinstein permanently or afraid of people in his company or hired by the company? >> both. on a personal level they talk about the physical fear bovrn partly of trauma. after an incident like these alleged rapes, the actress who told a very difficult story of rape says she forever more in his thrall, so to speak, and fear for the machine, fear for their careers and livelihoods. these are women who were enme
enmeshed with mr. weinstein and his company. >> threats now? >> on going. i talked to one source h who had received multiple calls. >> you said one woman spoke on camera in january. why did you end up reporting this for the new yorker and not the nbc news? >> you would have to ask the executives. i'm not going to comment. i will say that over many years, many news organizations have circled this story and faced a great deal of pressure in doing so. there are now reports emerging publicly about the kinds of pressure that news organizations face in this and that is real. in the course of this reporting i was threatened with a lawsuit personally by mr. weinstein. we've already seen that the times has been publicly threatened.
i don't want to describe any other lawsuits against other organizations i work with. >> nbc says that you didn't -- that -- the story wasn't publishable. it wasn't ready to go by the time you brought it to them. obviously it was ready to go when you gave it to the new yorker. >> i walked into the new yorker with an explosive piece,0 that should have been reported. >> ronan farrow, i know parts of the story in erms the of the reporting side of it is not the easiest stuff to talk about it and i know you don't want to make yourself there center of the story. >> that is important. these women came forward with up credibly scary allegations. this should not be a story about me or the wonderful work that jody can'tor d-- joey kanter di.
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been subpoenaed. that's the top line news. the really interesting news, though, is who they got the speep from. congressman devan nunes chairs the house intelligence committee. you might remember that he supposedly stepped down from his role overseeing the russian investigation several months ago. but now he personally alone has issued subpoenas in the investigation to fusion gps. this news was first reported by cnn tonight. subsequently confirmed by nbc news. but although this wasn't totally clear in the initial reports we can confirm that the subpoenas were issued unilaterally by devan nunes himself with nobody else's signature on them and without any even notification to any gems on the committee that the subpoenas were going out. now, that's weird. congressman nunes of course was
a member of the trump transition team. he was forced to step aside from his role supposedly leading the russia investigation when he came under pressure in april. he paid that weird secret nighttime visit to the white house and repeated these false claims that the president has been secretly wiretapped at trump tower by the obama administration. devan nunes stepped aside after an investigation was launched into whether he disclosed classified information pulling off that weird white house stunt. devan nunes, though, while he says he's stepped aside from the investigation appears to have defined stepping aside in a way that doesn't necessarily resonate with anyone else's understanding of that definition. in may was reported that he was continuing to review intelligence on the russia investigation. that same month he unilaterally subpoenaed intelligence agencies in an apparently fruitless effort to turn the russia
investigation into an obama administration scandal. then in august he again without warning, democrats on the committee sent subpoenas looking for documents related to the trump dossier. threatening the agency if they didn't comply. as we know the justice department has still not complied. now we learn that devan nunes is throwing out subpoenas on his own personally. democrats on the house intelligence committee are learning about these subpoenas by reading about them in news reports. not only that, we can report exclusively tonight that these subpoenas were issued just one day after the staffers on the house intelligence committee, democrat staffers and republican staffers met with the legal counsel for fusion gps to discuss fusion voluntarily cooperating with the committee's investigation. we're told that that meeting between fusion and the committee
staffers, that con instructive meeting was held on tuesday last week. then despite that constructive meeting about cooperating, devan nunes sent out subpoenas the very next day to. the experience come after the fusion g.p. spent hours testifying this summer. following tonight's reporting about the latest subpoenas from devan nunes members of the committee met for a previously scheduled meeting. i would be very interested to know how that went down and i might have a way to tell you next. we come into this world needing others. ♪ then we are told it's braver to go it alone. ♪ but there is another way to live. ♪
. there's the robert mueller special counsel investigation into the russian attack into our election and whether the trump campaign colluded it. then there's the investigation into that. then there's the senate judiciary committee investigation into that. then there's the house intelligence committee investigation into that. on top of all of those things, there's another one. there is a member of the trump transition team, a republican trump loyal list congressman whom we all thought was recused from the original investigation, but he is now issuing his own subpoenas on this matter.
devan nunes had sent them his own subpoena. we're not sure why. i'm also not sure how he can too that if he's just the one dude. joining us now is congressman eric swallow who sits on the house intelligence committee. congressman thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me on. >> do you appreciate my confusion as to how congressman nunes whom i thought was recused from this matter is himself issuing his own subpoenas? >> just a couple of weeks ago he actually tried to subpoena skbref sessions. so it was a recused chairman subpoenaing a reaccused attorney general on the issue of russia. to today when we met, we're not
suppliesed anymore. actually, there's a pattern here that as we make progress or the press makes progress on the story, that's when this nonsense shows itself. it's the act that you would expect from donald trump's legal team, not from an independent investigation, but we're determined. we are continuing to make progress and i would just say rachel if he had the interest in what was behind the dossier, not the progress or the process that led to the dossier, we could find out a lot more. as a lot of people mentioned in the dossier who should be subpoenaed, like donald jr. or michael cohen or jared kushner. those are the people who should be hauled in under subpoena. >> you talk about the nancy by chairman nunes. i have to ask if it's safe if the targets of these subpoenas
ignore them. we know that the justice department subpoena that you mentioned that he sent out was basically ignored by the justice department. we know that some of the other agencies told the public that he refused to answer the key question about his involvement in the russian hacking, which is who he was talking to with wikileaks and whether with it was julian assange or not. he said he was not under speep, he was there voluntarily, so he did not have to answer that. we're letting witnesses set
their own terms. we're going in the wrong direction and we are at risk of having a flat earth report come out of the house intelligence committee as to what happened with russia. >> a flat earth report. that's -- those are striking terms. i know you attended a house intelligence committee hearing this evening. can i ask about how things are on the committee if you're trying to sound the alarm that the ultimate report on this committee is something we ought to worry about in terms of its integrity? >> we are all inspired by rapging member adam schiff who is leading a good investigation and who is dogged into leading us into finding what happened. you see unity on the senate side with senators burr and warner and then disunity on our side.
we have a bazaaro report, i think that helps the russians perpetuate their narrative that this was something that was made up, it's not true and actually in that chaos, they will thrive and be able to come out as -- again. >> thanks for helping us understand this. we're getting into some weird times with this story. thanks for helping us make sense of it. we'll be right back. with stay with us. ♪
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. before we go. i want to talk about a story we talked about with ronan farrow who reported a follow-up piece on what the new york times published about harvey weinstein last week. this is a story that obviously has been breaking over the course of the last several days. the allegations that ronan was able to report in terms of that police department sting, also in
terms of the rape allegations make the new york times story that more important. we're going to have joey kanter here tomorrow night. we'll hear more on reported out versus when it was going to be an open secret that people knew about but didn't discuss. i want to say we'll have more on that tomorrow. thanks for being with us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. another extraordinary and moving hour of television. i want to update you on the weinstein company during your hour, issued a statement, and this is from the remaining board members, a bunch of them have quit. but there is a group left. and they said these alleged actions are antithetical to human decency. these allegations come as an utter surprise to the board. any suggestion that the board had knowledge of this conduct is false.