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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  August 21, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." the president's address to the nation on the future of the afghanistan strategy. meanwhile, the ba"the beat with melber" starts right now. i apologize to you. the horrible sounds you heard a couple of offices down from you earlier today, i'm sorry, that was me singing bonnie tyler's total eclipse of the heart. i apologize. >> good music can bring in any -- >> it wasn't good. ear splitting and painful. >> thank you, katy. >> thanks. a total eclipse is very rare. especially in politics. president trump began his first work week without steve bannon today and got a taste of bannon taking shots from outside the castle. signs the pressure will continue on his opponents like h.r.
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mcmaster and trump family members. breitbart may be a place to settle scores, but the white house trying to turn the page with a new foreign policy address tonight. bannon is free to do anything he wants now, from cutting deals, to getting paid. but it looks like what he wants most is to be getting paid attention. the conventional take on bannon fixates on ideological loyalty. will he back any white house agenda, or will he take some new role as an enforcer, trying to say what trumpism really stands for. there's actually another fault line here. we're seeing it today. the commodity that matters more to trump than any ideology is attention. people marveled today at the solar eclipse because of its raw beauty and because it reverses everything we know. the sun is always the powerful center of our solar system. the moon merely orbiting around the earth, and the moon's light drawn solely from the sun's reflection. it's a total reversal to see the
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moon eclipse the sun, like a pawn eclipsing the king, even for a moment. steve bannon is the moon to donald trump's sun. people only know bannon because of trump's reflected light. and anytime he comes close to eclipsing trump's attention, gracing a magazine cover, taking credit for trump's rise, donald trump has grown angry with his adviser. not over ideology or policy, but over stealing his sunlight. >> i like mr. bannon. he's a friend of mine. but mr. bannon came on very late, you know that. i went through 17 senators, governors, and i won all the primaries. mr. bannon came on very much later than that. and i like him. he's a good man. he is not a racist. i can tell you that. he's a good person. he actually gets a very unfair press in that regard. >> it was this political eclipse that moved up bannon's ousting.
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we know this because there's a new report in "the new york times" that says the white house agreed to fade out bannon later this summer. and because of his comments to, guess who, the media. if trump ousted bannon for not knowing his place in the solar system, and it's called a solar system because everything rotates around the sun, did trump make this problem worse by freeing up bannon to be even louder on the outside? breitbart now, today, alleged with hits against trump aides and family. bannon reportedly considering getting into political tv. and a former staffer playing the trump card here might end up being trump's worst nightmare. eclipses are not only rare. they can be dangerous. which is why you never look directly into one. i'm joined now by olivia, washington correspondent for "new york magazine," and the president of victory fund.
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olivia, starting with you, can bannon eclipse trump more easily now that he's out of the white house? >> well, i think we're going to find out. if he does decide to go into conservative television, which there's been some speculation about, perhaps that could happen. you know, donald trump certainly will be paying attention to it. but if you look at breitbart today, you know, the tone there, and the reporting, if you can call it that, the writing that they have on there today is not totally different than it has been in the past. they have been reporting on ivanka and aggregating negative stories for ivanka for months. it seems like they are unchanged now. maybe they were holding back a bit before and they feel free to say whatever it is that they want to say now. i think it's highly unlikely that bannon will be more of a problem for donald trump outside of the white house than he was inside of it. i think there will be less interest in general in steve bannon. i think donald trump will ultimately probably will move
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on. >> aeisha? >> few people are more of a problem for donald trump than donald trump is nor donald trump. my biggest concern is what bannon is up to, i'm concerned about the destruction that he has intended for america. you know, people are cheering and celebrating the fact that he's out of the white house. i am really concerned about what he's taking away from the white house. this man had high-level security clearance and is a rampant bigot and has a, quote unquote, plan, and i'm afraid of what secrets he's taking with him to eradicate, quote unquote, the moderate people in the white house to stop his radical agenda. >> you mention state secrets. there was a lot of back-and-forth of how much access he had about the international planning. and he told friends he wants to give his account of the comey firing to special counsel mueller. believes the decision was made during an early may weekend.
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that's more than a typical interview, if you do it with mueller. >> that's correct. steven bannon has been playing the really interesting long game here. he sided with president trump in his campaign, because they had a mutual goal. they had a mutual ideology at the heart of this. and i think what we're going to see now is, now that bannon is out on his own and independent, i think he's going to be playing his own game. where there intersects with president trump, he'll cooperate with him. i think we'll see a lot of moments that we're going to see a rift between them and a lot of attention. >> you talk about the power of narrative, and as a political matter, steve bannon and breitbart was pushing years ago considered not repeatable by republican nominee. his supporters showed an alarming knack for taking the narrative and extending them to
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logical or illogical extremes. was clinton in the cabal of jewish bankers, who subsisted on the blood of children. it is 2017. i am just reading from the factual accounting in your book. neither hillary clinton or donald trump are satanists. but how it relates to bannon is someone who does push narratives into the mainstream, they don't stay. what happens on bite baright ba not staying on breitbart. >> what we were seeing in the campaign, when bannon came onto the trump campaign, we saw him refine donald trump's message. which a lot of time was sort of a scatter shot, shotgun strategy. once bannon came on, you know, we saw the teleprompters come out. we saw the script come out. what we saw was that bannon refined this message and made
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sure that he hit all of the dog whistles that trump needed to hit, while making comfortable people who might have been uncomfortable with the racism at the heart of the campaign. a lot of the narratives were simply hinted at, and we saw them being completed by the supporters. >> you're shaking your head. >> yeah, so the thing about this conversation that really has me anxious, and i appreciate jared's reporting on all of this that i've read, is that we are having a very civil conversation about that essentially normalizing a man who is trying to, and has been successful in indoctrinating america and people globally around very fascist, racist, neo conservative ideas. this is dangerous stuff. this isn't some random dude who's good at communications. we're talking about someone who is planning to raise millions of dollars to create a tv entity to continue to push these lies, these hateful messages and really give a platform to hate. i think that's what we need to be focusing on as opposed to
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trying to dissect and rationalize and really give trump celebration to the strategy of this crazy lun a it tick. >> i'm sorry, look, we're not normalizing, or trying to rationalize anything that steve bannon believes. but we don't have confirm of what his plans are outside of returning to breitbart. we don't have anything confirmed about how much he's going to continue to be in contact with the trump administration. history suggests he will remain in donald trump's ear, as many as his ex-aides have. i think it's ridiculous to say just having a civil conversation about this and dealing with the fact as we know them to be right now is in any way going to be detrimental to this country. we need to talk about the facts and we need to dissect them and analyze them in a civil way. >> the kkk marches on charlottesville, that is the fact of the matter. are we going to believe what we rationalize or what we see in front of our faces that we know this man has given rise to over the last several years.
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i think that we need to be having a much more forceful conversation about the detriment that this human being is doing on our society and figuring out strategies to block and tackle through that and really negate his ability to spread hate. >> i appreciate it. i think we're talking about a couple of layers, values, what do people want to confront in our society, and facts, what we're trying to nail down on the factual front. appreciate each of you joining us tonight. >> thank you, ari. i'm going to have on the show tonight an editor from breitbart to discuss what the segments -- what we just discussed in this segment, what steve bannon wants to do and what breitbart stands for. and we'll check some of their reporting. but first, president trump heading to tv tonight. he wants to do a primetime speech about his afghanistan strategy. and according to reports, he'll be announcing the addition of thousands of u.s. boots on the ground.
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a purple heart recipient, director of government relations at vote vets.org, i want to thank you for your service, and for giving us some of your expertise tonight. what do you think is most important for people to know about what we're up against in afghanistan now? >> thank you very much for having me on, ari. i think what people are going to see tonight is first and foremost a reality tv show huks ter. we'll see through the lens of neilsen ratings in somebody whose numbers and poll numbers continue to go down, especially in the wake of equivocating on not seizing white supremacists and believes if he merely changes the script or throws in a plot twist for a major character, that he can somehow have more viewers, or be more popular next week. >> do you think the addition of troops could be constructive for the mission? >> there is not a military solution to afghanistan.
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the solution in afghanistan is going to be coming through diplomatic efforts, and that is not going to happen through just merely throwing more troops into afghanistan with no plan. you would think that after 16 years, even the most neophyte of leaders would be able to see that throwing more troops in afghanistan, with no plan, is not a winning strategy. >> what do you think about the fact that his current plan as reported contradicts his past tweets about afghanistan? >> well, i mean, when does donald trump not seem to contradict himself. i wouldn't dare try to, you know, go spelunking into the mind-set of donald trump and figure out how his brain works. but look, what are we going to see tonight? from what the plan sounds like, we're going to -- it's going to be the status quo. it's going to be a continuation of kicking the can down the road and of merely not losing, right?
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merely not losing. and that's what we're going to hear tonight. now, of course, because it's donald trump, because he is sort of this carnival barking personality, it's going to be the status quo delivered in a likely bombastic way. and of course, if his recent claims on twitter of any indication, it could even, you know, be advocating for war crimes. >> will fisher, appreciate your views. we continue to have an invitation to the white house to explain the strategy. thank you. >> thank you, ari. we will be carrying the presidential address tonight, rachel maddow will be part of our coverage. you can catch it there. now, coming up, there are more charities over the weekend pulling out of events at mar-a-lago responding to donald trump's rhetoric on race. we have someone who is advocating a boycott. also, new revelations about the russian lobbyist who attended that meeting at trump
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tower, including new reports that he was tied to international hacking. and later in the show, we have a look at perhaps the most common trump defense. he was just joking. but this can be a serious matter. we'll show you the tape and speak to a linguist about how it works. i'm ari mel ber, and you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. nn. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. it's our back to school beeone cent evente. at office depot office max. 10 pack pens, one cent. composition notebooks,scissors, and plastic folders all one cent each! hurry to office depot office max. ♪taking care of business.
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over his charlottesville comments, and this pressure is not political. it's on trump's bank account. over the weekend more charities bailing on events planned for mar-a-lago, that can run up to $275,000 a night. they could ultimately cost donald trump millions. the moves are a hit to his brand, because top charities like the red cross are sending a message that trump's properties are at this point too divisive to even visit. the broader question is whether trump is facing a business backlash. the campaign already losing
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hotel bookings. a tool for economic justice from the civil rights era they're saying should be deployed now. nate learner from the democratic coalition created the boycott trump app. is this something that you see changing the bottom line of the trump organization, or is it merely a pr headache for a president who follows pr? >> that's the big question right now. is this a turning point for us or just another one of the long line of scandals, that we make a big deal about and move on to the next one. it is really to bring him down at every turn. we firmly believe this is a huge opportunity to do that. we applied to the charities that stepped back. >> i've been thinking about this. you look at the charities, do you think they agree with you because you've been calling these boycotts for a while on a wide set of what you call policy, and moral disagreements with the president? or do they just want to get out
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of something that's too hot? >> i think a little of both. but obviously they do not stand by what the white nationalists represent. for the organization to do that, that was very brave of them, and we certainly applaud them for that. >> you say political. and there are a lot of groups who claim they're apolitical. oil companies say we don't have any political position. in fact, when you dip under the hood, look at them, they're doing all kinds of lobbying. this seems a little different, which is why it's interesting what you've been up to. let me read what laurel baker did, palm beach chamber of commerce. also business oriented. quote, if you have a conscience, you're really condoning bad behavior by continuing to be there at mar-a-lago. look at your mission statement. are you living up to it.
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that standard, who should be going to mar-a-lago? >> anybody who opposes what the white nationalists, let's call them what they are, nazis in many regards, what they stand for. if you believe in equality, if you don't believe in discriminating against people based on where they're from, ethnicity, color of their skin, you shouldn't be associating with trump in any way. we believe the best way to fight back against that is by taking action. words are great, but at the end of the day actions do speak much louder. so hit him where it hurts, all the better. >> nate learner on the boycott, thank you very much. "the new york times" reporting today that the russian lobbyist at the center of the trump tower meeting has deeper ties to the oligarchs than previously known. and a history of working for close allies of president putin. with me is the reporter who broke this story, ken vogel from "the new york times." thank you for being here.
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>> hello, ari. >> took a long time to read, long story. i want to focus on what's newest, which as i just mentioned is this figure, and also, his links to international hacking campaigns never previously exposed. tell us what you found. >> so when this guy's name was first revealed as having been present at this meeting, with donald trump jr., jared kushner and paul manafort in trump tower at the height of the campaign season in june of last year, it was unclear to his associations and whether there was any etiological conditions that ran through them, politicians, former politicians in the soviet union seemed all over the map. we decided to dig deeper into this guy and his affiliations, and we found that the one etiological consistency was that he was always either working in sort of the interests of the kremlin or at least not in opposition to it. that was his business. that's what brought him into the
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association of the deputy director of the sfb, as well as the pro-kremlin oligarchs on whose behalf he was involved in campaigns that appeared to have a hacking element to them. >> give us context. folks sitting at home going, okay, is this something a lot of different international companies are affiliated with, espionage hacking? >> in short, yes. this is a big part of -- the corporate espionage, we see it here in the u.s. we see it particularly when there are foreign actors who are involved against u.s. companies. but there's a lot more common in, you know, abroad particularly in some of these former soviet states. this guy really played a role in this sort of murky foreign influence, lobbying game that in washington does not get a lot of coverage, but underlies a lot of these international disputes where it's helpful for folks who
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are in washington doing their bidding who have access to people in the corridors of power. >> so where does this go from here? you mentioned he's under special scrutiny. what's the term of art as you put it? >> yeah, he's someone who special counsel, robert mueller, and his team have expressed an interest in. they are looking into this meeting as really one of the best examples of the trump folks, trump associates in this case, his son, son-in-law and then campaign chairman, expressing an interest in meeting with russians who are promising something that is deviously -- improperly obtained, and potentially damaging to hillary clinton. this guy was in this meeting. so he's a subject of interest and he has this rich back story that we think makes him more interesting to mueller and his team. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, i'm going to talk to a top editor at breitbart about steve bannon and what he's
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can you say affirmatively that whenever the president says something, we can trust it to be real? >> if he's not joking, of course. >> that is the big question when it comes to trump's sayings. let me know if it's really real. when trump's words get him in trouble, the white house often says he's just joking. when he bizarrely thanked putin for taking countermeasures against u.s. diplomats. >> i'm very thankful he let go t of a large number of people because we have a smaller payroll. >> now he says the line was facetious? >> were you being sarcastic when you thanked putin for expelling -- >> in order to reduce our
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payroll, absolutely. we have reduced payroll very substantially. >> same drill for trump's comments about the serious topic of police brutality. >> like when you guys put somebody in the car, and you're protecting their head, you know? you put your hand -- like don't hit their head, and they've just killed somebody, don't hit their head? i said, you can take the hand away, okay? >> trump managed to offend police groups and police critics in that line. both spoke out about damaging suggestions that the police should commit crimes of their own by roughing up a suspect. >> i think you guys are jumping, trying to make something out of nothing. he was simply making a comment, making a joke. it was nothing more than that. >> making a joke. trump's most incriminating comments about russia, that public request for e-mail assistance. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing.
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>> how can you accuse president obama of obstructing when he's egging russia on? >> he was joking at the time. >> he was joking? >> the russia exchange. spicer said a year later after the evidence emerged that russia did hack e-mails and trump's top aides met with people who claimed to be working on behalf of russia. if it breaks, it's not funny. what if it breaks the law. how funny would that be. george joins me who wrote a celebrated book on language. explain to us what you think this joke defense does? >> well, it's not a joke, first. the main thing is, it can be said to be one. you know, in defense. but mainly, what it does is say something extreme, that's out of the ordinary, but actually send
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a message. and that message, when you send it, is very real. it says, hey, rough up some suspects. it says, yes, get information about hillary. it says, you know, yes, you know, do all sorts of things that you ordinarily would not do. it is a message. and the fact that it is out of the ordinary and extreme suggests that it is not to be taken seriously. but when said by the president, it is taken seriously. and the message is there. because it's repeated over and over. when you have something like that in the press, the press repeats it, over and over, hundreds and hundreds of times, and that message does get out there. >> so if it gets the message out, but then is a back door away from it, is it a way of basically having your message cake, if you will, but avoiding
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responsibility ultimately because you say, well, i didn't advocate that? >> that's exactly right. and trump has done this all through his career. he speaks of what he calls truthful hyperbole in business, where he says this is the greatest so-and-so, we're going to have the best health care plan, we're going to build this beautiful wall and mexico is going to pay for it, et cetera. he'll say this extreme thing and it will go out and be understood. when you're saying it to a customer, and you say, this is the, you know, the greatest casino you'll ever invest in, you know, that may not be the greatest, but it's supposed to be a good investment, et cetera. a good salesman can be convincing about that. but it raises the question about whether that's to be taken seriously. >> right. that's the question, george, take a listen to how often that question comes up with his staffing. >> by the way, you're going to
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get the votes? he better get them. he better get them. otherwise i'll say, tom, you're fired. does everybody like micky? otherwise she can easily be replaced, right? this was the one we were worried about. you weren't there. but you're going to be. look, he wants to remain a senator, doesn't he? >> the difference here being, you have live laughter. it doesn't seem like something that's later claimed to be a joke. those seem to be recognized as perhaps nervous laughter as jokes in the moment. what's going on there? >> what's going on there is a veiled threat. a threat that he can run someone against a congressman, or a senator. but it comes out as something like, well, i want to win, and you're going to make me win or else, quote, you're fired, as if this was on tv, and just a game. but it's not a game.
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this is politics. and the fact is, that this is a veiled threat. it says, you better do everything you can, or else. and when he threatens, that's important. because it says that the person he's talking about is not doing his job. it says this person is inadequate. and that's important. and that's, for example, the threats to fire sessions and mueller, when he says mueller had better not go into business, there's a red line there. that's a threat to fire mueller. >> linguist george lacoff, we always learn from you. thanks for being here. >> my pleasure. up next, we're going to talk to the editor in chief on breitbart on steve bannon's future.
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♪ ♪ ♪ america's political press often focuses on domestic news and even political drama. the daily topics tend to be somewhat different at breitbart, the influential conservative site back in the action after steve bannon returned there over the weekend. on this monday evening, the lead stories include criticism of trump's afghanistan plan from a former general and from eric prince. there are reports on isis funding and franklin graham arguing islam is not a religion of peace and all of islam controls people through fear and intimidation. the london section has 11 different articles reporting on
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the islam related issues. this emphasis like other parts of breitbart reflects both something that exists, the global presence of militant islamic terror that aim to murder, as well as something that seems to exist in steve bannon's mind, that islam is not a religion of peace and that the u.s. war on isis is to some extent a religious clash as "the new york times" reported. bannon spoke at the vatican and said the judea christian west is at war with islam. i'm joined by editor of chief of breitbart london, rahim. thanks for joining me. >> thank you for having me. >> your work, and much of what's on breitbart, emphasizes this threat of radical islamic terrorism. how do i think this trump administration is doing to combat it? >> well, i think they made a good start by going for the travel ban. i know there was a little bit of
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obstructionism for it. and i think it was -- look, i think it's fair to say it was misrepresented in a lot of quarters as a muslim ban. i understand what trump said during the campaign. but that's a good start. the immigration act is a very good way to go as well. you're kind to mention my book. i walked through the problems that we're facing. i grew up in a muslim family in the united kingdom. i worked through the problems not just that the west is facing, but actually muslims are facing in the west for other muslims trying to radicalize them and draw them into an interpretation of the koran. and our reporting as you just said, yeah, absolutely, those reflect that. we focus on that quite heavily. because we have a prime minister in the united kingdom that says sh sharia can be good for britain. >> rahim, when you mentioned the coverage of the ban, surely you understand why people, many people believe it is targeting at least muslim majority nations
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and muslims, because that's what the president said as a candidate he planned to do. >> that's exactly what i just said. i think that's a fair criticism. what i don't think is a fair criticism is to say what this ended up as. there are many muslim countries, majority muslim countries that weren't included on this travel ban list. when you look at the nations that were actually listed, these were the same nations that the obama administration was placing extra scrutiny upon for migrants and even visitors. so i think it got blown a little bit out of proportion there. >> only for visitors at that point. in other words, the visa issue with those countries, as you probably know, was about people who passed through them and that sent up a flag. the obama administration didn't have that they posed a threat. >> this administration has obviously looked into that and said there was a list, and we're going to take that list and expand on this, because there's a national security aspect here. i'm sympathetic to that. i think that, look, he went through the campaign saying he's
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going to make america safe again. he can't get into the white house and not do anything to make america safer. we have a problem with radical islam in europe. if you include this weekend's attacks, 32 terrorist attacks in europe, this year alone. that is a huge number. that is epidemic levels. two of those attacks were not linked to radical islam in some way, shape or form. i think it's fair for the president to try to stop that happening here. >> you mentioned your background which is interesting and brings expertise to it. the thing about breitbart as you know is some of the articles and the way things are presented seems to suggest the idea that any association with islam is problematic. here's a current one on hmplt r. mcmaster, known to tangle with steve bannon, and you have h.r. mcmaster endorsed book that advocates quuran. it's by yousafzai which sounds
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like a person you would want on your side in all this. senior adviser at the u.s. counterterror force there at the dia. a reserve officer and a military professor, in the islamic studies at national defense university. why present to readers the idea or the suggestion that it would be negative for h.r. mcmaster to be working with, or complementing the research of this official? >> that's a great question. i'll explain it in full. so there are lots of people who understand this issue very well. but they come at the issue from different sides. you know, i'm one of the people who believes islam is not a religion of peace. i don't believe muslims are there for aggressive violence and prone to radicalism. what i believe is if we protect them from it, that's the best thing we can do, only by tackling the radicals. for instance, in the united kingdom, there is a liberal commentator, a practicing muslim, a reformist. but he gets labeled by the
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southern poverty center as a hatemonger because he publishes sharia. i wouldn't necessarily advise h.r. mcmaster, because he has other solutions -- >> i don't want our viewers to get lost on the people. but what about the individual that is cited in the breitbart article, what about him? >> i don't know mr. abull. i'm not familiar with his work. i can't comment on that. i'm the editor of breitbart london, and that didn't run in breitbart london. but i can understand if you have a different solution to tackling radical islam, maybe he has a great idea of how to attack radical islam, but he simply doesn't have the same idea we have to do it, but why can't we criticize that view, you guys do that all the time. >> i think that's a whole part of this. >> yes. >> i guess the question i'm getting at, i take your point that a website has much ingredients to it, is that the way it's done there seems to suggest that the main problem
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with him is the desire to understand islam or doesn't share what we quoted, the bannon view that the entire religion of 1 billion-plus people is somehow -- >> no, hold on. it's not a religion of a billion-plus people. there are a billion-plus muslims. but they don't all subscribe to sharia. >> no, certainly. nor did i. >> you can't put them all in one box. everyone says this religion of a billion-plus people, they all believe different things. it's so unfair when we lump everybody in together and say this is who we're at war with. let's be very clear about this. we're at war with sharia. which is a fascist ideology that says you should cut off a person's hand or foot if they get in the way of the spread of islam. read the book. i know islam. we're trying to save muslims from getting radicalized.
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we don't want to lump them all in together. >> i take your point there. and certainly the use and "bus of sharia and militant islam, state-sponsored situation of isis. a wannabe state. you talk about lumping. this is an issue we want to get your response on in regard to breitbart. the categorization on breitbart uses the religious tags to do what you call lumping. a whole category of articles, migrant sex attacks. black kricrime in the united states. another tag of illegal immigrant crime. isn't the problem the crimes? why the fixation on only looking at certain crimes by certain individuals? >> well, i don't -- again, i'm the editor of london so i can't report on the black crime stuff. i'm not a company spokesman. i'm here to talk about, i was booked to talk about steve bannon of the white house. >> but this is related.
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but go ahead. >> look, i'm just explaining for the viewers. so i'll talk about the sex attacks one. that's one i was directly responsible for. we had in 2015 this opening of the borders, this come one, come all claim from angela merkel that forced a real crisis in europe. it forced a crisis not just on europe's borders, inside european nations, it's forcing a crisis of integration that these people aren't getting jobs, by the way. if you look at what happened in cologne, just a couple of years ago now, where over 1,000 people of migrant background raped, groped and harassed young women at the central station in cologne, that is a legitimate thing to worry about. you know, across the filter, this is what breitbart is supposed to be. you have different news organizations that represent different viewpoints. this channel is no different. we want to represent the things that are not covered by what we deem the mainstream media, the establishment media. and this migrant sex attack thing is a real problem.
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the statistics are very clear. i laid them out in my book as well. if anyone's not sure of the data, it's all there. i'm not trying to scare people. i don't need to scare people. what's going on is horrific. it's not just to nonmuslims that they're ataking, by the way. >> certainly not. >> this is not what liberalism is about. >> in the u.s. context, you mentioned steve bannon and the coverage and the way president trump also speaks about it, there seems to be, as i mentioned, this effort on only looking at crimes based on the perpetrator. as you probably know the trump administration is the first in many, many decades to try to have tracking of only the perpetrator, in this case they've looked at immigrants, you know, from mostly mexico and other south american countries. this is a sea change. we're running out of time, but you'll get the final word, why move to this approach? i'll put up on the screen, for example, the bare fact that the
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u.s. census found immigrants show incarceration rates and less likely to commit crimes than the average american populous historically. if they aren't as great a threat in regards to incarceration, and look at crime, who did them, does it concern you that breitbart, now this administration seems to be pushing the idea of caring more about crimes based on who did them than the overall data? >> it doesn't concern me. but yeah, i agree there is a balance to be struck there. you know, nobody thinks of australia as a fascist country, but it has an immigration policy that necessarily discriminates. it discriminates if you've got a criminal record, in all sorts of different things. so does canada. nobody thinks of that as a country that is a discriminatory country. but it does actually discriminate as to who can come into the country based on their background, based on health things even, right? that is what's going on here. what you're trying to do is trying to drill into the pros
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and cons of who you're actually bringing into your country. if they come from a place whereby they are more prone to terrorism, there should be more scrutiny on those people. if they come from a place they've committed a crime in their country, there should be more scrutiny on those people. i'm of the belief, look across europe as a result of this, the large-scale immigration that's happening in europe at the moment is leading to higher crime rates amongst migrants because they're unable to get jobs. >> that's a fair point. i don't know you're being responsive to the question, whether it's good for the u.s. under trump or breitbart under bannon to lump and track selectively? i'm out of time. a final thought if you want to be responsive. >> yes, i think there's a balance to be struck, though. i think we shouldn't ignore it. we shouldn't only focus on it. that's what's happening. >> raheem, i appreciate you spending time with us and sharing your views. >> thank you. i want to turn to james peterson a professor at lehigh
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university who studies many of these i. your reaction to raheem on these things under discussion in the government. >> right. i think raheem's comments were interesting. your exchange ari. but i want to give folks, in terms of breitbart america, a little bit of history. because when we think about this now with breitbart, what happened with the relationship going forward with the white house, we have to understand the historical synergy of breitbart and trumpism. you're aware of this because we covered this when things happened. you might remember the acorn story from several years back when they released this video showing they were engaged in some kind of prostitution effort. we realize that the edit they initially posted was like fake news. same around sherod who was in the agricultural department in the government. the video released made it seem like she was saying racist
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things. and after they saw the whole video, it was shown she wasn't. so much so that they tried to rehire her afterwards. their news stories and even some headlines that you've read here are often misleading and played to the base of what we think of as being trump's supporters. bannon's move now might be different, evidenced by the headlines we see on breitbart. pushing back against certain enemies he established within the trump administration. >> james peterson from lehigh university. appreciate you joining us. i would love to have you back on the beat. >> thanks be ari. , be ari.
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here eone piece of news we all know about by now. this amazing eclipse that wept across the continental united states today. we watched it here. a few of us went out into the rockefeller center plaza. we had the glasses of course. we had a partial eclipse. we also had something unusual, these days, if you think about it. national experience. people on planes, sight from your window seat. nasa released this beautiful image.
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this is natural symmetry here. the seven frames that shows the international space station as it crossed the face of the sun and of course, yes, a big moment at the white house. this image going viral across social media. another clip has gone viral too. sign-off by abc anchor frank reynolds after the last eclipse in '79. >> not until august 21, 2017 will neither eclipse be visible from north america. that's 38 years from now. may the shadow of the moon fall on a world of peace. >> amen. i don't know if we're a world of peace but we can keep trying. the next eclipse for north america is seven years away in 2024. that does it for me, i will see it here tomorrow night, i hope, at 6:00 eastern.
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"hardball with chris matthews" is up next. bannon unleashed. let's play hardball. >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. remember this piece of advice prt god faerm. the movie, i mean. keep your friends close and your enemies closer. well, president trump may want to study up on that one now that he released steve bannon into the wild. over the week enthe president tweeted these warm words to the man he just fired. steve bannon will be a tough and smart new voice at breitbart. maybe even better than ever before. fake news needs the kcompetitio. there's trump trying to soften up his opponent. bannon said he would remain a fighter for president trump. he told

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