tv Morning Joe MSNBC March 9, 2017 3:00am-6:01am PST
the goal of the event is to shine a light on the president's recent actions that they say are tearing immigrant communities apart. that's a wrap for us on this thursday. "morning joe," you know it, starts right now. i wrote the art of the deal. i say not in a brag adocious. >> i've been doing lots of wonderful deals and that's what i do. you're supposed to sit down with the democrats and republicans and the liberals and the conservatives and everybody else and you're supposed to hammer out deals. >> i think he feels very good about the product that we have put out. we are in sell mode and want to get this done but the president has an open mind. >> finding a deal on health care reform. is donald trump's first real test. facing uphill battle to bring
many moderate and conservative republicans on board. can he turn his art of the deal into actual legislation? meanwhile, top senators are demanding answers as to why president trump would claim that president obama tapped his phones. they want evidence from the fbi and the justice department. good morning. welcome, everyone, to "morning joe." it's thursday, march 9th. with us along with joe and me, mark barnicle and mark halpern. pril writ political writer for "the new york times" nick confessore and also sam stein. the white house challenged congress to contest the claim that president obama tapped donald trump's phones. lindy graham and sheldon asked
top law enforcement officials for evidence writing to the deputy attorney general and the director of the fbi, requesting the department of justice provide copies of any warrant applications and court orders related to wiretaps of president trump, his campaign, or headquarters. joe, they add that it takes spying for political purposes seriously and would be equally alarmed to learn a court found enough evidence of criminal activity or with a foreign power. so here is senator lindsey graham speaking yesterday to nbc news be. >> president trump claims that president obama administration targeted his campaign, trump tower. i have no knowledge of that. but he has challenged the congress to help him, so let's help. if they don't give it to us, yeah, subpoena. i'm not trying to compromise classified information. i'm not trying to compromise the
investigation. the question has there ever been a warrant issued? this is a major deal for the country and i want to get to the bottom of it. >> joe, some senators, as you can see, are in the letting this go. i've heard from others who are close to the president to say, comm c'mon, don't take his tweets seriously. should we just move on? is this a question that doesn't really demand an answer or is lindsey graham right? >> i feel like you're asking me a rhetorical question. of course, we need an answer to this. >> i had trouble leading with this this morning. i'm just making sure. >> james comey had his reputation soil. every professional in the fbi had their reputations attacked by the president of the united states. of course, barack obama and everybody that worked in that administration had their reputations attacked. people have given their entire lives to public service in america had their reputation soiled by one early morning
tweet which, from what i'm hearing, donald trump, himself, understood later on in the afternoon he had gone too far. well, if he had gone too far, he can either apologize an sd say had bad information and he deeply regrets or which we know he won't do, or the investigation must go forward. the white house luncheon may not have been that impressive for lindsey because he is came out on and immediately pressing in this direction. here is the maddening thing for all of us. the justice department has this information. there does not need to be a congressional investigation. nobody has to waste thousands and thousands of dollars. this can get taken care of right away. >> well, maybe that one discrete piece. a good sign for the country they want to do it in a bipartisan
way. the question of the role of russian in the election must be cleared and make sure it doesn't happen again. >> we are talking about one specific thing that donald trump says barack obama attacked tr p towers. >> my hope of getting to the bottom of it in a party way what happened throughout the election season into this year and the president's recent claims, my hope it all gets fast tracked and done in a way that both parties are actually trying to get to the bottom of it as opposed covering it up or protecting it. and let the facts come out and let both president obama and president trump deal with the implications, not just again of this one thing, which is, obviously, urge but the whole story how it was haneleded. it's clear from the way the intelligence community has been acting and what they brought forward and what they didn't, that there is more to this story. there is more to the choices that were made for james comey they talk about hillary clinton's server. for the other stuff about what
russia did to not come out there is more to the story. >> yeah. but, mika, i think the bottom line is on this one part that we are examining right now, somebody in the justice department can pick up the phone, no, we never did or, yes, we actually did and that is when the investigation explode. the fact that everybody in washington, d.c. knows this did not happen. donald trump was not tapped. his phones in his offices in trump tower were not tapped and everybody knows that. was he pick up of another wiretap of another associate under investigation but guess what. we all are. that is a strong stretch from barack obama wiretapped my offices. sad felony, nixonian. >> i think it's just an extremely serious time in this presidency. it's time for this to stop if this was a little twitter game or a mental explosion on his part or some problem that he has
with his fingers, but i think that it's our responsibility not to let it go because it is such a serious allegation, so we will keep asking. >> let's move on to health care. >> there is a big battle over health care. the white house continues its term offensive as pressure mounts from the right and the left. top advocates groups like the aarp and american hospital association now oppose the gop's health care plan citing its impact on vulnerable americans. early this morning, the bill cleared the ways and means committee. but some house and senate republicans are making sure leadership understands that right now, they don't have the votes to pass the bill. earlier in the day, leaders from top conservative groups like heritage, club for growth, americans for prosperity, freedom works, and tea party patriots expressed their deep frustration with the president. last night the president hofste
ted cruz and his family for dinner. hours about br that meeting the senator from texas said this about the bill. >> the bill is currently drafted, would not pass the united states senate. >> speaker ryan, yesterday, said that when the president and the vice president are open to negotiations, what they mean is that, you know, that be here anything you guys want to add in, phase two or three, this is just phase one. what do you make of those? >> i think the president was very clear when he said this bill is open for negotiation. that is exactly right. and the bill, as written, is not going to pass the senate. >> next week, members of the house freedom caucus are invited to the white house for pizza and bowling. but there is a difference -- >> that will do it. >> at least he is doing this. no, no, no. i support it. >> no, this is good. >> yes. >> this is good. why don't we say what you're not going to say. >> what do you mean? >> that barack obama should have done this from the very beginning. >> he's not in the white house. why would he talk about him?
during the president of the united states tell us he was a felon? >> yes, we must not mock donald trump for what barack obama should have done. >> that was a good move to have people over. he need to put the lie behind him. a difference of opinion, back to health care, over there is room to haggle. >> how different do you think the bill is going to be after the markup? >> none. >> do you think a lot of changes? >> no. >> reporter: no changes? >> absolutely not. >> reporter: still not going to support it? >> on not there. need major twists. they say we are negotiating and trump is a negotiator. here is smog paper now let's make it better. >> what do you think, joe? >> i think, sam stein, when you have the aarp against the bill and the american medical association against a bill, and freedom works against the bill, and heritage against the bill, and club for growth against the bill, that bill is not going to
pass the house of representatives. and, more importantly, i think donald trump may believe that, because he won the election, all of these people are going to cave. i just know in my case, every time i voted against a bill, even my own party's bill and i went back to my district and said it wasn't conservative enough, my numbers went way up, not way down. and, i mean, di that in the middle of a republican tidal wave. all of these guys that the white house thinks they can run over are guys that get elected in 2010 and have had their entire political lives framed by health care like my entire political life was framed by balance budgets and lower deficits. >> sure. i'm curious. i want to get your take on this too, because i do -- knowing all of those groups are against it, patient groups also and
hospitals and senior advocacy groups. >> they are in the tank for everyone except for republican voters, right? he is going 88, 90% favorable rating among republican voters. my curiosity whether i'm a lawmaker on the fence because of this bill, if trump really puts his shoulder into this, if he really starts owning this advocating for it saying it's critical for his entire agenda, you can make the case that it is, everything is predicated on him getting something passed here, are you a republican lawmaker going back tour district and say i'm not there on this bill that our the leader of our party, the one who your like, supports? that is where the tension is for me. i think a lot in this bill you can say if you're a republican, no, i can't do this and it hits elderly people and the poor and premiums could skyrocket. but in the end if donald trump wants it, what kind of pressure
does that put on you, joe? >> again, it depends on what type of member you have. if you have somebody that donald trump helped elect, obviously, they have to follow donald trump. for members elected in 2010 and 2012 and 2014, it's very simple. i would say if i were them, i support donald trump, but i support you more and if i'm going from their viewpoint, the freedom works viewpoint, i'd say, socialism light is not that better than socialism. >> apparently, at this tea party meeting, he basically, was acknowledging their concerns but the way he is doing it makes this bill a lot harder to pass in senate. the medicaid drawdown in 2020 maybe move it up to 2018. if you're from a republican u.s. senator do you want to have that expansion downgraded of medicaid
in 2018 during an election year? you're talking about people getting thrown off insurance. that is a tough pill to swallow. >> everybody has always said, i'm sure you've heard it working around the hill. democrats and republicans always joked that the house of representatives is not a democratic institution. it's a totalian dictatorship. they may be able to pass this by one vote but i don't know in the house. real problem in the senate. if donald trump thinks he is rob peter to pay paul and i'll take care of house now, the senators would call them the house of lords for a reason because every single one of them was their own sort of lordship. they really don't care what donald trump thinks. by the way, their districts aren't gerrymandered. they live in big states and they
the ones hammered from aarp and the american medical association. they will feel the most pressure if you're in pennsylvania, wisconsin, ohio, some of the other blue states that republicans are holding, they are going to hear from people that want medicaid expansion, that don't want this contraction. so, yeah, the house, right now, the house is sort of preseason for what is going to shape up to be a really ugly fight in the united states senate. >> sam mentioned the upcoming cbo score, the congressional budget office, is days away from releasing its analysis of the republican bill. yesterday, the trump administration appeared to both welcome and distance themselves from the widely anticipated independent analysis. >> i hear all of the talk about the cbo score. the question only about the cbo is it going to be really good or great when the number finally comes out? >> the cbo score is supposed to come out next week and he called into question their credible?
>> so we are clear, their record is what i'm calling into question. when you look at the number of people and the cost on what they scored, the last obamacare bill on, it's way off. that a fact. that is not anything more than that. all i'm saying is looking at what. cbo record is on obamacare. vastly off. i think they projected 20 million people to be on obamacare, i believe the number is 12. they are way off in terms of the millions. so it's not a question of whether i'm questioning anything. anyone that can actually do basic math can understand that their projects for obamacare, the last time, were way, way off the mark. so my only point is that i think when they come out with this score, we need to understand the track record when it comes to health care. >> what do you think? sean spicer is still waiting for "saturday night live" but take it away, joe. >> nick confessore, i don't know if you're a "simpsons" fan.
>> we are on the same wave. >> bart got an f and he was studying for his exam and he prayed to god for a snow day. you see him on his knees praying for a snow day. the prayer, the last refuge of the truly desperate. whenever i see people trashing the cbos numbers i think of that scene, trashing the cbo, the last refuge of the truly desperate. you can always tell when a bill is in trouble when people start doing what republicans were doing yesterday and trashing the cbo, which when bill clinton was president and obama was president, that is all we ever did was cite the cbo. >> look. sean is not correct on that. the cbo scores actually were pretty close in a lot of pieces of obamacare, including the premium rates. but look. . all you have to know about this debate is a story i saw in
politico a few days ago and about the debate to call it trump care or ryan care, right? it's a hot potato! you can already tell they are fighting over whether the shorthand is trump care or ryan care. it's already a problem child in congress. already. >> no one wants to own it, mike barnicle? >> you know, if i were a member of congress, i would be furious at the republican leadership. if i were a republican member of congress, i would be furious at my leadership. they have handed them a bill with no cost to it. some of them are going home this weekend, how much is this going to cost? they have no answer. if they oppose the leadership, if they oppose the bill, there is a high chance that a lot of them will get primaried which is their worst fear. and this is the position they have been put in on this bill. >> who designs a bill that hammers the republican base in a midterm which is older people? >> what is the point? >> who votes more? >> and give tax cuts to rich people. >> every major piece of people
get ton of coverage. the people are saying as you suggested has not been good. primary i don't think they have been able to sell the plan as better than the status quo. >> they have everybody, including the little sisters and the poor against this bill. everybody has come out against this bill. >> joe? >> you know, mark halpern, we were talking about this. we were talking about this before, mark, a couple of days ago. you had said to me donald trump he has all of these self-inflicted wounds and he keeps making all of these mistakes and picking fights with the intel communities and they are killing him and he is picking fights with the press and they are killing him every day. he doesn't know what is coming once he puts a bill on on the floor. you started talking about what is the interest groups and the lobbyists started picking apart his coalitions. well, here we are. aarp, let's just start with
aarp. here they are and, again, as somebody said, we are going to midterm election. the voters are older and they are wider and they are more dependent on health care than just about any other voters group. if you wanted to create a perfect way to gut a republican advantage for the 2018 midterms, it would be this bill, which, again, is why it's so astounding to me that presidential leadership didn't get in the waive this and say, guys, i know you want to do obamacare. okay? we will start that bill but we have to pass tax reforms first and then we have to do reg reforms and we will get some momentum and then we will pass it. they are starting with something that is going to keep them tied up fighting and have aarp running commercials against all of them over the next two years. >> in an odd track, joe, i mean,
they are doing, they are following a similar course early in the administration as the obama administration followed early in his administration. went right to health care. didn't drop it soon enough and continued on a path that harmed his first term. >> they have to do it this way because of the reconciliation rules. groups like aarp are opposed today but not saying stop, kill this. they just want changes. the white house and paul ryan and mitch mcconnell have a second chance now to build a coalition back but the trick is what you suggested before which is how do you appease the house which wants as members want to be more conservative? and still produce a bill that can get through the senate. that is the puzzle they haven't solved yet but i have seen this movie before. all of the coverage is how it can't pass but they have a lot of votes in hand and don't need that many more to get it through. >> opportunity for democrats. yes, joe? >> mika, i've seen this movie before twice. the first time it showed was in 1993 when bill and hillary
clinton tried to do this. they ended up in 1994 electing about 75 people like me. the house hasn't been the same since. it's been more conservative since because their decision in 1992 to start with hillary care. i saw the movie again in 2009 when obama started with obamacare and in 2010, tea partiers came in and the look of congress has been closer to ted cruz than paul ryan since 2010. yes, i've seen this movie before and it always ends the same way. >> well, still ahead on "morning joe," congressman elijah cummings joins us on the heels of his meeting with president trump. also with us this morning democratic senator chris van hollen and charlie dent. on tomorrow's show we will speak with a man at the center of this political storm, secretary of
health and human services, tom price. this hour, hawaii is the first state to true over the trump's administration revised travel ban and, as predicted, steven miller plays a key role in the lawsuit. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. we've done well in life, with help from our advisor, we made it through many market swings. sure we could travel, take it easy... but we've never been the type to just sit back... not when we've got so much more to give when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise
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hawaii has become the first state to sue over the trump administration's revised travel ban. state attorneys claimed in a 40-page filing yesterday that, quote, the secretary executive order is infected with the same legal problems as the first order. undermining bedrock and constitutional and statutory guarantees. hawaii attorney general doug chin said, quote, this new executive order is nothing more than muslim ban 2.0. the lawsuit also sats that the new travel ban will harm
hawaii's muslim population along with the state's private businesses, including its lucrative tourism industry. the complaint also cites comments last month by trump senior aide steven miller who described any changes to the initial travel ban as attack adjustments, intended to preserve the same basic policy outcome. >> one of the big differences that you're going to see in the executive order is that it's going to be responsive to the judicial ruling which didn't exist previously. and so those are mostly minor technical differences. fundamentally, you're still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country but you're going to be responsible to a lot of very technical issues that were brought up by the court and those will be addressed but in terms of protecting the country, those basically policies are still going to be in effect. >> joe, is hawaii just the beginning? >> i don't know if it's just the beginning. but the case is so much weaker this time. first of all, the attorney general should be ajamed of
himself for calling this muslim ban 2.0. it is not a muslim ban. anybody who is seriously would not suggest it's a muslim ban. were there seven countries that were selected by barack obama in a bipartisan team in congress. actually by all of congress that posed the greatest threat when it came to giving visas under a certain program. every court that is reasonable and rational and fair would look at that and see that as actually something that depends on actual data. they actually took iraq out of it so it's more tightly tailored. you also had the minority language taken out of it so that is more tightly tailored. as for all of these judges and these legal experts saying we need to go back to see what donald trump said in december of 2015 and jump up and down, they are going, he called it a ban. yes, he called it a ban at the beginning of a campaign. he changed positions about 12
times. and by the end, he was talking about extreme vetting. no serious judge would say, well, you know what? i'm going to take the first thing ed in a heated campaign instead of what he said at the end. and that is going to mean more than what is actually in here. the same thing with steven miller. steven miller was on fox news trying to convince supporters of a political argument. and courts, at least the serious judges i've known my entire life, are actually going to look what is on the paper, mark halpern, instead of listening to what somebody said at a fox news town hall meeting where he did, oh, my god, this is shocking, what every white house person has done for 240 years, played to the audience. that is not at the end of the day relevant, especially if you have the department of homeland security and all of these these
other agencies who have been changeding and updating and upgrading this policy in the months since he said that on fox news. >> i agree with the merits you said and including the one point they should look at the order and not at what people have said on cable tv, as much as i love cable tv. we both know that one federal judge can do what he or she wants. i've not studied who the judges are in the district that covers hawaii but i bet you some of them are pretty liberal and maybe results oriented enough they could say i'm going to count what steven miller said on cable or what rudy giuliani said and if they can do, they can do a natural restraining order that would put them back where they are. i agree with you on the merits. this is a much different order and taken literally it's not a muslim ban and it's not something that is consistent with what the president said he would do as a candidate. >> mika, let me say when i knew the ninth circuit is getting it. their conclusion is likely going
to be very liberal. i don't know if they are going to embarrass themselves this time. last time they were correct to at least slow it down. i don't know if they are going to embarrass themselves constitutionally and try to step in the place of the president of the united states and the administration on issues where the president is to be deferred to in great measure. and he can be now because this went through the interagency process. they fthey do that they will be reversed at the supreme court. hopefully, donald trump can have the discipline to let the court system play out the way the court system is supposed to play out. instead of being an idiot and questioning the legitimacy of judges. let it play out. he has the authority. if the ninth circuit embarrasses themselves or if a single judge embarrasses himself or herself, let the process play out. the supreme court will be with you in the end.
>> i don't know if he can do that. does anybody here think he can have that -- >> he can show restrain. i'm sure it's within him. >> also a line from "hamilton." tough less, smile more. tweet less, smile more. >> tweet less, smile more. >> it's so easy. >> "hamilton." >> from aaron burr to donald trump, tweet less, smile more. coming up the conservative club for growth doesn't just oppose the current house plan to replace obamacare, it's actually pressuring republicans to vote against it. ahead, we will speak with the head of that group former congressman david mcintosh who yesterday, met with the president. in 2012, donald trump tweeted jon huntsman called to see me. i said no. he gave away our country to china! now president trump has tapped jon huntsman to give our country away to russia! we will explain that ahead on "morning joe." here's to the wildcats 'til we die...
ambassadorship. he represented the united states in singapore under president george h.w. bush and more recently served as president obama's ambassador to china. president trump tweeted about huntsman tenure in beijing and posting in 2012, quote, jon huntsman called to see me. i said no. he gave away our country to china. >> what part did he give away to china? i missed that. >> just a tweet. don't mind it. it doesn't mean anything. >> what did we give to china? >> a small block in queens close to his childhood home. >> huntsman is a great call. >> they deserve being given away. >> it's good to see him breaking ground with his former adversaries, right? he has ted cruz in. now it's jon huntsman. >> and orrin hatch. >> yes, orrin hatch is extremely great. >> i'm not ready to laugh yet.
i don't know. joining us is the "weekly standard" bill kristol. will he apologize to him for calling him a fleelon. >> i doubt it. >> then i can't laugh. your take on huntsman? >> he is an experienced diplomat. i don't know if it changes. what is his russia policy and what will the truth be about contacts between russia and his campaign? the world is a very dangerous place. kind after big story is underreported in syria and north korea is moving ahead with its nuclear program and evidence of their proceliferation program. there is no deputy secretary of state or defense because the trump white house won't proappr the picks.
i'm a critic of the state department. >> there is something to criticize, there is nobody there. it's cricket. >> it's useful top diplomats and people running the defense department. >> mark halpern, how is the state department hiring process going? >> these aren't, again, normal fights you have but somewhat supercharged a lot of people in the white house haven't seen this movie before. takes a long time to pick people and get them through the background check process and their papers up to the hill. every president i've covered has failed to do hands-on, you know, spending time saying what is the log jam? how do we get people through? cabinet secretaries want to pick their own people and white house want to veto people. it's a really slow process. >> is this like the past? it's usually very empty at this point? >> they are a little bit behind schedule but president obama and president clinton and president bush had the same issue. you wake up in september and still waiting to get people confirmed. this case they have a lot of
holdovers that aren't part of their agenda. >> it's an inexperienced white house and never been in government before and which is fine fresh blood but they don't know how the system works and cabinet secretaries who want to bring in their own people. >> i think andrea mitchell was at a press briefing yesterday and that is coming up. she was called unruly, joe. andrea, the elegant andrea mitchell was shoved away and called unruly. >> unbelievable. the thing, making things more difficult for this administration is they are trying to fill these posts and donald trump is pushing back on some of the posts. you, though, have leaders of the senate, leads in the democratic senate also pushing back. and this is, again, a good example of how donald trump could have come in. he could have stopped from calling the minority leader a clown. he could have stopped by
insulting everybody all around him. and, again, this is the cost of it. the cost of it is everything is going slowly. you can't insult everybody and then be shocked that the works are all gummed up. and they are. because, again, he has been insulting everybody from the day he got into office. she has shown no graciousness and sometimes you show graciousness in washington, d.c. not to be gracious but you show graciousness because you hope it is shown back to you and that you're able to get some of the things you want as well. there is horse trading in washington. the sooner donald trump realizes he can't steam roll over everybody, the sooner he will start to understand he can actually get things done there. >> can i loop that back into the health care discussion? i was in the white house and we had plenty of failures. if you're unveiling a health care bill monday night? what do you do the week before you brief them about it and call
in the groups on your own side and try to get them on board and you call in the american hospital association, the american medical association and the relevant groups and maybe they have an open mind. this is just politics 101. this is not super complicated. every white house does this. they are so intoxicated with the notion that trump is going to bless it. paul ryan has worked it out in a conference and he's a smart guy. trump has this magic position he slaps on something and it goes sailing through and everyone rolls over for these. the congressmen go home in a week or two and with the hospital administrator in their district and 20 doctors come see them when they are home and they are going to discover, gee, this thing, who is in favor of this exactly? >> a second and a third layer. >> i think the failure to really plan this is really astonishing. honestly, think of the obamacare white house. liberals hated this but rahm emanuel spent hours and days and
weeks with the hospital association and what do you need to support this? then the liberals didn't like it and went to a public option and had to work on stuff to get this on board. why are they unleashing this at the beginning of march? >> he misses obama. >> they got it through and it took a huge amount of work and obama spent six months around the country campaigning for it. they think they can slap this down with not that huge of a margin in the house and a small margin in the senate and say, paul ryan and donald trump agree on this. it's ridiculous! >> but bill is absolutely right. for seven years, you know, the republican mantra obamacare was done in the middle of the night and back room deals and rushed, not vetted properly. we had to see what was -- see what was in the bill. every one of those rah torial device you can apply ten-fold what the process is right now. it's astonishing. hypocrisy goes hand in hand but this is a level of hypocrisy i
feel is astonishing opinion obamacare was not done when obama was elected. i think people need to realize this. obamacare was the product of years and years of debate within the liberal and progressive democratic community about what health care should be like in an age you probably weren't able to do anything close to single payor. they ended up pretty close to what mitt romney did in massachusetts just to apply nationally. the debate within the republican circles hasn't been as rigorous about what the replacement for obamacare should be and you're seeing the product of it now where you have this thing slapped together. >> yeah. they don't even know. mika, they don't even know. we were talking to jim jordan, one of the most influential conservatives on the hill who said i haven't even seen the bill. rand paul tried to get in to see the bill last week. they locked him out. this is insanity when you think, again, you think you're going to shove this down the throats of men and women that got elected to congress in 2010 and 2012 and
2014, specifically running against obamacare. they are not going to bend and break like that. trump may think he can intimidate people on a debate stage. these guys have their own careers. and bill kristol is right. they are going to go home and the main hospital administrator is going to pound them. the 20 doctors that held fund-raisers for them over the past for two years are going to hammer them. people in church will hammer them and they will get hammered by the local newspaper editorial boards and get if tfrom all sides. if anybody has the courage to have a town hall meeting they will get hammered. conservatives are going to be hammer them. the ama and aarp will hammer them. they are getting it from all side and they are going home not knowing what they are talking about because this was done in the middle of the night. they passed this at 2:00 a.m.
and nobody, after we all have made fun of nancy pelosi for years for saying we have to pass the bill to know what is in it. guess what they are going to do? they are going to make republicans vote for this bill without having a clue what is in it. >> it's hard. >> it's going to fall apart. there will not be a vote. >> nick, you're on standby and we have david mcintosh up after the break. >> can you respond? >> thank you. thank you. >> can you respond to our question? >> thank you, guys. let's go. >> thank you. thank you. >> can you insure us that russia will not be able to move further in ukraine? >> thank you. let's go.
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republican senator tom cotton of arkansas tweeted early this morning, number one, house health care bill can't pass senate without major changes. to my friends in the house, pause. start over. get it right. don't get it fast. two, a gop shouldn't act like dems did in bmg. no excuse to release bill monday
night. start voting monday night with no budget estimate. three, what matters in long run is better, more affordable health care for americans. not house leaders arbitrary legislative calendar. >> that sounds sensible! >> joining us on capitol hill, former republican congressman david mcintosh. great to have you on the show morning. >> thank you, mika. great to be with you easement joe? >> hey, david. we have been through this drill a thousand times where house leadership, when we were there, we tried to pass a bad bill. newt would try to shovel a lot of pork in in deals he did with the democrats. they would give it to us at 3:00 morning and said we had to vote on it a the noon the next day and sometimes they wouldn't even mark it up. this is actually is exactly what is going on in a house run by a
guy you and i both respect very much, paul ryan. but nobody knows what is in this bill. the cbo is not going to have a chance to score this bill. actually, by obamacare standa s standards, this process looks even more close. do you agree with me that tom cotton, the house needs to slow down and be transparent and start over? >> absolutely, joe. what i would think they can do is now open up this process and at that time ryan care version and move back to a full repeal of obamacare, and put in about five or six changes that are republican core principles. cut all of the taxes immediately, block grant medicaid, force the insurance industry to compete across state lines, get rid of the regulations, get rid of the new kind of welfare program and the tax credit.
then they can have a bill that could score well and would be solidly supported by the conservative republican base. that's their chance to get it through and, frankly, their best chance to get it through the senate as well. unfortunately, you're right. our friend paul ryan did it like a think tank where they cooked it with nobody looking and full board sprung on a bill that nobody knew anything about. and sadly, it was not a full repeal of obamacare that republicans had promised over and over again for four different elections they would do. >> nick? >> david, so if you got your wish list on this bill, the club for growth wish list, how do you pass it in the senate if you get rid of the medicaid spanexpansi the governors want, how do you pass that in this senate? >> one of the things that that i think will happen. i think at some point, president trump is going to come in and cut the negotiations and take it away from ryan because he is not
going to be able to get the votes. the way you do that is, say, on medicaid expansion, we want it to be rolled back to before obamacare. the governors that took it want the full amount of money. you can split the baby and say we are going to stop the enrollment today and, better, governor, for you, we will block grant it, so you can take that money and instead of all the strings and restrictions from washington you decide who gets how much and the state can pay the additional amount and we will let you run the program. that is a very good deal for the governors because when they get that flexibility, they can use it much more effectively than obamacare limited them to and forced them into this one size fit all program. >> sam stein? >> some governors might quibble with that being a good deal. my question for you is what is your message to that poor person who did get coverage through the
medicaid expansion who isn't wealthy enough to get the tax credit as you envision it? who under a plan crafted by the club for growth would see their ability to get care slashed? because they don't have enough money and can't get covered by the medicaid expansion? >> sam, that is a great question. frankly, we have the best answer. when you start competing over state lines and taking off the regulations in obamacare, they will have affordable health insurance. the rates will go down. under the ryan care bill, none of the rates will go down and you're right. at that point, they are stuck with these two expensive health options. under our plan with full competition, they will have an affordable health care policy available to them as an individual or as part of a small group or as part of their employees and they will be protected and have a lot better options than they do under either obamacare or this new ryan care version. >> david mcintosh, thank you very much. bill kristol, thank you as well.
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customer service!d. ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i'm kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. is it by any other name trump care? >> it's the american health care care act. i'll call it the trump care if you want to, but i didn't hear president trump say to any of us, hey, i want my name on that. this is serious stuff. this isn't about branding according to someone's name. >> the fact of the matter is trump care is a mess. >> how does the white house and
you feel about the label trump care? >> i'll let others provide a description for it. i prefer to call it patient care. >> donald trump has talked about helping working america. the plan he has embraced, trumpcare, helps the rich, hurts the average american. >> the branding battle is under way and jeremy peters of "the new york times" reports this morning, the criticism from the right has grown so harsh that president trump asked leaders of several conservative groups in an oval office meeting on wednesday to tone it down. he was especially troubled one participant said by the comparisons of the plan to obamacare lite which he said was inaccurate and harmful to their shared cause of gutting the current law. i don't hear them talking like that. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, march 9th. with us veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc, mark halpern. senior political editor and
white house correspondent for "the huffington post," sam stein. joining the conversation former white house press secretary for president george w. bush, ari fleischer. and msnbc political analyst, steve schmidt. good to have you all on board. joe, a good gripe this hour and a lot to talk about. >> what a group. ari, i think what we need to do is i need to get alex corson to get a clip of george w. bush in the second -- in the first debate in 2004 asking for extra time and just stopping and going, it's hard. it's hard. >> that's what i was quoting before! >> because donald trump thought this was going to be so easy. there he is seeing chuck schumer calling it trumpcare. there he is seeing republicans from the right calling it obamacare lite. you wade into health care, you are wading into a legislative the likes of which donald trump
will never see again. they are starting with the hardest possible thing and he's learning pretty quickly in the words of george w. bush, it's hard. it's hard. >> joe, i don't disagree with a single word you said but let me point out another side of this issue is the house of representatives and the senate have already passed what they call a budget resolution which is a vital first step and ways and means last night passed the trump health plan. so you already actually have the building blocks moving forward. the trains are moving. now it may not get to the final destination and i'm sure it will get changed before it does, but hillary care, if you remember in 1993 couldn't get a vote in the ways and means committee. you have to give them credit for too. will it change? are they under pressure? do conservatives not like it, yeah, there are problems but give them credit. things are getting done too. >> so steve schmidt, is that your take as well? give them credit, things are moving forward? even though they are doing
really, i was going to say what the democrats did with obamacare but it's actually even worse, less transparent, more shoved through the process and voting in the milled of the night. their own members don't know what is inside the bill. rand paul is locked out of the room to see what is inside the bill last week. the cbo hasn't even scored it and they are talking about having them vote on this blind without anybody even seeing it? what conservative would ever vote for that bill? >> not a smart one. look. at the end of the day, the -- what we are seeing is the reality in washington is that we functionally have three political parties. they have a trump party, we have a republican party, we have a democratic party. it's remarkable in the president's address to congress to see republicans standing and clapping for the notion of border tariffs. so when we look at this, we are seeing now, as we get to the first policy fights of the trump administration, this shouldn't be hard to swallow for conservatives, and as we look
ahead to the midterm elections on any one of a number of issues, tax reform, infrastructure spending, you're going to start to see the strains in this coalition and you'll see it play out in health care. and i think it could well be a mistake. pi you can make an argument that the obama administration made a profound mistake by leading with health care. it unsettled the rest of their domestic agenda. we may look back and think it's entirely possible at the beginning of 2018 and say this republican congress and this president have got nothing done. >> right. >> no health care. there is no tax reform, no infrastructure. >> so since we have the two of you here, i definitely want to get both of your take. top strategist and someone who has run a white house before on the president's problematic tweets. let's stay on this and health care. top advocacy groups are now opposing the gop's health care plan citing its impact on
vulnerable americans. early this morning the bill cleared the ways and means committee, but some house and senate republicans are making sure leadership understands right now they don't have the votes on to pass the bill. earlier in the day heritage and club for growth and americans for prosperity and freedom works and tea party patriots expressed deep reservations with the president. last night, the president hosted his bitter primary rival ted cruz and his wife hide onny and their two children for dinner. hours about that meeting the senator from texas said this about the bill. >> the bill is currently drafted, would not pass the united states senate. >> speaker ryan, yesterday, said that when the president and the vice president are open to negotiations, what they mean is that, you know, that here anything you guys want to add in, phase two or three, this is just phase one. what do you make of those? >> i think the president was very clear when he said this bill is open for negotiation. that is exactly right. and the bill, as written, is not going to pass the senate. >> next week, members of the
house freedom caucus are invited to the white house for pizza and bowling. joe? >> well, yeah. you know, of course we were critical of barack obama. >> for not doing pizza and bowling. >> for not doing pizza and bowling but a reason. we know if you watch "morning joe" regularly, you know this is why. >> he's very good at bowling. you stop now. >> wee! >> stop. put that away! >> wee! i think he got a 48. hold on. maybe it's better. >> that's how they bowl at harvard law school, joe. stop making fun of him. >> i'm not making fun of him. no, i'm not. so any way. steve schmidt, donald trump -- >> you kind of miss him, don't you? >> steve schmidt, i don't miss anybody right now. steve schmidt. there is this belief that you can bring people over and persuade them in the white house and get them to do what you want
them to do. but i can use my own experience. i got elected in 1994 about balance budgets and bringing down the deficit and bringing down the national debt, reforming entitlement spending, and doing all of these things that took money, power, and authority out of washington, d.c. i just could not negotiate on that and it took tom delay and the whip operation. you know? if it increased the deficit i wasn't going to vote for it. there was nothing they could say or do because my whole career rested on that. these people that have been elected since 2010 got elected running against obamacare. the last thing they can do, if you're jim jordan, or any of these tea party guys, is go over to the white house and have a slice of pizza and bowl three times and then tell the president, oh, yeah, i'm going to abandon everything i campaigned for over the past six years.
and, yes, i'll vote for obamacare lite. >> a word for people like you that you just described called conservative and there is a bill open question in washington, d.c. in the trump era. what does conservativism mean? you look at the speech laid out before in congress we are going to have 500 billion dollars of military spending the next ten years and a trillion dollar of infrastructure spending. we are going to have corporate tax cuts and personal rate tax cuts. we are going to spend 50 billion on the wall. we are going to pass an obamacare repeal without it being scored by the congressional budget office. that is not very conservative. >> steve, steve, we did this before. we did this when george w. bush was president of the united states and justified it. you were worried about it. i wrote books and columns about it and i had segments on scarborough country about it.
warned republicans. they didn't want to hear. the second bush got out of office and they were on out of power, we screwed up, joe, but if we get in power again we will never make the same mistakes again. they are making the same mistakes again but they are worse. it's not about me. you can lift what i wrote in my 2004 book and you can lift the editorials that were written by "the wall street journal" that same time, lift them straight off the pages in 2004, slap them down today, and it's the same exact thing. no choices are being made. they are going to take a $20 trillion debt and turn it into a $40 trillion debt. >> on i could not disagree more what steve said about the substance of this legislation. you'll notice two of the biggest
things republicans want to do out of taking power out of washington or in this legislation, one, it block grants medicaid from a federal program into a state program and was vetoed twice. this overrides bill clinton's veto. this overturns the supreme court decision about government mandates and gets rid of the obamacare mandate which became the core of this case going to supreme court. you talk about reducing the power of the federal government, a conservative approach, taking power out of washington and giving it to the states. two major issues. no more mandate and block granting medicaid. conservative dreams come true. >> if that is the case, why is heritage and club for growth against it and why are conservatives like jim jordan against it? >> because i think they want to improve which is part of the legislative process. i've never seen somebody give up all of their leverage on day one and the way it's always been in washington.
let them make a case for what they want and let it go to the membership. >> what is that, joe? i couldn't hear what you said. >> because you wouldn't -- >> because i answered your question! >> no. you didn't answer my question. >> i couldn't hear it. >> you talked about day one. ari, you want me to ask the question or do you want to keep talking? >> i couldn't hear it. >> that's why you keep talking. >> it's your show. >> i won't ask you the question. mike barnicle, let me ask you the question i was going to ask ari. no, barnicle, let me ask you the question. why do republicans have to do everything on day one? he talked about opposing it on day one. they are trying to do everything on day one. that is not how congress works and not how washington works. >> i'm going to pass that question to ari and he is going to give you an answer after i provide you with an observation. having sat here now for an hour, going on ten minutes, and for many days talking about listening to about the health care, listening to david
mcintosh and listening to all of the opponents of many particuthr bill introduced overnight in the house of representatives and listening ad nauseam what is going on in washington and both committees, there is one element that very few people have spoken about. obamacare is imploding. we have been told that over and over again. there are 20 million plus people with health insurance as a result of obamacare. what are you going to do with them? you going to tell them, sorry, you're not going to have your health care for a week, a month, six months while we figure out what the replacement is going to be? what are you going to do? >> well, i think what the obvious answer is many of those people were given access to insurance but not to health care. their deductibles and premiums under obamacare were too high. but your broader point is a very good one. whatever they do it has to recognize that people need and are counting on health care and particularly low income people
and the refundable tax credits which conservatives oppose is a helpful part of this legislation. what you're saying is right but it has to get addressed in the substance. >> did you answer joe's question? >> i don't remember what it was! >> he is still not listening. i guess that worked in the bush white house when the deficits kept going up. you just don't listen to questions you don't want to listen to. a member of the senate say they are doing what they do on lousy omni bust bills. they draft them on monday night and hide it from everybody and drop it on tuesday. you don't have time to read it. then they force you to pass it on wednesday. then they have the guts to say to you if you're a true conservative, if you really care for the cause, if you really want -- i mean, you'll hurt the president if you don't do this! you know, you fall prey to that trick the first time. but second or third time, you learn to say, you know what?
i can't help the president if he can't help himself. you've got to actually let me read the bill. here they are trying to restructure one-fifth, one-sixth of the nation's economy and passing it at 2:00 in the morning and nobody has actually read the bill. this is no way for a conservatives to behave. this is what we accuse liberals of doing when they are trying to shove big spending bills down our throats. >> and given what mike barnicle pointed out, this could be unfortunately on many levels because i think there will be ramifications for this for americans who finally have health care but it could be a huge opportunity for democrats. who are trying to regroup here. got a question for these two guys. the white house challenged congress to investigate presidents trump's claim that president obama wiretapped his phones and two members of the senate judiciary committee are demanding answers. republican senator lindy graham and democratic senator sheldon
white house asked top for evidence and writing to the deputy of the attorney general and the director of the fbi requesting the department of justice provide copies of any warrant application and court order related to wiretaps of president trump, his campaign, or headquarters. they have said they take spying for political purposes seriously and added we would be equally alarm to learn that a court found evidence or criminal activity on or contact with a foreign power to authorize a wiretap of president trump, the trump campaign or trump tower. here is senator lindsey graham speaking yesterday to nbc news. but there is a difference -- they claim he targeted tump tower but he has challenged the congress to help him. let's help. if they don't give it to us, yes, subpoena. i'm not trying to compromise classified information. i'm not trying to compromise the investigation. the question is has it ever been
a warrant issue? this is a major deal for the can you not and i want to get to the bottom of it. >> curious. let's just say the tweets were a big mistake because i hear reportedly the president knows he really messed up. when you accuse a former president of a felony, you know? i'm just wondering at some point when do you have to walk it back and actually have to -- what would the strategy be? steve schmidt and ari, what would you say to the president if this happened that way, if this was a big stupid impulsive mistake on his part and there is actually no base for it, no ground for it as everyone appears to say? >> ari? >> clearly he went too far. >> yes. that would be a light way of putting it. >> this is what i hate about politics is delegitimatizing the people you oppose. it's one on policy but another to say you're a criminal and need to get that out from everybody's rhetoric. >> what would you advise the president to do? >> president trump cannot walk it back or take the back.
the white house counsel basically snuffed it out and did the right thing. he is saying you can't talk about it and let it fade into a congressional investigation and then a resolution from congress. >> as press secretary, would you say the tweets speak for themselves? would that be a good way to handle it as press secretary? would you feel -- >> yeah, that is one of the best escape hatches that press secretaries have is you just try to keep it in an isolated block and say, i can't talk about it, it is on its own. judge it on its merits and people make their evaluation. >> steve schmidt? >> i think someone has to go in there and say, mr. president, one, this makes you look unhinged. two, it's not true. and now you're at the hour if you don't stop this, it will destroy your presidency. >> thank you. >> you have no path to be successful, no passing of a domestic agenda. you will precipitate an international crisis. you are devaluing the words of the president of the united states at every hour. at some point, in the next four years, the president of the
united states will appear before the cameras on a day of national tragedy and have to talk to the american people and he needs credibility to do that. and across the depth and breadth of this administration, as we move in from month two to month three, the shattering of credibility is a fundamental issue with the nonstop lying by the president, by senior white house spokes people, across the board. and it is terrible for the american people and the people implicit and his enablers in the white house, it's very, very bad. bad. >> thank you. all right. the state department -- say no more, right, halpern? that kind of sums it up. the nonstop lying is shattering the credibility of thissy. >> and they need credibility. >> the state department has held only one press briefing since
rex tillerson took office. on tuesday, andrea mitchell tried to ask questions about china, russia, and vladimir putin. here is some of that exchange. >> mr. secretary, china has said there will be consequences for the deployment of anti-missile defenses in south korea. >> thank you! >> can you respond? >> krthank you. we are leaving! >> mr. minister, are you sure -- >> aerned -- >> that the administration will be strong against vladimir putin? >> thank you, guys. we are leaving the room. >> we haven't been in yet. >> thank you. >> thank you, andrea. >> andrea, press conference is over. i'm sorry. >> wow. they had her circled there. in response to that line of questioning, fox news host bill o'reilly tweeted yesterday unruly andrea mitchell! escorted from the press conference. so here is how andrea signed off from her show yesterday. >> and that does it for this
unruly edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember to follow us on facebook and twitter. >> you know, there is a lot of things i would call you, andrea mitchell. unruly is not just one of them. you're looking into the cia's response to what appears to be a historic leak of secret cia documents. let's move on in a very dignify way here and tell us about that. >> this is serious. thank you, mika. because the fbi now is opening a counterintelligence investigation. already has. the cia doing a damage assessment after that revelation by wikileaks that it has struck again. this time against the cia's top secret cyberprogram. >> reporter: this morning, both the fbi and cia scrambling to find out who is behind what could be the worst breach of u.s. intelligence in recent history. thousands of documents posted by wikileaks. which it says reveals the cia's secret playbook for hacking. the cia not commenting on whether the stolen documents are authentic. but one senior u.s. official
telling nbc news they do contain authentic top secret information. >> at the end of the day, what this does is reveal not just u.s. capabilities, but it gives a road map to america's enemies as to not only how to defend against these capabilities, but also how to use. >> reporter: the potential fallout, terrorists and other adversaries overseas now how they hack their smartphones and smart tvs and computer and getting into signal and what is app. still the biggest question who did it? two intelligence sources say wrush russ russia is a major focus given the hacked e-mails in the 2016 campaign. how did it happen? was the cia hacked? was it an outside contractor as wikileaks claims? or the nightmare scenario for the cia a mole within the agency? former officials saying the hunt, if an inside source saying
checking bank accounts. how badly has it compromised the cia's mission especially as w k wickleaks only released is 1% of what they have. they knew a breach late last near yu didn't know what it was. with relations already strained between the trump administration and the intelligence community at the white house more criticism. >> this is the kind of disclosure that undermines our country and security and well-being. >> reporter: today, the president will meet with his cia director mike pompeo and no doubt told how bad the initial investigation is, how bad the damage is. >> nbc news andrea mitchell, thank you for that. there is still much more ahead on "morning joe." all of a sudden, democrats are sounding a lot like republicans back when obamacare was making its way through congress. >> i would hope, mr. president, we would send this through the regular order because it
requires a thorough vetting of the facts and the american people deserve that kind of transparency and accountability. >> maryland's chris van hollen on the senate floor yesterday asking republicans to do what democrats didn't back when he was in the house. he joins us next. plus, congressman elijah cummings and peter welch on their meeting with the president. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ everyone deserves attention, whether you've saved a lot or just a little. at pnc investments, we believe you're more than just a number. so we provide personal financial advice for every retirement investor.
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as far as i know, it only kicks in on couples making over 225 million a year and a tax on wealthy investors and you're laemting eliminating it. >> yes. >> was the message of that election really we need to help investors? the dow is over 20,000. are they really the group that needs the help? >> this was a tax on capital income and bad for income growth
and a tax increase to finance obamacare. we are undoing obamacare so not keep obamacare taxes in place. it's bad tax policy because it's bad for economic growth and repealing the obamacare spending so getting rid of its taxing and spending. >> the overview here is that all of the wealth basically the last ten years has stuck to the top end and one of the reasons we have had this political turmoil as you know and a hard sale. we are going to pea real obamacare but spend money to the riches? i'm not a leftist but that is just true. >> i'm no that concerned about it because we said we will repeal the obamacare taxes and this is one of the obamacare taxes. >> that was speaker ryan last night talking about one of the sticking points on the health care bill. getting rid of a tax increase for high earners. joe, that is one issue that really has people up in arms. >> i was going to say, tucker carlson is dead on here. if you look over the past decade
the greatest economic challenge to this country right now has nothing to do with the stock market or the discouragement of investment in america. the greatest challenge is the growing income disparity. and you don't have -- like tucker said you don't have to be a liberal or a socialist so to say that. alan greenspan was saying that five, six years ago. to pass a bill take takes away health benefits from the poor and to get rid of an investment tax for people making $250,000, it seems to accelerate that process. and, again, i don't know -- i'm sure there is a better way to fight against income inequality. but tax cuts for the richest, that is not it. >> no. >> we have tried that since 1981 and the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer and not because of tax policy.
that is because of technology and globalism but it's rapidly accelerated and it elected donald trump, yet, donald trump is surrounding himself with billionaires and trying to pass legislation that makes the rich richer and makes the poor poorer. >> joining us from washington, a member of the budget committee democratic senator chris van hollen of maryland. very good to see you. are you seeing a little bit of kind of like the past is pro log again? the same thing happening all over again? what is your take? >> well, i think we now know why they kept this secret for so long and i think you've just put your finger on what americans are going to be most surprised about in this so-called obamacare replacement which are these huge tax cuts to the wealthiest americans. the joint tax committee says $600 billion of tax cuts. if you're in the one-tenth of 1%, you're going to get an average tax cut of 200,000.
they put in a provision here that provides tax cuts for the bonuses that insurance companies say to their ceos. so you add all of that it up to $600 billion, yes, the people who are being appointed to the trump cabinet will do just great. everybody else in the country takes it on chin and bad for health care in america. i got to -- this is not what donald trump talked about on the campaign trail. he talked about the issues that you and joe were just talking about, the squeeze on working americans. this makes that squeeze much tighter and provides these windfall tax breaks to the wealthy. >> mark halpern? >> senator, i know you oppose the bill in almost the entirety on its merit but what do you think of the politics of it? handicap the chance that republicans pass the bill or something like it in the house? >> i think it's beginning to
break up from all sides. the more people take a look at this, the more they are asking the questions that we are talking about this morning. in other words, these tax breaks are not what the conversation was about. and at the same time, you're seeing folks who are going to be losing their access to health care because they can't afford it. the aarp, you know, they sometimes weigh in on these issues. they very rarely come out full throttle against something. but if you're over 50 years old, you're going to be paying lot more for your health insurance and if you're somebody who has disabilities, the whole disability community is rallying against this because of the cuts to medicaid. so it's really hard to tell, you know, folks in the disability community or seniors on lower incomes who are going to see these huge increases in premiums so they are not going to be able to afford coverage any more and hard to tell them you're doing that to them while you're
providing $600 billion in tax breaks to wealthier people, including the provision on investment income and another increase that applied to very high-end individuals with respect to their medicaid tax. by the way, the medicare actuaries have told us when you give that tax break to wealthy people you take three years off the medicare trust fund because a portion of those revenues will strengthen the medicare trust fund. donald trump said he wasn't going to touch medicare but that is what he is doing. >> yeah. all right. joe? >> steve schmidt, we have been talking about 2018 only because everything that is coming out of the republican side of the ledger looksic it like it's set for a 2018 campaign. can you see how they are
misplaying this? an internal war they are trying to pass it in the dark and aarp and freedom work and club for growth working against them. you have a republican congressman yesterday coming out saying, well, the poor are so lazy, they don't really want health care. another republican congressman saying, maybe they just don't buy an iphone for a year and they can afford health care. then you have a provision that tucker carlson on fox news said last night, one of the most conservative guests said the problem over the last ten years has not been the stock market. it's the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. you talk about the 30-second ad that gives millionaires, like, you know, what is the number? >> 50,000 average tax cuts for millionaires and 200,000 average tax cut for the top one-tenth of 1%. >> and then, steve schmidt, find republicans that voted for donald trump that had their
health care taken away. and i got three of them in my own family! so don't tell me they are not there. >> first off, once you give an entitlement in the united states, it's very difficult to take it away. secondly, if we look at the electorate defined by the over/under line those who benefits from the technological revolution and those left behind it. voters in trump country. in trump country, when he gave the american carnage speech, it deeply resonated with them in all of these places. i'll show you a suicide epidemic, an obesity epidemic, opioid epidemic and heroin epidemic and these are parts of the country that need health care and health insurance. no matter what happens in the wash with all of this you will be taking health care insurance
and potentially access to health care away from these people with deadly political consequences perhaps. >> that is a republican strategist speaking, senator. it seems to me that there is an opportunity for democrats to measure in a very measured way get their point across here. >> well, it is just baffling because it is a total disconnect between what donald trump ran on. and i can tell you in the rural areas of maryland, the rural hospitals are screaming that this is going to absolutely devastate them, particularly the cuts in the long-term and medicaid. the fact that the affordable care act benefits people with opioid and substance abuse. those benefits are finally making some difference in the rural areas, as well as the usualin' and suburban areas. those are exactly the people that donald trump went to during
the campaign and nobody was listening to them. >> they let a lot go by and i'm not sure they will let this go by. senator advice krchris van holl you. let's bring in congressman larry dent. >> thanks for joining us, congressman. back in 2009, one of the mantras, many of them from republicans critical of democrats in the passage of obamacare they are doing it in the dead night and didn't know what was in the bill and didn't allow the american people to weigh in and look at it and understand its score. can you honestly say today that republicans aren't doing the exact same thing with the attempted passage of their own repeal and replace bill here? >> well, i guess history has a funny way of repeating itself. i think there has been too much of a focus here on arbitrary time lines and deadlines and base lines. this issue to me is about the
people who are going to be impacted by the decisions we make. i'll tell you my main concern with what is happening right now is that will these tax credits be sufficient for people to buy insurance, compared to what they are getting now through the subsidies? in my state, i have 700,000 people who are included in the medicaid expansion and probably about a total of 1.1 million people who now have coverage. i want to understand how these people are going to be impacted. at this point, those questions have not been answered satisfactorily for me. >> congressman, let's stick with that and your district and talk about a single mom with two kid, medicaid cuts in the offing and block grants going back to the states. what are you going to tell them when you go home in a week or ten days when she asks you what is going to happen to my health care and my children's health care? what are you going to do about it? >> that's a good question. i'm going to listen. frankly, i've been having those conversations with people in thigh district since the beginning of the year. how will any health care change
impact that? and i think one failure so far there has not been enough engagement with hospitals, providers, and patient advocates. i need to hear more from them as this impacts them. i have concerns about the medicaid expansion. i heard overnight some talk rolling back that window from 2020 to 2018. that would not be helpful, in my view. also, again, i get back to this issue of the tax credit. will there be enough money provided to help those people get -- buy insurance? they are already getting subsidized an enormous concern i have. i think you spoke previously. i'd like to understand the full cost of this program before all of the revenues are repealed. i certainly believe the medical tax and health tax on premiums have to go and flexible spending accounts, but we have to realize we might have to retain some revenue to pay for the
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i know the president-elect is watching and i would say to you, president-elect, i would be happy to meet with you at any moment but we have work to do. the american people want us to get to work for them and lift them up. and if you want to deal with prescription drugs and reducing the prices, i'm here with you. if you want to deal with health care for all, i'm here with you. >> it has been about six weeks since congressman elijah cummings appeared on "morning joe" and made that direct appeal to president trump for a meeting. that meeting happened yesterday and we are told they discussed several issues. the congressman says the president was, quote, enthusiastic about his plan with congressman pete welch to lower prescription drug prices. the baltimore democrat says he raised concerns about voters suppression and told the president the rhetoric about carnage in the inner cities has been hurtful and insulting to african-americans. the two spoke for about an hour and after,ward the congress was asked if the meeting did anything to change his opinions
about the president. >> it's hard, because somebody told me before i left to come here, said when you sit down with him, you're going to see one guy. and then you might see another guy tomorrow. but, you know, i'm having some faith and believing. we will see what happens. >> he is trying to have faith, joe. i guess. >> that is great. it is in everybody's best interest that the president of the united states succeeds. i think elijah cummings has been a role model for everybody. certainly in congress. democrats you're hold him to task for the things that you disagree with strongly. you speak truth to power. but you try to find areas to compromise. the good news is after that meeting, which, again, what an hour, which is very, very -- it's a pretty darn significant
chunk of any president's day to sit there and listen to criticisms. word came out that he wanted to meet with the entire congressional black caucus. he said that before, stop/start. i think elijah probably really got him thinking that was a badly needed next step. if that is the case that would have been a very successful meeting for everybody. >> congressman cummings joins us next on "morning joe."
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♪ >> and joining us now are the two representatives who met yesterday with president trump, the ranking member of the committee on oversight and government reform, democratic congressman eye elijah cummings of maryland. elijah you ve faith, should have fai this is a president calling barack obama a felon? >> i'm very upset about that, mika, i got to know barack obama quite well. >> right. >> i think that was an inappropriate comment.
i don't believe it and i think he should retract it but it's a little late for that but moving on to our meeting yesterday, it was a good meeting. he was very -- we went to talk about prescription drugs, peter welch and i and i thought that he was very enthusiastic about our proposal to allow medicare to negotiate for drug prices just as they do with va and medicaid and he saw -- he was very clear with regard to the issue. he knew the facts and as a matter of fact, he was even supportive of a proposal that we did not bring to him and that was one that bernie sanders and i have been working on, which is to allow the import of drugs, people to go across state lines and allow import of drugs from other countries because drugs are so much cheaper for
americans. he took our proposal and we made it clear that we wanted to file a bill with regard to the negotiation of drug prices within the next two weeks. he had secretary price there and he basically said to secretary price, get it done. and so i don't know how much more you can ask. >> so yeah, congressman welch, it sounds like the president was very open-minded on this issue and sounds like you have a reason to be optimistic that there could be big changes in this area. is that an accurate characterization? >> that is. you know, president trump is a businessman and he gets it, that you don't buy whole sale and pay retail and medicare is the biggest purchaser of prescription drugs and he also gets it basic free market principle is that buyer and seller negotiate. and the seller wants to get a high price and buyer wants to get a lower price.
the other thing i thought was very encouraging to me, he spoke about this in human terms, a lot of folks who voted for donald trump are really getting crushed by the high cost of prescription drugs and they are put in this life decision where they have to purchase something they really can't afford or go without medicine that they or a child or partner really needs. so he got it on the human level as well. there was no mystic fiction about it. he knows medicaid and va negotiates and we're getting ripped off. >> this is one important issue and one meeting and you both are saying things now that most democrats in washington and grass roots democrats around the country will recoil from and say, how can they go to the white house and have a meeting like this and speak so favorably of the president. explain to democrats what you saw in that room making both of you say such favorable things about them. >> to be frank with you, i
didn't know what to expect when i went in. i've said it before, you know, president trump is going to be the president for the next four years. in that four years is a long time. and i still have constituents out there, i have children in my district who need a good education. i need colleges that need to be funded. there are things we can find in common and joe and i have talked about this several times. there are things we can find in common to work on, i want to do those things. there's been no greater critic of donald trump that yours truly. so you speak truth to power, you -- i try to make sure that things like the ee mollu s meants closed and financial entanglements concern me, but at the same time, i need to get things down for my constituents.
the child who needs healthcare may not be able to wait for the next five years. i have to do what i can. >> mika and i have known him for 10, 11, 12 years and we always -- people ask what he's like. i saulz say and mika does too, as completely different off camera than he is when he's playing -- >> on the social level he's super generous and funny as hillary clinton said. it's really amazing. >> hillary has said it, other democrats have said it, is that the guy you saw in the room one on one, the guy who's charming and seems open-minded and quite frankly seems just the opposite of what he shows himself on tv? >> abtely, i mean -- >> go ahead. welsh, go ahead. >> you know, this was not really about getting to know donald trumd p, i never met him. here's what i saw in the meeting.
number one, he was knowledgeable about prescription drug prices and understood that people who voted for him were getting hammered and the practical reality is the republicans are putting up a wall of resistance and the only chance elijah and i and a lot of folks have to get lower prescription drug prices, make them affordable for people, to have the support of president trump. if we're serious about trying to get lower prescription drug prices and pay the highest in the world, people are getting hammered, then we've got to work with the president. >> all right, congressman peter welch and elijah cummings, thank you both. "washington post" robert costa joins us with his new reporting. weav we're back it just a moment. yeah, 103. well, let me ask you guys. how long did it take you two to save that? a long time. then it's a fortune. well, i'm sure you talk to people all the time who think $100k is just pocket change. right now we're just talking to you. i told you we had a fortune.
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all while reducing america's emissions. energy lives here. the art of the deal. >> i've been doing deals for a long time and making lots of wonderful deals, great deals, that's what i do. you're supposed to sit down with the democrats and republicans and liberals and conservatives and everybody else and you're supposed to hammer out deals. >> i think he feels very good about the product we've been out. we want to get this done, but the president has open mind. >> finding a deal on health care reform is donald ump's first real test as america's deal maker in chief and now he's in sell mode and has a lot of convincing to do, facing an uphill battle to bring moderate
and conservative republicans on board. can he turn his art of the deal into actual legislation? meanwhile, top senators are demanding answers as to why president trump would claim that president obama tapped his phones. they want evidence from the fbi and the justice department. good morning and welcome everyone, to "morning joe", it's thursday march 9th. we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle and senior analyst for nbc news and msnbc, mark halperin and political writer for "new york times"" and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. good to have you on board this morning. the white house challenged congress to investigate president trump's claim that president obama wiretapped his phone and now two top members of the senate judiciary committee are asking for more answers on this. lindsey graham and democratic
senator sheldon whitehouse, asked for evidence, writing to the deputy attorney general and director of the fbi, requesting the department of justice provide copies of any warrant applications and court orders related to wiretaps of president trump, his campaign or headquarters and joe, they add that it takes spying for political purposes seriously and would be equally alarmed to learn a court found enough evidence of criminal activity or contact with a foreign power to legally authorize a wiretap of president trump, the trump campaign or trump tower. here is senator lindsey graham speaking yesterday to nbc news. >> president trump claims that president obama administration targeted his campaign, trump tower in the tweet. i have no knowledge of that but he's challenged the congress to help him so let's help. if they don't give it to us, yeah, i'll subpoena it. i'm not trying tocompromise classified information or
compromise the investigation. the question is has there been a warrant issued? this is a major deal for the country. i want to get to the bottom of it. >> joe, some senators as you can see are not letting this go. i've heard from others who are close to the president to see, come on, his tweets are mental exspok lagss, don't take them seriously. is this a question that doesn't really demand an answer or is lindsey graham right? >> i feel like you're asking me a reto torhetorical question. >> i have trouble -- just making sure. >> james comey had his reputation soiled and every man and woman and every professional fbi had their reputations attacked by the president of the united states. of course, barack obama and everybody that worked in that administration had their reputations attacked, people who have given their entire lives to public service in member, had their reputations sullied by one
early morning tweet, which from what i'm hearing donald trump himself understood later on in the afternoon, he had gone too far. well, if he had gone too far, he could either apologize and say that he had bad information and he deeply regrets it, which we know he won't do, or this investigation must go forward. all i can say mark halperin, the lunch of the white house must not have been that impressive for lindsey because he came out and immediately pushing in this direction and again, here's the thing that's the most maddening to all of us. the justice department has this information. there does not need to be a congressional investigation. nobody has to waste thousands and thousands of dollars. this can get taken care of right away. >> well, maybe that one discreet piece but i think a goo sign for the country is when congress wants to do oversight in a
bipartisan way. the questions must be solved, not just to clear history but make sure it doesn't happen again. >> we're talking about this one specific thing where donald trump says barack obama accused. >> -- accusing the former president of a felony. >> it would be great if that were fast tracked but my hope is this attitude of getting to the bottom of it in a bipartisan way of what happened throughout the election season and in year earn president's recent claims, i hope that it all gets fast tracked in a way that both parties are actually trying to get to bottom of it as opposed to covering it up and let the facts -- let the facts come out and let both president obama and president trump deal with the implications of the whole story of how it was handled. it's clear from the way the intelligence community has been acting and what they brought forward and what they didn't, there's more to the story and more to the choices made for james comey to talk about hillary clinton's server for the
other stuff what russia did to not come out, there's more to the story. >> yeah, but again, the bottom line, on this one part that we're examining right now, somebody at the justice department could pick up the phone and say, nope, we or yes we did. and that's when the investigation explodes. everybody in washington, d.c. knows this did not happen. donald trump was not tapped, his phones and offices at trump towers were not tapped. was he picked up in an incidental wiretap of another associate under investigation? perhaps. guess what? we all are. that is a long stretch from barack obama wiretapped my offices, sad felo, mixonyan. >> there's a big battle over health care, as pressure moments from the right and left. top advocacy groups like the aarp, american medical association and american
hospital association all now oppose the gop's health care plan. citing its impact on vulnerable americans, early this morning the bill cleared the ways and means committee but some house and senate republicans are making sure that leadership understands that they don't have the votes to pass the bill. earlier in the day leaders from top conservative groups like heritage, club for growth, americans for prosperity, freedom works and tea party patriots expressed their deep reservations with the president. last night the president hosted his bitter primary rival ted cruz and wife heidi and two children for dinner. hours before that meeting the senator from texas said this about the bill. >> the bill as currently drafted would not pass the united states senate. >> speaker ryan yesterday said when the vice president and president are open to negotiations, what they mean is that here anything you want to add in phase two or three? what do you make of it? >> i think the president was
very clear when he said this bill is open for negotiation. that's exactly right and the bill as written is not going to pass the senate. >> next week members of the house freedom caucus are invited to the white house for pizza and bowling. there is a difference of opinion back to health care and whether there is room to hagle. >> how different do you think the bill is going to be after the markup? >> no. >> no changes? >> no, absolutely not. >> still not going to support it? >> not there. needs major choice. they are saying trump is a negotiator, here's something on paper, now let's make it better. >> okay. what do you think, joe? >> well, i think sam stein that when y have the aarp against the bill and the american medical association against the bill and freedom works against the bill and heritage against the bill and club for growth against the bill, that bill is not going to pass the house of
representatives and more importantly, i think donald trump may believe that because he won the election all of these people are going to cav. i know in my case that every time i voted against a bill, even my own party's bill and went back to my district and said it wasn't conservative enough, my numbers went way up not down. i did that in the middle of a republican tidal wave. all of these guys that the white house thinks they can run over are guys that get elected in 2010 and have had their entire political lives framed by health care like my entire political life was framed by balanced budgets and lower deficits. >> i'm curious, i want your take to, on the one hand all of those groups are against it, not just conservative groups but patients and hospitals and senior advocacy groups and on the other hand, this is what i'm curious on. you look at approval ratings,
they are in the tank for everything except for republican voters. he's gone 88, 90% favorable rating among republican voters. my curiosity is whether if i'm a lawmaker on fence about this bill, i look at that and say, if trump really puts his shoulder into this and really starts owning this advocating for it saying it is critical to his entire agenda, which you could make the case it is, everything is predicated on getting something passed here. are you going to go back to the district and say you know what, i'm not there on this bill that our president, the leader of our party, the one who you like supports. that's where the tension is f me. i think there's a lot in the bill you can say if you're a republican no, i can't do this. it hits elderly people and the poor and premiums could skyrocket and going to be pretty bad. but in the end, if donald trump wants it, what kind of pressure does that put on you, joe?
>> it depends what type of member you have, if somebody that helped elect donald trump, they'll have to follow donald trump. for 2012, 2014, it's simple, i did this a million times. if i were them, i support donald trump but i support you more. and if i'm going from their viewpoint, the freedom works viewpoint, i would say socialism lite is not that much better than socialism -- >> here's the problem. if he takes -- apparently at this tea party meeting he basically was acknowledging their concerns but the way he was doing it is going to make this bill a lot harder to pass in the senate. he says the medicaid draw down we have coming in 2020, maybe we can move that up to 2018. if you're a u.s. senator, republican u.s. senator who's from a state that expanded medicaid. do you want to have that expansion downgraded in january of 2018 during an election year.
that's a tough pill to swallow. >> yeah, here's the deal, sam, everybody has said and i'm sure you heard it working around the hill, democrats and republicans always joked that the house of representatives is not a democratic institution. it's a toe tal tar yan dictatorship. they may be able to pass this thing by one vote. may. i don't know if they are going to in the house. >> still ahead on "morning joe", wild accusations of wiretapping and travel ban that went no the est's supporters are defecting, right? wrong says columnist john podoreis, why they are sticking around for now. >> did the inner circle for tell the challenge to the president's travel ban? you're watching "morning joe." it's never been easier.
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hawaii has become the first state to sue over the president's filing ban. the second executive order is infected with the same legal problems as the first order. undermining bedrock constitution and -- constitutional and statutory guarantees. hawaii attorney general doug chin said it is nothing more than muslim ban 2.0 and the lawsuit states that the new travel ban will harm hawaii's muslim population along with the state's private businesses and lucrative tourism industry and cites comments by steven miller who described any changes to the initial travel ban as technical adjustments intended to preserve the same basic policy outcome. >> one of the big differences that you're going to see in the executive order is that it's going to be responsive to the judicial ruling which didn't
exist previously. and so those are mostly minor technical differences, fundamentally, you're still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country but you're going to be responsive to a lot of technical issues brought up by the court and those will be addressed but in terms of protecting the country, those are basic policies are still going to be in effect. >> is hawaii just the beginning? >> i don't flow if it's just the beginning but the case is so much weaker this time. the attorney general should be ashamed of himself for calling this muslim ban 2.0. it's not a muslim ban. anybody who is serious would not suggest it's a muslim ban. there were seven countries selected by bara obaman a bipartisan team in congr by all of congress, that posed the greatest threat whether it came to giving visas under a certain program, every court that's reasonable and rational and fair
would look at that and see that as actually something that depends on actual data. they actually took iraq out of it. it's more tightly tailorred and you have the minority language taken out, more tightly tailored, as for the legal experts saying we need to go back to see what donald trump said in december of 2015 and jump up and down, he called it a ban, at the beginning of the campaign and change positions 12 times and by the end talking bg extreme vetting. no serious judge would say, you know what, i'm going to take the first thing he said in a heated campaign instead of what he said at the end and that's going to mean more than what's actually in here. the same thing with steven miller, steven miller was on fox news trying to convince supporters of a political argument. and courts at least the serious
judges i've known my entire life are going to look what's on the paper, mark halperin, instead of listening to what somebody said in a fox news town hall meeting where he did oh, my god, this is shocking, what every white house person has done for 240 years played to the audience. that is not at the end of the day relevant if, especially if you have the department of homeland security all of these other agencies who have been changing and updating and upgrading this policy in the month since he said that on fox news. >> i agree with the merits with what you said, including on the one point about how they should look atheer and not at what people said on cable tv as much as i love cable tv. we both now one federal judge can do whatever he or she wants. i've not studied who the judges are in the district that covers hawaii but i'll bet some of them
are pretty liberal and maybe result oriented enough to say i'm going to count what steven miller said on cable or rudy giuliani said, if they do, they do a national restraining order that would put them right back where they are. >> coming up on "morning joe" donald trump was applauded for running a grass roots campaign, often times in small towns. coming up, why some say he was actually the first president to run a silicon valley style startup. we'll explain that just ahead. there's nothing more than my vacation.me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kid-friendly to kid-free. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins.
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xbl we are going through what i would call the typical growing pains from being an opposition party fighting barack obama and nancy pelosi and harry reid to a governing party. now we're translating that legislation, that plan into a bill. >> just ahead on "morning joe, republicans trying to repeal obamacare before hope it's a coming of age story. we'll be join by robert costa with the latest reporting on whether the gop can get on the same page. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> we should say a check of the winter forecast, unfortunately. here it comes after a nice warm stretch, winter is returning in a big way, snow and cold
invading the northern plains. this will move later tonight into tomorrow through areas of pennsylvania, new york city, southern new england, 27 million people under a winter weather advisory for this region. this isn't a big snowstorm. if you look at the key here the 2 and 3 and few spots in the pink which is 4 inches, the timing is going to be the problem, the heaviest snows 3:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. or 8:00 a.m., the possibility of school delays too. philadelphia, your roads may be slushy or wet but around new york city it could be the worst. now let's talk about the cold coming down today into montana and minneapolis, st. louis, 75 degrees, chance of a storm or two then the cold invades the great lakes on friday and heading into the northeast on saturday. there's still a possibility of some southern snow in tennessee and also north carolina on saturday into sunday and maybe even a coastal nor'easter with a
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welcome back to "morning e joe." the editor of commentary magazine and columnist for the new york post, john podoreus and nbc political analyst robert costa. you have new reporting on trump going into deal making mode working behind the scenes on the health bill. what can you tell us? >> great to be with you, mika, the president had a group of conservative leaders at the white house last night and they sat around the oval office and vented. they don't like obamacare-lite
and trump said i'm not driven by ideology, i wanto get this done. i need youn my side here. what are your concerns? how can we get you to the finish line, according to two people in the room. the congressional leaders are okay with this tactic by the president, him working behind the scenes rather than be a public spokesman for the bill. >> well, john, your ears must have been burning yesterday, we were talking about your column a lot on the show. >> thank you. >> for viewers, here's part of what you wrote. trump supporters are sticking with him for now. the barrage of stories and counter attacks from the white house and twitter and tv would lead you to believe this is a presidency in neonatal crisis. well, guess what, in the realm of public opinion the bad press is having little to no effect. what these poms show is that trump voters are sticking with him. they give him -- they are giving him a chance. for them the election just shapd and the idea his administration is on the verge of collapse is
ridiculous, after all, he just got there. i don't dispute that. do dispute that the presidency is a-okay right now after 45 days of lie after lie and tweet after tweet. >> by the way, i'm not talking about this in terms of how it should be viewed and the realm of history or political conductor philosophy, i mean that the data show that the people who voted for him haven't turned on him and so he got 46% of the vote and got about 46% you know, in -- 46% approval rating and the trick with people like him or president or politicians like him, when his own people, his own base start turning away from him. when you look at it and say why hasn't it happened. people like us, we don't understand what people who don't watch your show for three hours a day, don't read my column,
aren't on twitter 12 hours a day think about life what they see -- >> peoe who have lives? >> yeah, that's right, actual people who don't live in this atmosphere. >> joe, these are people you know and talk to all the time. >> it is and john, i actually tweeted out -- i tweeted out your column and said everybody in the media and everybody in washington needs to read this column because you're exactly right. we are shocked and stunned and deeply saddened by everything going around and you said people that don't watch our show for three hours a day, you're exactly right. i talked to my relatives, every business person i know across america, that even the ones that didn't like trump, they now like him. they don't care about the tweets or care about anything, they don't care about the insults of judges or insults to the press, they like gorsuch and they are
completely zoned out from what concerns us. you're exactly right. if you're for trump on election day, chances are good you're for trump today. >> right. he doesn't appear to be doing anything to grow that support but, you know, it's like if you cast with him, he picked the supreme court justice and tackling obamacare, that kind of stuff. >> look, i think -- the attacks by the media has hardening of the resolve among that base. i don't think the democrats can pull that number down and media can't pull that number. what can pull that down, what we were talking about earlier. if you have people in trump country or impacted by a loss of health insurance, loss of health care coverage, that's real. >> the jobs don't start coming back, if the factories keep
shutting down, then that becomes real. but the democrats have a problem here too. and it's their cdeation of of the trump voter, as opposed to creating a space, looking ahead, four years time and saying we want you to come back. we want to welcome you back into our side, into our fold but very tough to do with the relentless condemnation and questioning of the intentions of those voters who are traditionally democratic voters in wisconsin and ohio and michigan and pennsylvania, questioning their motives, you're a racist because it will polarize the electorate and make them unable to cross back over. >> bernie sanders is trying to do that, traveling around the country. >> i wonder why. but you know, robert costa, in addition to what steve just articulated, is there any sense within the white house and there must be, i'm answering the question as i ask it, that we in the media are literally
operating on a different calendar, a different clock than the average american. they have wives and kids moving through the work day and we have -- we articulate a daily crisis in the trump presidency which probably exists at some level. are they banking on the fact that most people out there assume that he just finished being inaugurated yesterday, day 48 of his presidency. >> that's a smart point. based on my reporting, you have bannon working with kushner and priebus and they have white boards in the office and list the promises that president trump made during the campaign. and their whole view, they want to plit size the media to make the media a foil and then they think that media is more of a threat to trump's chances and his presidency and the democratic party because republicans control both chambers of congress. and so this is how they are operating. they think as long as they are fighting with the media, they
think it serves trump to have confrontational politics. what his real challenge is not winning over the media, it's winning over mainstream a conservative republicans. >> john podohretz, we already established we're clueless and out of touch with most americans, put a big check mark by that. >> check. >> do not bother my relatives or most business people across america. are you concerned on any level about the fact that you have a president that can lie about a previous president accuse him of watergate style crimes that you have a president that uses s stalin terms like enemy of the people and yet nobody seems to care. supporters don't seem to care. >> the question also goes to intensity. >> supporters, 46 of americans don't seem to care.
>> here's my intensity of support versus the intensity of opposition matters. republicans are -- have been too quick to poo poo the meaning of the marches and opposite, intensity of the opposition to him is an accelerant potentially, a way of raising a huge amount of money and motivating a huge number of volunteers for the midterms in 2018, which democrats have historically with the exception of 2006, performed pretty badly in mid terms for the past 25 years. that's a real thing and the intensity of trump's support might be dwarfed by the intensity of opposition if the democratic party can find people who fit the districts where they might be able to knock off republicans and take back the house. >> let's bring in "time" magazine's maximo calla brees.
you look at his war on government and what it does to core institutions ev s of ameri democracy. look at the video, that's our president tweeting. and it's gotten to a point i think of -- i don't know. at this point i have already stated i'm very nervous at the direction this is going in. it doesn't seem to be just stupidity. >> i think it comes -- it comes out of the conversation you were just having, there's an he is kahlah tri nature how trump has engaged and a lot of that has to do what we write about in in article, with the order of battle of his war on washington. he declared war on washington and he's come and has a lot of power in many ways to take that war on government to the field.
so we spend a lot of time looking at the plans that bannon and white house council, spoke with both on the record, have for tearing down the bureaucracy and for bringing down the administrative state. but what happens and what we saw with the tweets over the weekend, when institutional checks on the power of trump and power of the presidency to effect that war impede him, how he reacts and his rehis move has been to reach for twitter and that base of people who believe he just got here and just getting going, like gorsuch and then to mobilize them. the question becomes what happens when trump bumps up against real constitutional institutional checks and reaches for his political base. how does the government that he has sworn to attack respond and what happens in that clash? it's an important question and it will play out politically as well. >> mike barnicle.
>> you spoke to mr. bannon and others on the record. his phrase deconstruct the administrative state. i don't know what that means. but there are a couple of pillars of american government that have been a constant in the lives of millions of americans, things like social security and medicare and medicaid. what does deconstruct the state mean? >> there's an important debate going on about the buildup in the executive branch separate from the legislative branch and judiciary, the three pillars of our constitutional government, the buildup in the executive branch of powers that seem to encroach on the other two. so rule making is seen by antagonists of the administrative state as encroaching on law making and a whole network of administrative courts that oversee things like environmental regulations or the implementation of rules
throughout government are seen as encroaching on article iii judiciary powers and bannon said this has grown into a branch of government has larger than all of the other three combined. they refer to it as the fourth branch of government. defenders say in a complicated world where technology and science are advancing, there's no way to expect that congress alone will be able to properly implement every single rule and every single law on its own and you need the bureaucracy to implement that. that's what the administrative state is. >> we'll look for the new issue of "time" magazine. there's the cover there. bob costa, let's move -- take that conversation, bannon and other members of the inner circle aside from the foreign policy team, what reporting do you have about how it's been inside the white house since saturday morning's tweets and then the incorrect tweet monday
morning, i guess. are they able to say anything to him? is anybody -- does anybody have the ability to step up and explain the things don't go well when he lies? >> well, there's this image out therehat the president is this isolated person tweeting alone on aatury morning. my reporting bears out a different kind of picture. bannon is near the president, constantly. he has his view not only deconstructing the administrative state in his mind but he tells many people inside of the white house that he wants to deconstruct what he calls the deep state, the intelligence community and administrative apparatus built up around there. he has confided with trump -- >> bob, 6:00 in the morning, steve bannon is with him tweeting? >> he was not there on saturday morning ats mar-a-lago but with the president on friday reviewing those breitbart areas and ta articles and talking about
former obama officials leaking against them. >> i think there's an important point to be made here that the outrage over his weekend tweets, some of this was stimulated by pieces in the "new york times" that allege that former officials in the obama administration and people inside the government were leaving trails of bread crumbs for intelligence for people to find, you know, go at the administration in office. and so while -- while this notion that he was being wiretapped at trump tower may not be true and is likely -- certainly not to be true, the notion that there is inside the government a hostile -- a hostile people inside the government who wish to deconstruct it from the inside against trump is true. >> okay, so joe -- the buck
doesn't stop with donald trump, since it does because he's the president, at what point does steve bannon stop saying okay -- >> the president tat saturday morning could have called his fbi director and could have called any of the ranking members or the majority members of the intel committees and called anybody in government to find out that what bann oxbanno telling him was a lie. he chose to look at the breitbart article. and conspiracy theories. he made that choice. so there are "new york times" articles that talked about the obama administration spreading bread crumbs, john. but it's quite a leap to go from there to saying that obama was a nixonian figure. >> i agree with you but i think it's important if people want to understand what's going on to say that there are nuggets of
reality in this sea of trumpian paranoia and fantasy. the nugget of reality is that he does have an incredibly hostile press -- >> he does. >> and there are people inside the government who would like to take him down from the inside. and that may not be -- >> none of that though, john, adds up to that tweet though. >> not at all. i agree with you. >> as we have been warning the president of the united states on this show for four or five months -- everybody in washington, they are going to attack back. is the intel community attacking him? yeah, i wonder why because he said they were nazis. if donald trump were actually paying attention to what was happening during the iraq war, he would have seen just about every crisis george w. bush faced in 2003 and 2004 came from leaks from the intel community. >> here's an important point, which is you're right that as
you should understand that he's fighting a war he can't win but in the terms of how power is supposed to flow in washington, permanent government is not supposed to make war on the president either. that is not the way -- >> exactly. >> the executive branch is supposed to serve the president, the civil service exists to serve different administrations and people of different ideologalogical -- >> that's why you have such a real reluck tans for this hiring against the executive branch. tillerson at state and the white house is really paying close attention to all of these lower ranked hires because they want to make sure they are trump people and aren't hostile actors inside these agencies or departments. >> john podohretz, it was the fbi leaking information from the very beginning about hillary clinton and her server and when barack obama came out and said he didn't think there was anything that threatened national security, you had fbi
agents leaking to the "new york times." >> they were -- >> found out and sent to jail -- that's really bad. >> it's not just donald trump, not you, but if you're in the trump administration and you think this is unique to you, you're extraordinarily paranoid because this is how washington worked for 50 years. it might help talk radio show's audience to pretend history began on january 20th, 2017, wouldn't you agree with me, this has been how washington has worked for years? >> yeah, but you would agree with me, i think, that idealogically, the views let's say of the permanent government probably align more closely with obama than with trump, right? so he may have more to fear from an institutional attack from inside than obama ever did. the attack was on hillary not on obama after all. >> except i agree with that
except for the fact that there were leaks against barack obama's administration as well and chances are pretty good donald trump would not even be president today, he would be lfing down in mar-a-lago were it not for that permanent government ten days before the election actually writing a letter saying wait a second we found a lot of e-mails and anthony weiner's laptop, boy, that's something. >> so i think we can have a more global question about whether or not the fbi should be controlling presidential elections and then transitions and first several months of add an misdemeanor, for breitbart to suggest this is a republican phenomenon, that's a level of dementia, selective dementia that is unhealthy. let's have the discussion about how it impacted hillary clinton's campaign as well. >> and thank you, anthony
weiner. >> all right, robert costa, john podohretz. >> three words -- four words rarely said actually on television. >> thank you, anthony weiner. >> thank you. we're here in part -- might even say completely because of anthony weiner and his laptop. still ahead, major news from china is reigniting the debate over possible conflicts of interest regarding the president's business empire. we'll talk about that next. various: (shouting) heigh! ho!
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let's bray bring in sara icen live. we're back on oil watch, prices have plunged in the last 24 hourds below $50 a barrel. they spent most of the year in the mid-50 per barrel range. it's a very oil friendly administration and that's causing concerns about supply and pressuring prices, a good thing for consumers the average gas price is $2.30 and should go down because of the move. it is a negative thing for the overall stock market and energy stocks make up a big part of the stock market. so that could put pressure on stocks and wanted to mention news on the trump business, china has granted 38 new trademarks for trump brands. everything from spa services and hotels and golf clubs and applications were filed last april when he was still campaigning and there's no
evidence that there was special consideration given to president trump since he won the election, still as you know, this is likely to just keep fueling the questions about the conflict of interest. already democratic senator ben cardin has tweeted about it. raising questions so this will continue even though there's know evidence as i mentioned that it was a special -- it was specially condered he' building in china right now. >> cnbc's sara eisen, thank you very much. >> move fast and break things. that's a famous silicon valley mond mantra from facebook but trump administration is bracing it as it's own. charles du dg hig he argues that president trump is the first genuine silicon valley startup candidate and president and you argue this on what grounds? >> idealogically president trump is very different from silicon
valley. if you look at the campaign methods they use and management techniques not just in the campaign but in the white house, they were modeled explicitly off of silicon valley. this is the first candidate and president to come in i want to disinterest mediate all who used to keep me from the voters. >> he is disruptive, that's fair to say. >> it's interesting when he went in and met with the tech people, had the first massive meeting, everybody was saying they are not going to get along, they all hate him politically and i looked around that table and said wait a second everybody around that table is quirky and everybody can be angry and everybody has their own oversized personality and everybody around the table does not take no for an answer. i thought when i was looking there other than mike pence, i thought looking around that table, wait a second, of all of the industries donald trump can
sit down and meet with, he's probably more aligned emotionally with those guys and women than anybody else. >> that's absolutely right. if you think about it, what is silicon valley famous for? taking huge risks in an attempt to change the world. that's exactly what mr. trump did as well in this campaign. i'm not saying i'm a trump supporter or most people in silicon valley agree with the trump addology, he embodies a new theme in campaigning and governing, i don't have to work through the old power structures. i can go directly to voters and use technology to take my message and out reach out there and scale very quickly. yore going to see and already seeing it in campaigns popping up rightnow, a whole new style of managing campaigns. >> but a lot of websites burst on the whorizon that way, steve >> the story of facebook is also the story of mark zuckerberg growing up and sheryl sand berg coming in. it seems at some point the
sheryl sandberg figure who br g brings normalization to a company and able to scale it is something needed in this administration. one of the things that was broken here and being made worse, the continued downward pressure on trust in institutions. and this is where these analogies fall short. american democracy requires the american people have trust in our core institutions and as those collapse, then the systems collapse, there are disturbing poll numbers out about the belief of people born in the 1980s and 1990s about the efficacy of democracy. >> i think you're right that trust is important but it isn't defined by the institution itself. it's defined by the people trusting it. when it comes to millennials, we see a historic low in the trust of the institutions of government and democracy, but the answer then isn't to say well, we should just go back to what we did ten years ago.
the answer is to say, how in the new economy, new world do we create new trust. people trust facebook. might not trust fake news but trust mark zucker burg and google. it's up to government to prove we deserve that trust. >> one way to start i think would be not to lie, joe, final thoughts? >> well, you know, i just want to sort of piggyback on what steve schmidt said, my biggest concern is the fact we do have a new generation of people and a lot of americans that seem to be disconnected from our constitutional heritage and from a lot of the things that made up the fabric of the american experience over the past 240 years and right nowitust doesn't seem to count for much for a lot of people starting with our president. >> that does it for us this morning on that note. stephanie rule picks up