tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 15, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
over the years and not for the better. get a copy of my book over the weekend "tip and the gipper. kwael "and that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" stats right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes and a very happy friday. you might have done a double take if you saw the "new york times" front page news analysis today. the paper of record headlining its lead story online, quote, health law rollout stumbles. draw parallels to bush's hurricane response. of course, obama's katrina is such a lame, played out right wing mean that it was already a daily show punch line all the back back in 2009. daft, semantically bankrupt, you hear any time anything goes badly in america since 2009 in america. >> it's been called obama's
katrina. >> is this obama's katrina. >> president obama's katrina. >> crazy. it's like no matter what happens during the obama administration, there's the perfect bush [ bleep ] up. for the occasion. >> good health care could be obama's iraq? >> is this as some are suggesting, barack obama's enron. >> this could be obama's 9/11. >> are we now watching obama's mission accomplished speech? >> they have their heck of a job up brownie moment. >> this is obama's my pet goat moment. >> the crazy part is, it's conservatives and republicans that are in the biggest rush to make the comparisons. remember that terrible thing that bush did that we thought for eight years to convince you wasn't bad but actually good? well, now we use those very incidents as the low-water mark for your guy.
>> the katrina comparison specifically deserves a five-second rebuttal. we do it by showing this handy chart from media manners of deaths in katrina compared to those from the affordable care rollout. so no, "new york times," no katrina. obama care is very much its own thing. it's a long brutal battle to make more real the promise of a decent society for all. if you're anything like me, you have watched the last several weeks unfold with a potent mix of rage, frustration and exasperation. as i follow the coverage, i find myself pitted off at just about everyone. i'm angry at a white house that failed to properly implement the single most important law they have ever passed or that anyone has passed in a generation. that handed their idealogical and political enemies ammunition which they're now gleefully firing off at anything that moves including allies and
politicians who backed the white house and vouched for the law with voters. for us on the payer single left, the spectacle is maddening since many of us spent years noting the drawbacks and complexity of the romney care mandate and subsidies model. we worried insurance companies would use the law to manipulate and panic consumers. those of us who worried about that but ultimately embraced and celebrated the oohaca as a mass step forward in the long step for justice. i'm also angry at mainstream media which has managed to elevate the stories of a very small sliver of the health insurance market into a national panic. while largely allowing the names and faces and falts of the millions of poor people who will be denied health care by republican governors to remain anonymous and untold. but most of all, i'm quite simply appalled as i watch a
republican party and conservative movement not even pretend to hide their glee and schadenfreude over problems with the law they have done everything in their power to sabotage, destroy, and discredit. a law that at its base makes sure that tens of millions of our fellow citizens are delivered from the terror and anguish and hardship of a morally bankrupt status quo to a modicum of care. jonah goldberg comes out and sedz, quote, if you can't take some joy, some modicum of relief in the unprecedentedly spectacular beclowning of the president, then you need to ask yourself why you're following politics in the first place. because frankly, this has been one of the most enjoyable political moments of my lifetime. i read that, and i thought, what the hell is wrong with you? that's why you're in politics? that's why you follow it?
to point and laugh at becloning? to work out some weird adles nlt infear yourty comblex. it's bracing to see conservat e conservatives stop pretending to even care about the plight of the people they were pretending to care about for expediency's sake just a short time ago. even conservatives i like, even philip cline, a conservative reporter i like and follow, he tweeted this. great new said from alaska, parnel won't expand medicaid. this is how it's done. great news. no health care for up to 40,000 poor alaskans. that's great news for conservatives. those of us committed to a humane future of support and solidarity and compassionering that's what we're up against. and finally, i'm angry at democratic politicians who are starting to go wobbly. >> it's really disappointing to all of us, to the people that we serve, that it hasn't been rolled out better. >> there are provisions that need to be fixed. >> many americans don't feel
well served. >> i have been frustrated from day one. >> i will never forget the morning of january 20th, 2010. a fight for health reform was not over. the house's more liberal bill stelneeded to be reconciled with the senate's more conservative version, but scott brown had just declared victory in the race to replace ted kennedy. i was walking on capitol hill to my office, and there wads this horrible depressing blanket of quiet. it felt like a day of a funeral. i ran into a member of the progressive caucus from the house and he was walking on the street, looked like he had been crying, stumbling around in a dades, and he shook his said and said, well, it's over, and he walked away. what happened next is basically nancy pelosi met with her caucus and told them to get it together. that they would pass the law as is, no matter what it took, and for democrats attempting to abandon the mission, she reminded them it was too late to
dismantle the law. everyone had already voted for the ing. the same is true now. there is no separating yourself from this law. that goes for all of us on the left. if you think the aca can go down and leave you unscathed, you are sorely mistaken. we are all on the same boat. this law has had near death experiences more times than i can count. i have covered a dozen of them, and it's not just bad luck or that the law is cursed or the people pushing it aren't good at their jobs. it's because it's hard. health care is 20% of our economy. there are trillions of dollars on the line, and shareholders and companies and workers and doctors and medical device manufacturers and hospitals and patients. people, health care is something every sigil person used, and every time in every country, a society has decided to reform the delivery of it, it has been done against the kicking and screaming and sabotage and backlash and rage of entrenched interest and reactionaries. there is a reason almost a
century's worth of presidents and congresses tried and failed to pass health care reform. all is a reason passing and maintaining the affordable care act has been so arduous. because it's the most ambitious piece of social legislation in this country in a generation. amidst the deserved criticisms and bad press and the undeserved hysteria and shameful gloating, one thing is clear. the only path left for those of us committed for health care for is forward. no retreat, no surrender, no going back. the only way out is through. this won't be the last battle. others will come, and there will be more after that, and there's ever, ever going to be some calm final equilib rium where everything works. because nothing worth doing ever came without. joining me now is former
governor of vermont and former chairman of the dnc, howard dean, and dean nichols, the-co author of dollarocracy. i have been interested to hear your comments. what's your reaction to the news today about the house getting about 30-plus democrats to vote for this bill that is going to allow people to keep their old plans and the president meeting with insurance executives? how are you seeing all this? >> pretty much the way you are. a bunch of democrats going wobbly and getting nervous. i looked at the list of people who voted, some of whom i like and some of whom are fairly progressive, but they're all in tough districts. this is what they do in washington. my view, chris, is much more long-term than that. i, like you, prefer at least a public option, and i have to say had we had at least a public option, we wouldn't have this problem because i signed up for medicare last month and it took
me ten minutes. we wouldn't have this problem, but we do. so i agree with you. this can work. the vote was essentially to go and use the private sector to expand health care. the swiss do it, the dutch do it. this can work, and it will work. but the website is a problem. and that's led to other problems. and i'm just exactly where you are. my folks saying to the folks in washington is get a grip. sign people up. if you have to do it over the phone or on paper, do it. and once this gets signed up, once people get signed up, they're going to like this plan and this problem is going to be over. >> john, you and i, i think, are both member said of what we might call the single-payer left. i have seen some rumb blblings discontent saying, well, we said this is going to be comicated. health insurance companies are not to be trusted. all of which i agree with, but i think it's important progressives understand we're bound to this law. this law is the best shot we have at getting about 30 to 40
million people health insurance. we're bound to it. we're bound to its success or failure. >> well, i think you're right, chris, in a lot of levels. you know, there is a humanitarian side to this that we ought to put up front and center. and that is that this law is about getting health care to tens of millions of people who don't have it. and if it is not the law you or i would have written, that does not mean that we shouldn't be engaged with the process of making it work. remember, if you really do believe in health care for all, if you believe in say, a medicare for all model, you have to understand there are steps that take you places. in the 1930, i would have been in favor of an old-age pension that guaranteed every person over the age of 65 had, you know, all that they needed in their senior years. instead, we got a very limited social security program. but to say that, wow, we should have opposed social security because we could have gotten something better, i don't think that's the way it works.
one final thing i would say is all of these plans have always, always been hard to do. >> yes. >> social security was a fight. medicare, medicaid was a fight. the americans with disabilities act, you go back and read the stories from 20 years ago, and there's so many similarities with people saying, oh, this is going to bankrupt everybody. it's going to be a crisis. look where we're at today. >> howard, the other thing i found remarkable watching everything unfold is you started to see republicans be like, we have to talk about what our alternatives are. it's just so patented disingenuous, i want to pull my hair out. your alternative was romney care, the thing that we passed. and it absolutely -- >> right. >> if anybody came around and said, okay, we're going to pass your thing, that would be socialism. >> well, the thing about this is so interesting is that the president's ratings are at an all-time low, and they're still 30 points higher than the republicans' ratings. the republican party is a
negative party. they have no constructive solutions to talk about. the ones they do talk about are half crazy most of the time. and so they're not really -- you don't take them seriously. this bill that they passed, today, was a joke. all it did was gut the health insurance. they might as well have just passed for the 47th time a bill about abolishing obama care. they're not serious people. some of them are serious people. they don't behave as if they're serious people and the american people know it. so we're in this on our own to fix it. it ought to be fixed. this tech problem is not anything special. it's not a surprise that this got screwed up, but it can be fixed if people are willing to work hard to do it. >> that's part of what is so remarkable about this particular political circumstance, is that there just is no -- you know, the president said this the other day, in normal times i can get on the phone to the speaker and say let's fix this. you heard a lot of people make mention of the medicare part d expansion. there just is no help on the other side, right?
i mean, there is nothing happening. there is nothing coming from the other side. there is no investment in seeing this work. >> well, it's more than that. there's a huge investment in making it fail. >> right. >> the fact of the matter is that hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent on political campaigns, on me messaging, on legal strategies, all designed to make this affordable care act fail. and at this point, it's become not a fight about health care implementation, and frankly not a fight about websites or the access. those are things that, as howard dean says, can be fixed. what this is really a fight about is politics. and there is a political party in the united states that is hugely invested in making this fail. and they're certainly not going to blink at this point. the question is whether the party that's invested in making it work will blink. >> i have to say that i just am -- i find myself happy that i go to work every day invested in success rather than failure.
i just -- i just think that in the sort of macrosense of this, in what is good for one's soul and one's outlook, getting people health care, which is at the root of this whole thing, that is the project. the project has bib apodesed. the project has to be seen to its completion by hook or by crook. >> that's the interesting thing. it's so fascinating to see this because what it means is there's still one party trying to move forward. maybe we haven't got the right solution. maybe people are upset, but we're the party that believes america can do better. the republicans are the party that essentially are rooting against america, and it's kimming them. they are not benefitting at all because of our problems. >> former dnc chairman howard dean and john nichols. thank you both. coming up -- >> i get a bill from my insurance company telling me that the ambulance ride was not going to be paid for because it wasn't preapproved. i don't know exactly when i was supposed to preapprove it, you
know? like after i gained consciousness in the car, before i got in the ambulance, or i should have grabbed my cell phone off the street? and called while i was in the ambulance. i mean, it's just crazy. >> what millions of americans already known about insurance companies the obama administration is now finding out. i'll explain ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] more room in economy plus. more comfort, more of what you need. ♪ that's... built around you friendly. ♪ that's... built around you friendly. isn't good enough for you?rware have -- have you seen it? yes, i have seen it, and it looks -- you gotta look better. ladies, breathe. cascade kitchen counselor here.
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care, the president met with the nation's top insurance company executives at the white house. but insurance companies didn't just get attention from the president today. they also got a nod from the house. in the form of a bill called the keep your health plan act. >> the bill is passed. >> today, house republicans and a few dozen democrats passed the keep your health plan act. a bill that doesn't guarantee you can keep your plan, but does allow insurers to keep offering plans that aren't up to aca standards. and even offer new ones. >> the debate today on whether to support the bill comes down to a very simple question. why not? >> it's an embrace of the status quo that has allowed insurance companies to sell junk insurance for years. bankrupting millions of americans. and right now, those companies are celebrating. talking points memrow writes, the affordable care act was designed to make sure all americans had a certain level of
inshrps. but tpm has used the u.s. health group is actively telling consumers they don't need that minimum level. company representatives are telling people they would be better off without it. in other words, some insurance companies are using the confusion around obama care to scam people. and other insurers are sending letters cancelling plans without explaining to people the full scope of the law. as the wall street journal reported back in september, in kentucky, humana disclosed only in a footnote that policy holders have the option to enroll in rival plans on the exchanges. meanwhile, the state of arizona rejected aetna pfaetna's reques distribute an advertising brochure. and it continued. in washington, the state's insurance commissioner told the wall street journal, two insurers neglected to tell consumers they could switch carriers or shop on the marketplace. all the cancellations and
confusion prompted the president to speak. >> i hear you loud and clear. i said that i would do everything we can to fix this problem, and today, i'm offering an idea that will help do it. >> insurers were less than enthusiastic with the fix, and today in response, they were treated to a meeting with the president. >>ia appreciate all these folks coming in. we're going to be soliciting ideas from them. this is going to be a collaborative process. we want to get this done. >> right now, insurers say they're willing to work with the administration. >> there's a lot of work to be done, but we think we can reinstate our policy holders. >> let's remember who we're working with here. it's the same industry that privately gave tens of millions of dollars to oppose the affordable care act. at the same time they were publicly supporting it. the bottom line is this, the white house is now in an arranged marriage with insurance companies, but the latest episode should teach them once and for all what millions of americans already know too well. insurance companies are not to
be trusted. joining me now is wendell potter, a former head of communications at the insurance company aetna and author of "obama care, what's in it for me" what everybody needs to know about the obama care act. if you had to guess, there was no press inside the meeting between the president and health insurance executives. if you had to guess what was going on in the meeting, what would you say? >> i would say that the president was saying, look, guys, we have to work together. this law will help you in the long run. it will help keep you guys in business. so let's do something for at least those you serve for a little while. at least let's get through this next month. the problem is, of course, the president felt boxed in to do this because there was some members of his own party, particularly in the senate, but also in the house, who were caving and who were making it necessary for him to take this step. plus, his own administration was not doing such a keen job getting the website up and
running. so unfortunately, the president had to do this. i'm sure he had to do it and did it very regretfully. >> do you think the relationship between -- how would you describe the change between the relationship between the federal government and insurance companies before obama care and the federal government and insurance companies now that obama care is being implemented? >> before the affordable care act was passed, insurance companies really pretty much had their way with members of congress. and they clearly still do. hence we saw the law -- the bill that was passed in the house side, which fortunately will go no further than that, but they have also had a lot of democrats in their pockets as well, too. we lost the public option because of that. they did have to go along with a lot of changes in how they do business, and it might be a good reminder the reasons why i left my job in the industry after 20 years. i couldn't in good conscience keep working for an industry
that was expected to promote junk insurance as real stuff, as real coverage. but at least they have to abide by some new laws and regulations that will make them a bit more, in fact, quite a bit more consumer friendly. >> here's, i guess, my question. do you think the heads of the major insurance companies in this country have internalized into their corporate structure, into the way they're plotting the future for that industry and for those companies the affordable care act and what it means and the fact that it is here to stay? or is there some part of them in the back of their mind that's thinking about the exit door, thinking about pulling the parachute and bailing? >> some of them will bail. and here's why. as long as these policies are profitable, they'll stay in it. this is all about making money. they're in this to make money. when their shareholders decide this is not the best way for them to make money, they will move. they will shift to other
subsidiaries of theirs. and keep in mind these big corporations have many, many divisions. and some of them are more profitable than selling health insurance right now. i think you'll see some of the big companies will sooner or later get out of the business, which will be a good thing. i think they might even cede the territory to the nonprofits again. >> part of the question here, the broad question about this relationship between the white house and the insurance industry, which at this point is incredibly inextricably bound to each other. our computers have to talk to your computers. we're doing a lot of things together in cooperation. one of the questions is, the success of the affordable care act should mean that industry is less profitable, right? >> it will. their profit margins will be squeezed on basic health insurance. and i think that that's why we'll see in my view, in the years to come, and not so many years, a real change in this industry. a change that will be to the benefit of the consumer. so in that regard, the
affordable care act will have a great effect on how we get coverage in this country. >> wendell potter from the center for public integrity, thank you for your time tonight. really appreciate it. coming up --. >> good evening, you're watching news at 5:00, and we begin with a political shocker in the making. >> a political challenger has gone in front of richard conlin. >> it looks like seattle, washington, may have just elected their first socialist to city council in at least a century, and she's she'll be my guest next. road closed? there's a guy...
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scaryerse dirty word in american politics for a long time. lately, not so much. a 2011 pew survey found 18 to 29-year-olds have a more positive view of socialism than they do capitalism. and politicians are learning the word doesn't pack the same punch it once did. a certain one-time community organizer has seen the word used against him pretty much since day one. >> do you think he's a socialist? >> absolutely. >> you do? >> a hard-core socialist. >> i think barack obama is a socialist. >> he said it himself, we need to spread the wealth around. now -- >> is that socialism? >> that's one of the tenants of socialism. >> because barack obama is a socialist. he believes in socialism, in redistributing wealth. >> i will continue fighting to defeat the president's agenda of socialism. >> america re-elected that
socialist. and new york city recently elected bill de blasio mayor by a nearly 50-point margin despite his opponent attacking him as a socialist. now, an actual avowed socialist is on the verge of getting elected to the city council in seattle in an upset over a democrat in office for 15 years. kshama sawant has been nominated. the election results have not been certified. she ran on a platform of raising minimum wage to $15. she argues that capitalism, quote, has failed the 99%. if she holds on, she will be the first socialist elected to the seattle city council in at least a century. kshama sawant joins me now. i guess my first question for you is the word socialist has a very fuzzy meaning, i think, in
the year 2013. how do you understand that word? how should i understand that word when i hear it? >> i think we should think about socialism as a society as a human organization that actually works for all of humanity. and i think the best way to understand socialism is to use capitalism as a counter' point because right now, we have capitalism, and your earlier discussion about health care shows you how defunct it has proven itself in solving regular day to day problems like health care, access, transportation, the poverty rate is going up in the wealthiest country in the world, the united states. socialism is a way to actually make society work for the vast majority of people who do all the work, who provide all the productivity, but capitalism is a problem where because it's an economic system that makes sure all the gains from production are consolidated by a very tiny
elite at the top, and everybody else is losing out. there's a race to the bottom. that is why the occupy movement came up. >> yeah, i think the particular brand of financialized capitalism in america, particularly in the last 40 years, that is absolutely the case for. i guess my question is, what do you see as in concrete terms, what does the alternative look like? for a long time, there were countries that called themselves socialist. those didn't go so well. when you talk about concretizing that idea, what does that mean? what is your platform you're running on? >> the platform we're running on, fighting for a $15 minimum wage in seattle. running on an anti-austerity platform, so we need a progressive taxation in the state of washington. i'm not sure your viewers know we have the most progressive tax system in the nation. the poorest people, the middle-class people pay the most, the highest proportion of
their income in taxes. and we have a problem of affordable housing. there is a crisis of affordable housing in the city. and the city, seattle, is a beautiful city. it's a very wealthy city. but it is fast becoming unaffordable for the vast majority of people. and if you look at the absolutely spectacular results of our campaign, it shows you that this is not a fringe issue. this is something that the vast majority of people are thinking about. and it's not just seattle. look at the dysfunction in washington. 60% of people recently polled showed -- said that the two-party system is not working for them and they need an alternative. >> how did you actually -- so, given the fact that you were running as an alternative, running with the lail socialist, running against a democratic incumbent in a city that is heavily democratic, in which the democratic party has a lot of power and control, what kind of campaign did you run? how did you succeed in apparently unseating this
incumbent? what was the campaign like? >> first of all, you're absolutely right, chris, that this is a democratic party city. the city is controlled by the democratic party establishment, and that's much the same in many other cities around the country, and the most major metropolitan areas, and the way our campaign was different was that we are truly a grassroots campaign. we did not take a dime from big business. we did not seek the endorsements of the democratic party establishment. we ran a truly independent socialist campaign, a pro-worker and pro-environment campaign, and we were able to raise over $ $120,000 purely through grassroots contributions and we mobilized a volunteer base of over 350 volunteers. as we speak, there are new volunteers pouring into our campaign office saying i want to continue helping the effort for $15 an hour. and i think that shows you the power of the grassroots, and really, this is where the secret to social change lies.
>> kshama sawant, poised to become the first socialist city council member in seattle in a century. thank you so much. >> we'll be right back with click free. avo: the volkswagen "sign then drive" sales event is back. which means it's never been easier to get a new passat, awarded j.d. power's most appealing midsize car, two years in a row. and right now you can drive one home for practically just your signature. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's
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vettens statementian in philadelphia being demolished almost ten years ago. while the building is long gone, the people of philadelphia are still paying for that stadium. the good people of philly won't be done paying for the stadium, which is part of the initial $25,000 bond authorize said in 1964, until some time next year. that's because the best hustle going in north america today is not selling junk insurance. it's not even selling crack in toronto.
the best hustle going in north america is shaking down a city for money for your sports team. in the most recent shakedown comes from the atlanta braves. >> we have made the announcement that we intend to build a new stadium on the intersection of i-75 and 285, and our new stadium at that location will be available for opening day 2017. according the the atlanta journal constitution, the deputy chief operating officer for the city of atlanta told the braves during the meeting to negotiate a new stadium lease. it's not as if you could move anywhere. that encounter, which city officials deny, we're told is what prompted the outreach to nearby cobb county. while most teams are building stadiums inside city limits, they're choosing a predominantly white suburb over the city. they said the solution is all about moving cars in and around cobb from surrounding counties
from the north and east where most braves fans travel and not moving people into cobb from rail by atlanta. catch his drift. guess what people in and around cobb county? here's where your tax dollars are going to go. the new ballpark will cost a total of $672 million. the atlanta braves will be responsible for $372 million. all the residents of cobb county will be responsible for $300 million plus interest, which is a hefty chunk of change for a city with an $86 million budget deficit that will reportedly lead to the loss of 182 teachers. like i said, the best hustle going. joining me now is goldie taylor, contributor to msnbc. david o'brien, reporter for the atlanta journal constitution, and david zi rn, my colleague at the nation where he is sports editor. david o'brien, how did this whole thing go down, and did it take people by surprise? >> oh, it took everyone by surprise. in this day and age, it was miraculous they were able to
keep it secret as well as they did, until literally it was announced that morning. last week on monday. you know, there were only, from what i was told, there were only five or six people in the braves organization that were a part, privy to the negotiations, and fewer than that in cobb county. so they kept it close to the breast, close to the chest, and they never -- it never got out. they didn't take it to the pa populous. they didn't open it up for debate. >> goldie, what has reaction in atlanta been? >> the reaction has been fairly mixed. there's angst on behalf of the atlanta residents who looked forward to keeping the stadium right here, downtown. there's some angst among cobb county redsdants and people on the north end of the perimeter in terms of traffic and transportation issues that already exist at that corner, at that juncture. there are some concerns on both sides of the table in terms of
financing, in terms of transportation and other issues, but there's also excitement among the populous that they are indeed getting a new stadium. atlanta loves new things. i'm with the mayor on this. >> that's part of the problem. that's exactly why the hustle works so well. is because people love new stuff. that is part of the problem. >> absolutely. >> i want tatalk about why the hustle works and whether we're ever going to see the end of this particular hustle with dave and the rest of you right after we take this break. life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis
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debt, we would have bonded more than we have in all of our cash reserves. >> atlanta mayor kassim read explaining why he refused to be shaken down by the atlanta braves organization and cough money up to keep them in the city of atlanta. we're here. dave, why does this hustle work? it's one of these things where you can't find a single economist professor on the right or left to support it. it shows it reduces income. there's no good idealogical practical argument for this, yet it happens time and time again. >> it's because politicians are bought off and the people in charge are the very 1%. the owners of the atlanta braves are called liberty media. they're worth $26 billion. that means they could find cash between the cushions of their executive couch and pay for a new stadium. this does not work. every economist you talk to, i used to argue this with people
on sports radio. you can't find someone to debate this with anymore because it's like debating whether the earth is flat or the sky is green. you go through a tour of the heartland of the country, cleveland, milwaukee, detroit, and what you see in place after place are these gleaming stadiums and the death of industrial jobs. it connects to why your previous guest, kashama suwant oza socialist was able to be elected to the city council of seattle. they were sold the cool-ate, and they got low-income jobs and gentrification. >> and they lost their team after all that. i want to asks about the poli c politics of this, also. the mayor refused to be shook down, essentially. and i'm curious how this is playing right now politically. like what -- is he facing, because dave just said, will, you know, this is about the 1%, which i think is partly true. also, there's a lot of people who seem to want to pay for new stadiums, despite the fact that
i can't imagine why. >> well, it should be noted that kassim reed just was part -- was trumping the atlanta falcons' push for a new stadium, which is going to cost at least $1.2 billion. that price tag is rising all the time. and they have allocated $200 million of tax money for that. so it's not as if he's standing up against the man here. you know, and refusing to contribute. >> that falcons stadium is one of the biggest boondoggles going in the stadium hustle anywhere, right, goldie? >> it's also a very different deal, and where those revenues are coming from, and what would have happened with the braves is taxpayers would have had to foot for the bill rather than play fr inf infrastructure. the deal with the falcons is done in a different way. this put them together. the fact of the matter is the sprawl that's happening in atlanta. atlanta really is more than just a city. it's a ten-country metro area. the notion that this stadium is moving out of atlanta is a bit of a misnomer.
it's going about 10 or 12 miles to the north. the problem is you're leaving a hole in downtown atlanta. what the mayor has said is he's going to turn this into an opportunity. he's going to develop that area so he can bring middle-income people back into the center of the city. i think this is a challenge and also an opportunity. >> there's some subtext. can get what you're saying and i have been to atlanta a number of times. you know, the sort of stark dividing line between what is in the city and what is out of the city, it doesn't quite apply in this case. it does seem to me, and maybe i'm reading into this something that isn't there. there's a little bit of a racial subtext to me, moving to a city -- >> dave, make the case that there is. and goldie, i'll let you say there isn't. >> the area they're moving to is marietta, which is fairly diverse. >> this is the first time in 40 years a stadium has moved from the city to the suburbs. i mean, seriously, it doesn't take bull conner to figure out the messagess here.
>> part of the problem here, goldie, is they also released a map showing that most ticket holders come from the suburbs. >> let me tell you something about how this all works. you know, to get into major league baseball, major league baseball is increasingly more brown. they're recruiting more and more hispanic players. you're going to get fewer black people in the stands if we're not on the field. there's no willie mays, no terry pendleton out there, so the fans are going to reflect what they see on the field. you have more and more whites buying tickets, and yes, the baseball team went there. i think, you know, to say this is a black/white issue, really goes to the heart of what major league baseball is and what it's becoming. >> that's a great point. >> that's not particularly accurate when it comes to the braves. they have an all-black outfield with the upton brothers and jason heyward. they have -- you know, what we're forgetting here is that the city -- >> that is true. >> i also know the braves are
trying to get more and more black audiences. >> the city has developed the area around turner field in the last 18, 19 years since the olympics happened. if they had developed the area, the team would probably not be moving. there's nothing there. >> i have walk eed around that area and it is kind of shocking. it's sort of the husk remnants of the olympics. >> tell me about it, i live there. >> that's all for this evening. the "rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening. >> happy friday. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. the state of illinois is a bright, bright, bright blue state. right? and every one of the previous six presidential elections going back to 1992, illinois voted handily for the democratic candidate for president. and last year's presidential election, president obama won in his home state of illinois by 17 points. and that does not mean there are no republican areas and no republican members of congress in illinois. there are plenty of conservative part