Skip to main content

William Barr
  Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo  FOX News  June 21, 2020 7:00am-8:00am PDT

7:00 am
father's day sins you committed. happy father's day to my dad as well. i want to say happy father's day to my brother, phil, happy father's day to everyone. go to church. you know your dad would want you to. have a great sunday. ♪ >> maria: good sunday morning, everyone. welcome, thank you so much for joining us. happy father's day to all of the wonderful dads out there. i'm maria bartiromo. straight ahead right here on sunday morning futures, my exclusive interview with u.s. attorney general bill barr as president trump returns to the campaign trail last night, sharing a message of community and resilience in tulsa, oklahoma, telling supporters, quote, the silent majority is stronger than ever. the attorney general sharing his concerns over censorship and mail-in ballots ahead of the 2020 election, sitting down with me on friday, just hours before his controversial announcement that the federal pro prosecutorr the southern district of new york, jeffrey berman would resign from his post. president trump ultimately firing the man hat taken
7:01 am
prosecutor yesterday after he refused to voluntarily step down. ag barr and his relationship with the president and more as we look ahead on sunday morning futures. ♪ fallout today after violence erupt inned the seattle protest zone, largely abandoned by police. one person was shot and killed on saturday, another critically injured. we begin my exclusive interview with attorney general william barr with this and the challenges that now face police across america. what a moment we're living in right now. we've got a once vibrant town in seattle, residential and business town being taken over. now called the capitol hill organized protest or chop or chaz, capitol hill autonomous zone. in minneapolis, demonstrators hurling bricks at cops and setting buildings on fire and
7:02 am
peaceful and not so peaceful protests as a result of the death of george floyd. as the number one law enforcement individual in the country, what are you going to do to bring law and order back? >> well, all these situations really involve two dimensions of the rule of law. one is the individual case that's precipitated the demonstrations and so forth. it's the job of the department of justice to mete out justice fairly and even-handedly in that particular case and not be influenced by the mob. the second aspect is these demonstrations, which are fine. protests and demonstrations are fine. when they become mob violence, we need to restore order. we can't be ruled by mobs. very to be ruled by the legal process. in this particular situation, there's obviously legitimate demonstrators out there raising concerns about police abuse. but a lot of these
7:03 am
demonstrations have been hijacked by essentially a anarchistic groups and professional agitators who are in it for the violence and the confrontation. so i do make a distinction between legitimate peaceful demonstrators and these violent agitators who are involved throughout the country. >> maria: well, they took over an area in seattle and they're guarding it with guns. they tried to do it in portland as well. does the federal government have a responsibility to protect citizens of our country if the cities and states won't do it? because people's property have been damaged. there are people who don't want this autonomous area in seattle around their home. >> right. well, in the first instance, it's the responsibility obviously of the local officials and then the state officials to protect the rights of their citizens. at the end of the day, the federal government does have a responsibility to make sure that citizens are not deprived of
7:04 am
their federal rates. >> maria: so will you challenge that autonomous city? will you sue the mayor? what can you do? >> well, i don't want to get into specifics but we're obviously keeping an eye on it and as the president said in due course we may have to do something about it. but we can't let it go on indefinitely. >> maria: it's also sparked calls to defund the police. ilhan omar said that the minneapolis police department is, quote, rotten to the root. what is the impact of this pushback on law enforcement? are you worried about resignations, the cops walking off the job? >> yes. i mean, even before this happened i was speaking out about how the job of being a policeman in the united states these days is the toughest job in the united states. they're under a lot of pressure. i was concerned even before these pressures that we were having difficulty maintain the levels of police we need in our cities, retaining them. and obviously this environment where they're demonized will
7:05 am
deter a lot of people from continuing to serve as police and also i'm concerned of the effect that they may pull back some of their enforcement activities and not take those risks so i think it could lead as it's led in other situations to an actual increase in violent crime and more deaths. you know, i understand an event like minneapolis and why it struck such a cord in the african-american community. there has been long-standing distrust of law enforcement and that partly comes out of the fact that for much of our history our laws were explicitly discriminatory. and for the past few decades, we've been reforming our of institutions to make sure they reflect our values and the police have been engaged in than we shouldn't let this incident and the actions of a bad few obscure the fact that the police made a lot of progress. instances of the shooting of
7:06 am
black unarmed males has been dropping. it was 38 five years ago, last year it was 10. 10 in the nation. and six of those were involved in attacking the police officer at the time they were shot. so while any death is too many, the fact is that in proportion, it's relatively small. i mean, there are 8,000 -- roughly 8,000 homicides of african-americans in our country every year. 8,000. 10 last year were due to force by -- shooting an unarmed black male. we have to keep that in perspective. we also have to keep in perspective that the police forces are much more diverse, the leadership of the police is much more diverse. they are committed to reform. community policing has taken hold around the country. and that reform has to continue and what we have to do is bring out of these episodes, minneapolis, something that's
7:07 am
good and that is it will galvanize the public will to continue the process of reform. it has to be fair reform to the police. >> maria: should the police have qualified immunity? >> yes, i thin generally in oury immunity used to be absolute. they dropped it down to qualified to permit some lawsuits in egregious cases. without qualified immunity i think most people would not take the job as a police officer. so we would essentially be doing away from our police department -- away with our police department. >> maria: what are the implications of collective barge anybody, there was an op ed in the journal, talking about the police unions and how it's getting in the way of actual reform. >> i think it largely depends on the unions and it's hard to generalize. but i do think that police unions have an important role to play and i do think that police management has to be able to get rid of bad apples. but by the same tokeen, i think
7:08 am
there has to be due process. one of the things that's bothered -- democratic senator once used the expression, i thought it was actually a good one, that being the attorney general is like being the sheriff of one of these old western movies when the mob shows up at the jailhouse door, you're standing in front of the jail and sometimes that mob wants to hang the person, and sometimes they want to spring the person. and it's the job of the attorney general not to be influenced by the mob but try to do justice in that particular case and i think police are at risk sometimes when some event like this happens of -- or we have to make special effort to make sure that they get due process. and the unions do play a role in that. >> maria: coming up, more of my exclusive interview with attorney general william barr, whether he thinks racism is systemic in america and his reaction to the latest claims of anti-conservative bias among
7:09 am
technology companies, the doj's proposal on social media coming up next. massmutual healthbridge is a free life insurance program just for healthcare workers fighting covid-19. learn more at ♪ for people with heart failure taking entresto, it may lead to a world of possibilities. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems,
7:10 am
or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto.
7:11 am
7:12 am
>> maria: welcome back. the police officer who shot rayshard brooks in atlanta is charged with felony murder along with 10 of other crime crimes. some say the prosecutor moved too fast. i asked the attorney general what he thinks about that case and also about anti-conservative bias among our top social media companies. there is a lot of activity in atlanta right now because of the charges against the officer who killed rayshard brooks. we saw the video of brooks grabbing the officer's taser, using the taser against him. the officer's being charged with felony murder. he could face execution. did that case merit murder charges or is that officer being
7:13 am
lumped in with the upset over george floyd? >> well, because i might be called upon as attorney general to pass judgment on that case, under civil rights laws, i don't want to get into the specifics of it. but i certainly would have liked to have seen the georgia bureau of investigation complete their investigation before charges were brought. also, the use of a grand jury. the grand jury process pro sides some protection to have citizens in a group decide that there's been a crime committed and there was no grand jury used in this case. i think it's important to go through the right processes before charging someone. i also think there was fundamental difference obviously between what happened in atlanta and what happened in minneapolis. essentially kneeling on someone's neck for almost nine minutes who was already incapacitated. >> maria: very upsetting stories. do you think that there is systemic racism in this country? >> no, i don't think there's
7:14 am
systemic -- well, i do think there's racism in the country. now, systemic in terms of the law enforcement and the police agencies, i don't think there is systemic law enforcement in those agencies. i think there may be individuals and there are individuals who may have bias and sometimes that may emerge and be map fested in some act -- manifested in some act but i don't think it's systemic. >> maria: i ask because there's bad cops and there's a system that maybe has things that are built into it that should be looked at, for example, if a white kid gets caught under age drinking, the parents are going to do anything they can to avoid that conviction on the kid's record that will follow him and he'll carry the rest of his life. so they'll do diversion program, diversion program. are we offering the same diversion programs to blacks and whites? >> in some jurisdictions, yes. in some, probably not as much as we should. as i said, this is a process of reforming our institutions,
7:15 am
looking for inequities and making sure we address them. >> maria: let me move on to freedom of speech on what just took place. the doj planning to roll back the legal protections, the monopoly legal protections that technology companies enjoy. what prompted this? >> so the basic idea is that if you're acting as essentially a bulletin board and open to all comers and third parties can post their content on their website and you're not being selective about it, it's open to all comers, you shouldn't be deemed a publisher. we want to encourage that kind of forum for third party views. that ran into problems because we wanted to encourage during the early days of the internet, we wanted to encourage platforms to take off obscene material or harassing material or other kinds of offensive material like that. what we said was in the law, section 230, if you take that down, that doesn't make you a
7:16 am
publisher. if you take down objectionable material like that. unfortunately, they started taking down viewpoints and started really being selective and based on whether they agreed with the vie pont or not -- viewpoint or not taking it down. and that should make them a publisher. they said under section 230 they weren't. that's one of the problems arising under section 230. we proposed a change to address that. what we said is you can take down stuff that is unlawful and you can take down stuff that's not -- does not accord with your terms of service but you have to make your terms of service clear. have you to have a reasonably based reason for taking down the particular content and show that it violated your terms of service and you need to give someone notice and process whereby they can dispute that. >> maria: google did select federalist, zero hedge and tried to cut off their advertising
7:17 am
revenue. senator tom cotton also told me that he got a call from someone at twitter who said take down your tweet immediately about the police needing the military to back them up. otherwise, we're deleting your account entirely. >> right. there's something very disturbing about what's going on. to some extent, there was a bait and switch over the past couple decades. these companies held themselves out as open to all comers. that's how they built up all their membership and networks, saying, you know, we have a wide variety of views. people can come in and post their views and their positions and their statements. and that's what led to people joining it and get the strong market position they have. then they switched. now they're being more selective and they're starting to censor different viewpoints. but you have this concentration of these very large companies that had that kind of influence on the sharing of information and viewpoints in our society.
7:18 am
and that is a fundamental problem because our republic was founded on the idea and whole rational was that there would be a lot of diversity of voices and it would be hard for someone to to be able to galvanize a big faction in the united states that could dominate politically and oppress a minority. yet now we have with the internet and with these big concentrations of power the ability to do just that, to quickly galvanize people's views because they're only presenting one viewpoint and they can push the public in a particular direction very quickly and our whole constitution and system was based on not having that and having a wide diversity of voices. so one way this can be addressed is through the anti-trust laws and challenging companies that engage in monopolies. >> maria: coming up, election
7:19 am
2020, the issues that concern ag bill barr the most, he will fill us in when my exclusive interview continues. stay with us. stock slices. for as little as $5, now anyone can own companies in the s&p 500, even if their shares cost more. at $5 a slice, you could own ten companies for $50 instead of paying thousands. all commission free online. schwab stock slices: an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. schwab. own your tomorrow. as someone with hearing loss i know what a confusing and frustrating experience getting hearing aids can be. that's why i founded lively. affordable, high-quality hearing aids with all of the features you need, and none of the hassle. i use lively hearing aids and it's been wonderful. it's so light and so small
7:20 am
but it's a fraction of the cost of the other devices. they cost thousands less. it's insanely user friendly. you take the hearing test online, the doctor programs in the settings. you don't even need to go into an office. they're delivered to your door in a few days and you're up and running in no time. it connects via bluetooth to my phone. you can stream music and you can answer phone calls. the audiologist was so incredible she's full of all kinds of little helpful hints i love it. they're a game changer for me. i feel like i can take on anything. it feels great to be in control of my hearing. better hearing has never been this easy. try lively risk-free for 100 days. visit and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance. because it's the right thing to do. we're also giving payment relief options to eligible members so they can take care of things like groceries before they worry about their insurance
7:21 am
or credit card bills. right now is the time to take care of what matters most. like we've done together, so many times before. discover all the ways we're helping members at
7:22 am
>> maria: welcome back. as the president returns to campaigning last night, we are now learning that the republicans have raised over $816 million so far for the 2020 election. may was a big month. the attorney general spoke with me about the november election including his concerns about voter fraud. devin nunes says there is not a more important issue than this issue. the american people are being censored, information flowing to the american people is being censored. are you worried about this going into the election.
7:23 am
>> i'm worried about censor censorship. i'm worried about a lot of things. one, the censorship of robust debate. i'm worried about undermining the public confidence and integrity of the elections. the thing we have going for us, especially with intense division in the country, is we have peaceful transfers of power and the way of resolving it is to have an election. when governments, state governments start adopting these practices like mail-in ballots that open the floodgates of potential fraud, then people's confidence in the outcome of the election is going to be undermined. and that could take the country to a very dark place if we lose confidence in the outcomes of our elections. so that, the censorship, -- the censorship has a number of effects. it also -- free speech, being able to get your viewpoint out is a release. it takes some of the pressure
7:24 am
ought. i--out. if people are prevented from expressing their views that's when you start getting extremism. the more ventilating of viewpoints we have, the healthier it is for our country. >> maria: there's a big discussion about mail-in voting. hillary clinton said it's fine, it's fair. >> it absolutely opens the floodgate for fraud. a lot of states have you signing the outside of the envelope so the person who opens the envelope will know how people voted. there's no -- right now, a foreign country could print up tens of thousands of counterfeit ballots and be very hard for us to detect which was the right and which was the wrong ballot. i think it can -- it can upset and undercut the confidence in the integrity of our elections. if anything, we should tighten them up right now.
7:25 am
>> maria: senator holly has a bill to give americans the right to sue technology companies like facebook, google, twitter, if they enforce terms unfairly. should people have the right to sue these companies? >> i think there should be more control on how they use data, how they use personal data, and give consumers the right to sue the companies if it's used improperly and not according to the terms of service or they don't fully disclose, they're not transparent about it. >> maria: i know that you do not pursue this position and in your confirmation hearing you said you ultimately came back to restore confidence in the system. so i want to ask you how we do that. because we are deeply divided in this country. we know that and it does look like there are two standards of justice. you go back to 2016 and there were two investigations going on, one into hillary clinton's. mail use and one into donald trump and collusion with russia. we know officially there was no collusion. with the hillary clinton investigation, jim comey was told by your predecessor,
7:26 am
loretta lynch, to call it a matter, not an investigation. bill clinton met loretta lynch on a tarmac three days before hillary was to talk to the fbi. how do you explain that to someone who wants to believe there's fairness in this country. >> i do believe there were two standards of justice during a period of time toward the end of the obama administration. and all i can do about it is apply one standard of justice, the right standard of justice and make sure we apply it to everything equally -- everybody equally. that's what i'm trying to do. >> maria: are you looking again, then, at what took place with the hillary clinton investigation? >> i don't want to get into any particular investigation right now. >> maria: why did the doj charge general michael flynn with false statements yet did not charge jim comey and andrew mccabe with the same charge? >> again, all i can say -- again, i don't want to discuss the details of any particular
7:27 am
case but -- criminal case -- but all i can say is that we are trying to apply the same standard to everybody. and as you know, we have sought to dismiss the charges against general flynn. >> maria: what do you make of what judge sullivan is doing? he's pushing back on that, obviously. >> well, as i've said, you know, we disadegre disagree wits doing. we think the law is clear that it is within the discretion of the executive, it's the executive branch's function and the attorney general's function to make charging decisions and to determine whether to continue on a case and the judge is supposed to be a neutral judge on the case, not the -- not exercise the prosecutor's function. so we're hopeful that the case will be dismissed. we think that's what the law requires. >> maria: much more with attorney general bill barr coming up including the very latest update on u.s. attorney john durham's investigation into the russia probe, how the pandemic may have slowed
7:28 am
durham's progress as he looks into the origins of the russia probe, he'll give us details on when we could expect some developments, next. stay with us. the tempur-pedic breeze° makes because the tempur-breeze° transfers heat away from your body. so you feel cool... night after night. during the tempur-pedic summer of sleep, save $500 on all tempur-breeze mattresses.
7:29 am
7:30 am
7:31 am
we hope you find these digital solutions helpful to bank from almost anywhere. deposit a check with your phone or tablet. check balances, pay bills, and more. send money to people you know and trust with zelle. explore all you can do with our digital tools from almost anywhere. pnc bank. >> maria: welcome back. u.s. attorney john durham's investigation into the origins of the russia probe continues as we learn information about efforts to unmask individuals during the final vehicles of the obama administration. i asked attorney general william barr about the status of the
7:32 am
investigation, whether there is criminal misconduct. we're waiting on john durham's investigation, a criminal investigation. what bearing does the election have on that? i haven't heard any democrats raise any upset over the fact that wiretapping of an american citizen was illegal, an fbi agent changed evidence, changed a document. a whole host of issues. so am i to believe that if we don't get the results of the john durham investigation before the election and donald trump loses, we won't hear another word about this? >> first, i agree with you, it's been stunning that all we've gotten from the mainstream media is sort of bovine silence in the face of the complete collapse of the so-called russiagate scandal which they did all they could to sensationalize and drive and it's like not even whoops, they're just onto the next false
7:33 am
scandal. so that has been surprising to me, that people aren't concerned about civil liberties and the integrity of our governmental process. in terms of the future of durham's investigation, he's pressing ahead as hard as he can and i expect that we will have some developments, hopefully before the end of the summer, but as i said, his investigation will continue. it's not going to stop because of the election. what happens after the election may depend on who wins the election. >> maria: has he been delayed because of the covid-19 pandemic? >> there has been delay because of the pandemic, yes, there has. >> maria: and inability to interview people? >> yes. not an inability but distinct slowing down of that process. >> maria: because you can't gather a grand jury? >> well, i don't want to suggest there has been or is a grand jury but it is a fact that there
7:34 am
have not been grand juries in virtually all districts for a long period of time and also people had been reluctant to travel for interviews and things like that. so it has slowed things down. but there's -- he's been working where he can on other matters that aren't affected by the pandemic but there has been an effect. >> maria: a source said to me a couple years ago, speaking of the russia collusion story, that this was the closest the united states ever game to a coup to take down a president since the assassination of lincoln. is that an appropriate statement? >> in this sense, i think it is the closest we have come to an organized effort to push a president out of office. >> maria: and it continues. >> you know, i'm not reaching a judgment as to what the motivations there were. >> maria: can you tell us anything about how this all started? this is not just an american citizen, this was a man running for president and this was a person who got elected to become the president. and the fbi thought it was a
7:35 am
good idea to launch an investigation into donald trump and potential collusion. why? >> you know, i guess i don't want to talk about that, some of it may become evident as more facts are disclosed. but i think there is probably a range of motives for different people. >> maria: but is there any evidence that in fact it was appropriate to launch an investigation other than a conversation in a bar. i know that george papadopoulos had a conversation in a bar. >> that is the official version of what happened, that comment in a london wine bar was what the basis really was for going forward. and i've said that i thought that that was a very slender read to get law enforcement intelligence agencies involved in investigating the campaign of one's political opponent. >> maria: lindsey graham told us that four fbi case agents talked to the russian subsource. in other words, the person who
7:36 am
compiled some of the information in the dossier. and that subsource told those agents that it was just bar talk, that it wasn't true, that we didn't really buy it anyway. did those case agents tell their superiors that? >> again, i don't want to get into the details because those are the kinds of things we're looking at, but that is laid out to some extent in the ig's report, that in january 2017 and in march 2017 they talked to the primary subsource who was the sole conduit for this information that made up the dossier. and as i've said, the dossier pretty much collapsed at that point. and yet they continued to use it as a basis for pursuing this counter intelligence investigation. >> maria: so does it sound like jim comey and andrew mccabe knew that the dossier had collapsed in january of 2017? >> i don't want to discuss that aspect of it. >> maria: okay. what about the leaks?
7:37 am
senator ron johnson is investigating the transition from the obama administration to the trump administration and he told us that in the first 126 days, there were 125 leaks. and compare that to obama's 126 days, there were eight leaks. bush, there were nine leaks. what's the situation with the leak investigation? do you expect that we will see indictments for those who leaked classified information? is that a felony? >> leaking national defense information, unauthorized disclosure of that information is a felony. i have tried to strengthen our efforts to investigate leaks. they're very difficult to investigate. especially where a lot of people had access to the information. and because at the end of the day you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a particular person who did it and also because the news organizations don't cooperate in those investigations, obviously.
7:38 am
but we are pursuing leaks aggressively where we think there's a realistic possibility that we could find out who it is. so we have a lot of leak investigations underway. and if we get the evidence that's necessary, we'll prosecute them. >> maria: so i know that the fbi said that they started a counter intelligence investigation into the trump campaign in july of 2016. but there's a lot of activity before that and in april of 2016 people arranged for george papadopoulos to meet with joseph mifsud. has joseph mifsud worked with western intelligence before? >> i can't get into that. >> maria: i ask because we talked about that bar conversation between papadopoulos and someone else and you have to wonder was that conversation organic or was that conversation and the content of what papadopoulos said planted on him? >> i understand why people -- why it is important to try to
7:39 am
determine whether there was any activity before july, before the papadopoulos wine bar conversation. i understand that. and so people are looking at that. it's significant also that the dossier was initiated before july. >> maria: rick grinnell calls the transition period key. what can you tell us about the transition period that we need to understand better? >> well, it depends on what the motivations were and why they were looking at it but it is -- i would say it's unusual for an outgoing administration, high level officials to be unmasking very much in the days they're preparing to leave office. makes you wonder what they were doing. >> maria: how do these senate testimonies help the doj? >> well, they're not -- the doj and congress have separate roles to play. doj, we are looking at whether or not there's been any criminal activity and investigating and i
7:40 am
think congress is interested in sort of finding out what happened and disclosing it to the public. so there are different functions that are being performed. i don't think that those are conducted to help the doj. we do our own investigations. >> maria: coming up, ag barr reacts to john bolton, the national -- the former national security advisor and the release of his member mother. that's come -- member other. memoir. that's coming up next. stay with us. stock slices. for as little as $5, now anyone can own companies in the s&p 500, even if their shares cost more. at $5 a slice, you could own ten companies for $50 instead of paying thousands. all commission free online. schwab stock slices: an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. schwab.
7:41 am
own your tomorrow. schwab. (announcer) improve your health, and strengthen your immunity., starvation dieting, processed foods, shakes, and diet gimmicks have made us heavier and sicker. the solution for losing weight the right way is golo. we help transform your body and change your lifestyle, so you can lose weight and get healthier. over 20,000 people of all ages, and entire families, switch to golo every week, because golo works. golo is a unique approach to weight loss
7:42 am
that targets insulin resistance and body fat. insulin resistance makes it easy to gain weight and harder to lose it. golo is a patented system that uses natural plants and minerals, and sound nutrition to help your body convert fat to energy faster. so you'll lose weight while improving your health and immunity. join over 1 million people who found golo, a smarter way to lose weight. let golo help you lose weight and reach your health goals quickly. head to that's
7:43 am
>> maria: welcome back. a federal judge ruling yesterday that john bolton's memoir about his experience in the trump white house can be released on schedule after the doj sued to block its publication. i spoke with ag barr before the decision came out. here's what he said about bolton's book. what about john bolton, the
7:44 am
doj's breach of contract suit against the former national security advisor? is it too late now to push back? >> i don't think it's too late because what we're asking is for him to complete the process before the book is published, complete the process of taking out classified material. and in our view, there remains very highly classified material in the book. still. and we would like him to address that and so under the law we are bringing a civil action to enforce his agreement that he would do that before publishing. the remedy if he doesn't complete it is that he forfeits any money from that book to the government. >> maria: how did you get involved? did the president ask you to get involved in this? >> no, actually he didn't. this would have been in the normal course. the process is run through the national security council, called prepublication review for any book.
7:45 am
and as that wasn't completed, the national security council contacted us. so that's initially how the doj got involved. >> maria: how often do you speak to the president? >> i would say very regularly. [ laughter ] >> maria: are you doing his bidding? >> i'm enforcing the law and as i said when i was confirmed, anything within the four walls of the department of justice, any matter is going to be handled strictly on the laws, the law and the facts. it's going to be reflecting our independent judgment of what the law requires. >> maria: let me move on to china. this is a subject that our of audience cares about very much and the doj has been efforting to crack down on chinese espionage. can you tell me a bit about what the ccp is doing? i know there's been a real rethinking of the relationship between the united states and china. >> the way i look at is, this is fundamental challenge to the united states. since the late 19th century,
7:46 am
our opportunity and our growth, our prosperity as a country has come from our technological leadership. we've been the technological leader of the world. in the last decade or so, china has been putting on a great push to supplant us explicitly. they want to be the leader in all the future technologies that are going to to dominate the economy. so what's at stake is the economic opportunity of our children and our grandchildren. whether we can continue to be the technological leader of the world. the chinese have embarked on a very aggressive program during this time of stealing and cheating in order to overtake us. they've stolen our intellectual property. when they steal our secrets about future technology, they're stealing the future of the american people. if they start leading in some of these fundamental foundational technologies like 5g which will
7:47 am
be the platform of much of our future manufacturing in the united states, they will have tremendous leverage over the united states. if all our industrial practices and manufacturing practices are built on a platform they dominate, they will have ultimate leverage over the west. so i think this is a competition for the future. they haven't been competing fairly and the president has confronted this when no one else has and the american business community has been a big part of the problem because they're willing, ultimately many of them, to sacrifice the long-term viability of their companies for short-term profit. so they can get their stock options and move into the gulf resort. that's what's driving some of this. they're not taking the long-term view and the national view of maintaining the american strength. >> maria: i was talking with one money manager the other day and he said, look, maria, i'm not going to call good guys and bad
7:48 am
guys. it's not my role to call out good guys and bad guys. so, yeah, the growth is in china and that's where i want to invest. >> well, you know what, we're not speaking german today because the american business in the past didn't think that way. they stood with the united states. and all the privileges and the benefits and the stability and the rule of law and the ability to profit as they do, both as companies and individuals, comes from the strength of this country. >> maria: so shoul it be a law f you are working under a grant, a united states grant, at a university, you're not allowed to take money from the chinese communist party? >> we are clearly cracking down on researchers and others that are sent over here to get involved in our key technological programs. by the way, this is not just weapon systems. this is agriculture. this is medicine. this is robotics. this is artificial intelligence
7:49 am
and so forth. it's the whole gamut of important technologies going forward. >> maria: so are they seeking out people like the chairman of the chemistry department at harvard to try to get those people to work with them? are they seeking people out? >> chinese efforts run the gamut from more traditional espionage of recruiting people to work for them, explicitly, to cultivating relationships that then they are able to use and the people frequently are not completely atune to the fact that they are being used. as essentially stooges for the chinese. so it runs the gamut of things. sometimes some of these programs -- high-sounding programs are used to the advantage of the chinese. so the american business community, we need their understanding of the nature of the problem right now. >> maria: coming up, we have breaking news about huawei, attorney general bill barr as
7:50 am
china seeks to expand its influence on the global economy. how congress could get involved to ramp up pressure on huawei and the communist party. that's next. - i'm jeff anderson.
7:51 am
for 37 years we have been fighting for survivors of child sex abuse. even in these uniquely challenging times
7:52 am
we're still fighting with dedication and devotion. california law gives survivors a chance to take legal action, but only for a limited time. if you were sexually abused by a priest, scout leader, coach or teacher contact us confidentially today. it's time.
7:53 am
>> maria: breaking news, i have learned that the senate is considering a proposal for the u.s. government to acquire a minority stake in telecom companies nokia and erickson. in a senate briefing the proposal was made for a $10 billion acquisition of erickson and nokia with the u.s. representing 2 to $3 billion. i asked the ag about that. so what about the huawei threat? we know that there are back doors in some cases where data in the huawei infrastructure goes back to the chinese communist party. we talked about that a lot. is that true? >> yes. >> maria: would the u.s. consider acquiring -- >> i would say there's certainly
7:54 am
the capacity to do that i and a very high risk of that. >> maria: would the u.s. consider acquiring erickson and nokia to send a message to the world that if you use erickson and nokia you've got the backing of the united states government, as an alternative to huawei. >> i gave a speech a while back saying that the two companies best position to compete with huawei are erickson and nokia. but unlike huawei -- huawei has the backing of the chinese government and all the chinese government money. just to give you an example, for 5g network facilities, the total global addressable market is probably around 90 billion and the chinese government set up a fund of over 100 billion to subsidize it. so they can go to countries and say we'll put this in cash-free, very cheap money.
7:55 am
so that's what we're competing against with huawei. and companies like erickson and nokia are the strongest western competitors in this sector and i gave a speech saying that ultimately the west has to rally around these companies. whether that means private ownership or state involvement. >> maria: so you would be okay taking a stake even if it's a minority stake in these companies to offset the threat of huawei then? >> that's not a decision for the justice department. i do think that the west has to pick a horse or horses. >> maria: is china using this covid-19 pandemic to gain leverage and gain territory? we know that the ccp is over-reaching in hong kong and militaryizing the south china sea. >> i'm concerned that they might think that we are
7:56 am
sufficiently distracted by covid that we won't be able to respond and i'm concerned they may think the current environment is one in which they can push the envelope somewhat and take advantage of it. >> maria: what's most important in terms of protecting u.s. national security? >> first i think protecting american technological leadership, as i've discussed. and i would also say thwarting their espionage and influence activities are the most important things we can do. and also through international partners, press the chinese to play by the rules, play by the rules of the road, which they haven't done. it's too bad one of the great tragedies i think -- the chinese people are a great people, great history, very indu industrious d able and the hope was bringing
7:57 am
them into the world system, the economic system, there would be a liberalization of their government but i think the communist party still has an iron grip on that country and i think that's unfortunate. >> maria: thank you.
7:58 am
7:59 am
these are extraordinary times, and we want to thank the extraordinary people in the healthcare community, working to care for all of us. at novartis, we promise to do our part. as always, we're doing everything we can to help keep cosentyx accessible and affordable. if you have any questions at all, call us, email us, visit us online.
8:00 am
we're here to help support you when you need us. take care, and be well. to learn more, call one eight four four cosentyx or visit howie: this is media buzz, i'm howard kurtz, we will get to the oklahoma rally shortly. one brief section in bolton book, president trump reportedly to have said that journalists should have been jailed to reveal forces, these people should be executed, they are scum bags, let me say i'm strongly against execution of journalists, former national security adviser charges that one-time boss did pressure ukraine as democrats charge during impeachment and asked chinese president xi to help him