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tv   DW News - News  Deutsche Welle  February 25, 2022 2:00pm-2:31pm CET

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city, all people got here is from the news as well because life in the city is very, very quiet. jumps like those people are staying home all standing to, to go to the showers and i've heard that people keep everything that they need and they have to rush out very close to their body. the order of the front door to getting that kind of information from international broadcasters. what is going through your had as a resident of care? and we just arrived an hour ago. we've come from don bus, we left on bus last night very urgently because we we had left tron. yes. got it. which is only for coloma just from the front line. and people had urged just and pushed us to get it out of the city before just surrounded. then we had gone to the house and had hoped to stay there quiet and calm night. but then the situation deteriorated and everybody told us we should get out as well. the thing is,
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it's not easy to get out of done. must right now because the roads are blocked. the ukrainian government has, has mobilized all young men between 18 and 60 they are not supposed to leave. so they are checkpoints on the streets to make sure the young men don't leave. and then the call to train, which supposedly is one of the last trend, other off of the done best region and came to p up this morning, was a long ride to 14 hours or something like that. and it was full of people playing, having their most necessary things. and actually, to me, it looks kind of like a situation i know from movies from 1945. so i think it's fair to say then that the situation in a dumbass is perhaps more extreme, but you do see people making these preparations and fleeing from care what. how would you compare the 2 areas at this moment?
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oh, and there are people at the train station, hundreds and hundreds of people with can get out because daniel janes anymore, we saw long, long queues on the out on, on the highways for people to trying to get out. and i would say it's very, it's very different. it was in p if people want to get out unless you still have a lot of people who were welcoming that the russians are coming. and then on the other hand side, it was what was much more dangerous because yelling was much close as far as i can see it now we don't know what to expect this afternoon over on the half of the night. so i think those areas are not very safe anymore. so for those who are trying to get out of the country and for those who are trying to actually leave ukraine, what are the pathways available to them? where are they going? principally? well, most still tried to figure that out in the v that we had asked, they said they want to go to poland or to catch. yeah. had to do to check the
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republic and i'm not of them said they would try to make the way into germany. it depends on where they have their relatives or friends. you know, they don't want to start completely all over again. so they will go where, where they have some people that know well and who can help them to settle and to make a new life. because most of the people that leah expect marking to return for many, many years and has not been possible. have borders been open and has it been possible to actually, for example, cross the border into poland. so far as we heard the test, yes, there have people who have managed to cross him to poland and we've heard that the board us opened and this is what the people told us to. we know the board is open, the question is just how do they get there? if there are no trade ins and fuel is, is we come in very, very expensive and there's not much shield anymore at the petrol station. that is
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a problem and problems that you can get money from the back machine in p f and you more so yeah, people have to go a long way in order to make it. and it's, it's a very uncertain future that they are facing. now, in the next couple days are very uncertain. and i have one more question for you. the ukranian president himself, he's still in the country. how dangerous is this situation for him right now? i would say it's very dangerous for him and this, and he's like, his family threatened to i don't think it looks to her. i don't know what's gonna happen with the russians are rest to what will they do to him where they will let him live where they kill him? nobody knows. right now i think this is the most important part to to understand that nobody really knows what will come now in the next days and,
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and this is not to see trash and people i used to just like we are not used to it. and it is something your brain can comprehend that quickly because it's nothing we've been brought up with. so the written, new reality is something that needs time to grasp and to orient the south where to go and what to do and what decisions to take. and i think also that is also true for the, for the ukrainian government because they need some guidelines. watch what to do now. journalist andrea jessica in care. thank you so much for joining us during this difficult time. and please do say, say you and european union leaders have agreed to impose new sanctions on russia over as war on ukraine. but they held back from cutting russia from the global swift payment system after resistance from some countries, including germany, european commission president or is it under lion, says the agreed measures would have a major impact on russia's economy. we will hold the kremlin accountable. the
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package of massive and targeted sanctions. european lead is approved to night, clearly demonstrates that it will have maximum impact on the russian economy and the political elite. and it is built off 5 pillars the 1st that the financial sector. second, the energy sector. the 3rd is the transport sector forth, our export controls and the ban of export financing. and finally, visa policy. let's cross over to dw correspondent christine wound were in brussels . hi christine ursula underlines saying the you will hold the kremlin accountable. but does anyone in brussels seriously think that these sanctions will be enough to stop wooten clear? and of course these sanctions are not necessarily designed to, to stop prisoner vladimir putin. that's effectively too late at the idea behind
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these sanctions is to really make it more difficult for the russian president to finance his aggression as the europeans like to refer it to as. and it's also going to put pressure on, on the russian president. and as we see it, it's going to be felt by russians. ordinary russians on the ground are who will experience inflation. the increase in prices, or perhaps that industry will be lost in terms of small businesses as the russian economy is expected to go into recession. so the idea is, of course not to stop president vladimir putin, but to punish him, to make it more uncomfortable for him at to continue in this aggression. and of course they are differing views within the union about and perhaps having to impose tougher restrictions. but this is what they have agreed to for the meantime. the message coming in from the president of the european council, char michelle, who was commenting after they announced this new round of sanctions was at these
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sanctions are massive. and, and that they're going to be painful, so that certainly the hope are, but everybody knows the e, you could have gone a lot further than they have clear so massive and painful. and yet they did stop short of what many analysts argue would hurt moscow. the most that is, namely cutting off russia from the global inter banking system. swift. and we're hearing that germany and italy, we're the ones that lead the charge to block that move. can you explain why? right, so i had to point out that and the sanctions that are being imposed or targeted at the russian economy. i'm also going to have an adverse impacts on some european economies. that is because of the increasing business ties in terms of exports to russia or from, from a number of european countries as well as the, the energy dependency countries like germany and have as well. so part of this decision has to do with self interests. countries like italy who are increasingly doing more and more business or with russia as we've been seeing over the years,
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worrying about their exports to russia, as well as the germans who are a big importer of russian gas and, and also a massive exporter into russia. and so, cutting brush off of the swift payment system would effectively make it impossible to, to, to, to send money to and from russia that will, of course, directly affect these economies in particular, germany and italy. and so the self interest motivation is there, but then there's also the other side to this claim, the argument that the european union needs to keep a some leverage. ah, when it comes to dealing with moscow that perhaps it's, it's holding, it's from firing. it's biggest gun and just yet and, and at waiting at to see how things develop. we're talking about a full scale invasion now. but if this becomes a evolves into some kind of a protracted war, you don't want to lose all of your bargaining ships that you do need to keep some ammunition. and so that is the sentiment that i will tell you that i that has been
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widely criticized, not just from the ukrainians are, but also within the e u. the former or council president of the european l. u. p. council president donald took, i had this to say, he said that the governments which blocked tougher sanctions, he was alluding to swift, have disgraced themselves. of course, he was singling out germany, italy, and hungry are among those are those governments, so even with in europe are there are different views about whether or not swift as should actually have been put on the table. cutting rush off of that payment system a christine you as present, joe biden. he said to meet with nato allies on friday. what can we expect from that meeting? and how worried is nato about russia going further and actually targeting one of its member countries? well, i can, i can tell you this matcher. claire that said, baltic states. i'm talking about lithuania, estonia, ledford, and they have expressed are that they are increasingly fearful, ah,
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for their territorial integrity, they feel more vulnerable now that we've seen. ah, the russia invade ukraine. are they fear more cyber attacks, claire, they, they fear are more dis, information campaigns targeted specifically at ethnic russian communities in their countries. they also do fear at that russia would not stop with ukraine, that russia would also try to perhaps attack and invade their countries. and so we've been hearing it as throughout ad, this situation as, as it's been building up to, to this invasion that we're now witnessing countries like lithuania, asking nato for more reinforcement are in for the existing natal units in, in, in both countries and others. and so we can expect that nato is going to be addressing some of these concerns or perhaps maybe add these countries would like additional support. and that would be discussed today,
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but we do know ok that nato is not going to be discussing at sending or deploying any troops at to ukraine. that is completely off of the table as we heard from the nato secretary general. again, stoughton bird yesterday. or if anything it would be and how to protect nato members. and we know that they've already put provisions in place that they have battleships and, and war planes. at the ready on high alert, they have given special powers to nato's top military commander who can effectively deploy as the response force without having to go through the standard procedure of consulting are all the other allies. so by all indication, nato is preparing itself for the, for, for, for the potential of russia at invading a, one of its allies. and although some might feel that is a big a threat than other would. but we can expect that that is going to be part of the conversation and perhaps even more military aid ukraine. that's something that nature has said, it will do. it's happy unwilling to send military
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a technical know how to, to ukraine, as well as financial support. we will of course, bring you up to speed on the updates from that meeting. our correspondent christy moons were reporting for us from brussels. thanks so much. and i'd like to hear next from security expert marina hanker. she's the director of the center for international security at the her to school here in berlin, a very warm welcome to the show. and we understand that some russian troops have entered the ukrainian capital. what do you expect to happen in the coming days or even hours? well, couldn't state it, he has 2 goals. the 1st one is their di, militarization of ukraine. and the 2nd one is what he termed their d nazi vacation of ukraine. so, and when it comes to the demonization, if russia really uses all its military technology or its capability that can be achieved to fairly quickly because it would involved basically the destruction of
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all sorts of military sites in ukraine, military depots, and ukraine, in military capabilities. when it comes to what he termed, again, d, nazi vacation, that's redeem change. so it could be, you know, a little harder. this goes after the regime disc was after zalinski personally. but one could imagine a scenario where zalinski surrenders, quote unquote to safe civilians. but the big question as always in these type of interventions invasions is what comes next. i could imagine that rush have wouldn't want to occupy ukraine, but rather install a puppet regime. but i'm also pretty certain that large majorities of the ukrainian population will not support that regime. so basically, what we need to expect is a low level or an intermediate level, insurgency, against this new regime that will be built up by russia. and that can take quite a while,
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we should say also those allegations of naziism would be laughable if not so serious. i think a question many have at this moment is, why is russian president putin doing this? now? there are 2 reasons in my view. the 1st one is the election of zalinski. he, you know, from the get go, has a hawkish stance on russia. he entered into military agreements with the united states. and you also bard to russian or pro russian t. v. stations in ukraine and to put, nobody responded to these actions last year with a 1st build up of military forces, but then he withdrew. so the big question is, why did he then, you know, i read to when i write it, he re play the game all over. and here i think he looked at an honest on and i think of canister, had a really important role to play. why? because i think inside of russia in he's an inner circles off putting the
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expectation was that afghanistan at what a terrible tor nato apart, that there would be a lot of in fighting. because of course, the end of fed, the ice have mission was not very successful. so then it, you know, very little taste to calibrate again to really, you know, and take on a big challenge. and i think here you really miss calculated in the big picture of things in russia. there's an assessment right now that the west is weak. it's polarized, there, lot of suicidal tensions between the volk generation and more conservative elements . they're also racial tensions. and so the assessment was, this is actually a fairly opportune moment where we can exploit the decline of the west and the weakness of nato. and i think on, on this front, on the letter front, they really miscalculated because what we saw in the last weeks and months was that needle came out very united and very strong over all the,
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to your point about the chaotic withdrawal from afghanistan. the, those images that questions the powers and ability of nato, and the ukranian president vladimir zalinski. he's now said that his nation has been left alone in this situation. is it the case that western governments have failed ukraine? here? i think the failures concerned more western russia policy. and here i have to look in particular at, at germany after georgia and 2008. and then, of course, crimea in 2014, it should have been more or less clear to a lot of german policy makers. that puddin was not on a track to be the friendly and neighbor that they wanted him to be. and here i think the big mistakes were made at that just, you know, put and was basically treated as just the regular states man as somebody you can add a be trading with. and this, of course, you know, as, while like let's to the conclusion of the nordstrom to agreements. and i think these are the fundamental mistakes that, that were made. the big picture of things,
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when are germany have said it time and time again, that it will not send weapons to ukraine? would anything change on the ground if that position were to change now? well, and i think in this particular moment that you're in, of course, you know, we need to ask the ukrainian exactly what kind of help they want. but i think germany's role and i said this a on several occasions also and already is much more political and it's economic. and in here, germany at, you know, some other european countries as well as still holding back. they're still holding back with the really, really harsh sanctions, which would of course then concern and energy and as swift. but i think this is where germany has the real leverage and where you know, of course, the real costs as well, occur at for a, for it, for german, for german net economy and, and the people marina hanker the director of the center for international security at the her to school in berlin at thanks so much for coming on the show. really
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appreciate your insights. thank you. and if you're just joining us now, russia is ramping up its invasion of ukraine. now in its 2nd day ukraine saying its forces are battling russian troops on the edge of the capital. key of that there have been reports of gunfire near the government district. ah, those air raid sirens you're hearing, they've been sounding in key of and in other cities, prompting people to take shelter in metro stations. an apartment building was also partially destroyed overnight, and ukraine has said it shot down to russian missiles and a fighter jet over the capitol. the ukrainian government says at least 137 people have died since the invasion began, and hundreds more have been injured. let's say you now to some why the pictures of the situation right now in the ukrainian capital key of look at that, not a soul in sight. and these live pictures might suggest that there is some kind of
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com taking place at the might ends where you may recognize it as one of the main landmarks. it's in the heart of the city really. but the people that you're not seeing out there in that square, they are seeking cover in shelters and in underground train stations. and there are also reports of russian soldiers in the city itself. won't of course be re more as we get it. i'll be with you for the next several hours with team coverage crossing to, or correspondence around the world's. speaking of that international perspective, china has come under pressure from western countries for so for refusing to label russia's attack on ukraine as an invasion. u. s. president joe biden said that any country that backed russia's invasion would be stained by association on a news briefing this morning, trying to warn ministry spokesperson hit back saying, the country whose reputation will be stained is that which interfered in other nations internal affairs in the name of human rights and which went on to wage worse. so the get more from the to these washington bureau chief ynez paul who
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joins me now in as seeing and hearing this from the chinese foreign ministry. seems pretty clear who they were referring to. right. well sure. they are referring to a president biden who kind of threatened any country and specifically china if they would support pollutants, war or pollutants invasion in ukraine. and the by biden had a reason to do so. because maybe you remember just when the olympic games were opened and busying, putting, and she she ping mets. and after this meeting they said we are standing closely together and nothing can interfere with our friendship. so china is really standing close or with russia. russia knows that that in a way makes put in strong. but on the other hand, china is also a little bit in a tricky position here because shore they share the common enemy, the united states with russia. but they also need the european market. so
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a war in the heart of europe is not good for their economical goals. so it's, it's really a complicated situation and we shouldn't be too fast to draw any conclusions. but this statement definitely from the chinese government definitely is a clear message to president joe biden. leave us alone in as talk more about how relations between china and united states have been affected and will go on to be affected by this conflict. well, and, you know, the situation here in the united states really has changed earth throughout the years. president obama was the one who basically kind of changed the focus from europe for uh, from the enemy, a russia to really towards the pacific room. i was president or donald trump enough
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is he clearly targeted a china is the biggest competitor. and you also have this feeling on the streets here, or when you talk to an average to average americans. the focus is not so much longer on fighting communism. it's really kind of keeping america strong and keeping a businesses in the united states. so this is the bigger picture of this conflict are, and this is what we're gonna see over the next weeks. probably also the political discussions because it will not be able for president provide and to convince his fellow americans that this conflicts in ukraine has something to do with her world order. after all that, hell is maureen as how exactly will the invasion or is it being discussed or in the united states media and among the american public and on what terms the take is sir. very different because of many reasons. if you would ask her an
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average american to point out where are you crying lies on a map or he or she wouldn't be able to do that. europe is really far away and you know, most americans also dawned really share in the history. we do share in germany and europe. i talked to my father yesterday who was a so many glued to the television and followed the news. and he told me when he heard the sirens and key as he got goose bumps on his back. because this brought back the memory of his childhood in the 2nd world war. and i think this kind of history is also shared to the younger generation. i grew up in the seventy's and the cold war was very present. so we grew up with this fear. so this is something which is not present or here in the united states, people kind of are much more concerned about their energy prices or the sky rocking a gas prices. so they worry that the sanctions are best present by them just
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announced yesterday will become costly for themselves as well. so it's a very, very different take and maybe understandably so, because ukraine, europe, after all, is pretty far away from the united states. now, well, that may be the opinion of most people in the united states. there are around a 1000000 people there of ukrainian descent. what do we hear from you craney, andy asper about biden's policy toward russia and the conflict in ukraine. the burdens raisins yesterday in front of the white house and in front of the russian embassy dominated by immigrants from ukraine. and they are really, really disappointed. and obviously devastated are really, are very worried about the families. many try to bring their families over to the united states. they pretty much share the tag from a residence uminski saying we are left alone. i mean,
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they now one to defend themselves was with home made a mullet of cocktail. so in case not here in the washington, obviously in the united states, but they really would hope that they also would get military support from nato. and they don't really buy this argument. the nato can't help. and ukraine in that regard, because you, ukraine is not a nato member, so people ukrainians here in the united states, a very, very disappointed or washington bureau chief n as paul, thanks so much for joining us with that update. and he'll be his chief political correspondent, melinda crane, and joins me now in the studio for more analysis. when to thanks so much for joining us. so with russian troops reportedly entering key of where do we stand and where do things go from here? well, as we heard, there are reports of fighting directly in a key of the countries president has said that he does, in fact, believe himself and his family to be target number one. and i think that is
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certainly something that the west will closely be watching to see. in fact, what does happen to him? we've also seen that the ukranian defense ministry has put out a post on social media calling on citizens in key of who are still there to prepare molotov cocktails to try to hold back those russian forces. a very troubling illustration of the degree to which the city may have trouble defending itself and be relying on self defense, homemade self defense on the part of cit, horrifying. if you're watching tv, you see suddenly instructions on how to make molotov cocktails. that's not a very troubling and once again, something that many of us would said i would have said can't happen in, in europe at the same time. we're hearing from the head of the you council child michel, that an urgent new preparation for
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a further round of sanctions is already in the works. perhaps linked to questions about what could happen to the ukrainian government in the event that a russian forces now do take care of and are firmly in control there. because certainly vladimir putin has indicated that he would look for retribution against a government that he's accused. among other things of genocide. falsely accused of course, one must ad. so a lot of development that the west is keeping an eye on, including that flow of refugees. you just mentioned the estimate that the u. n is now giving up to $4000000.00 is at the higher end of the range. i had heard german authorities talk about tens of thousands up to a 1000000 who would enter europe. but certainly people here in germany are also expecting refugees to wind up here in berlin here the capital city. and brandon.
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org or the surrounding area are making plans for refugee shelters. and apparently trying to clarify whether refugees would have the right to work, which indicates that they clearly expect that they could be here for some time. there germany, of course, plays a big role in all of this. and actually, germany's former chancellor anglo merkel has now spoken out. she was an office during russia's annexation of crimea in 2014, when she insisted on keeping communication open with moscow. but now, in a statement to the news agency dpa she has said this, let's take a look. this war of aggression by russia marks a profound turning point in the history of europe after the end of the cold war. there is no justification whatsoever for this blatant breach of international law and i condemn it in the strongest possible terms. now, there has been a lot of criticism that germany has even to an extent enabled us this situation by
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allowing continued dependency on russian and gas. i mean, melinda, what, what you make of miracles, comments just there? well, she's certainly not alone with those comments. she has joined a broad chorus of voices from all across the political spectrum here in germany. we also heard the remarks by the president, frank vall, to shine my a little bit earlier with a very similar take us saying, you know, breach of international law, territorial integrity and so on. both of them illustrate the ambivalence of german policy, these of the russia over really, over decades. the ambivalence on the one hand is that frank file to shine meyer. as you mentioned, stood on the my down that central square in key of when there were massive demonstrations against the countries pro russian backed president in 2014 and attempted to moderate between the demonstrators and the president, and thereby prevented further bloodshed. he was later accused by vladimir putin of
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helping fo meant a qu, namely bringing into power.

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