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tv   Panelists Discuss Countering Violent Extremism  CSPAN  August 7, 2017 10:03am-12:04pm EDT

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we are out of time. we have a live event we will bring you. we will see you tomorrow here at 7:00 for more "washington journal." the religious freedom center museum is holding a panel discussion called effectively countering extremism, a copperheads of grassroots report. a series of panelists. three separate sections to this event. we will show it all to you live on c-span. >> for those of us who are joining from c-span and from abc, we want to welcome you, we want to welcome you. at 10 a.m., the first panel, and then 1:00 and 2:30. you can do so by following us on twitter. #rfcmuseum. we look forward to hearing from you and engaging you throughout
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the day. in the meantime, i want to give special thanks to my colleagues who have made this event possible, dr. wyatt, karim ibrahim, and my colleagues here at the museum, ashley, makin, chris -- megan, chris, and maurice, and everyone who has been doing the work, dylan and so on. we cannot do this without you, and none of the work you have done has gone unnoticed. thank you. specifically on your tables and also online is information about our first amendment training program that equips religious and civic leaders on how to be effective on issues of religion and public life, how to become constitutional and human rights specialists on the moral and ethical issues of our time. my colleague sabrina is at the back to be able to help you with questions. on your tables, you have an
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online -- -- and online, you have information to scholarships for this full accredited trading where you can get credits for engaging in this online coursework as well as travel scholarships from our partners at the center for islam and religious freedom to be able to send people from around the country to washington, d.c., to engage in the same type of programming you are doing now. in this brief video, you will see a little bit about that program and hear directly from our students, and then we will get started. welcome. [video clip] ♪ >> my name is ahmed. >> john thomas. ♪ >> i am from pakistan. >> california.
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>> virginia. >> massachusetts. ♪ >> full-time student. >> high school teacher. >> organic food developer. >> i am jewish. >> baptist. >> sunni muslim. >> mormon. >> muslim. ♪ educating people about religious freedom now is the most important thing that we have to do in our country. >> religious freedom>> just -- >> religious freedom just means plainly the ability to practice my religion or any religion without backlash. >> one of the basic freedoms. >> religious freedom is the reason why my family is alive and well and living in america.
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>> i would check at her member who said this, but it is not religious freedom at all unless it is religious freedom for all, and i think that is part of what makes it so important. >> in order to be a full citizen of the united states of america, a country that was frankly founded on religious freedom, we have to have a means of teaching intelligent stories holistically and clearly. the religious freedom center does that. society that -- each other and being knowledgeable about others besides their own. the religious freedom center is moving towards that. >> taking a course at religious freedom center was one of my best academic decisions, but i realized it will benefit me as a human being. >> religious freedom center is a
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safe place. i am so impressed. when i first walked in the door, just a warm environment. everybody is really nice. everybody is just one big happy family. ♪ >> i think the religious freedom center is training in army of leaders -- an army of leaders. it is not about talking of things, but getting people acting on things. coming here with fellow students. -- experience >> there are millions of
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internally displaced people in nigeria that need help. many are without food or medicine. famine is occurring. you never read about it. >> real-world and everyday life, muslims do not speak for muslims. >> stand up for the people you disagree with, and come to the table, and find ways to live together. >> discussions about how the united states has become a nation of religious minorities. community of people from so many different and diverse backgrounds, religion, rachel, economic -- racial, economic, geographic, being able to have everyone together is invaluable. curious about the beliefs, but i never asked anyone. >> it was really interesting to
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meet people from different faiths. for the first time, i talked to a jew. i have never talked to a jew. >> it does not have to be a rights issue. it does not have to be a partisan issue. this can be an issue that actually builds bridges between people of good faith, whether that face is religiously branded or not. make a better civil society. center,eligious freedom i think it has the potential to be and is in my mind the nerve center for religious freedom in our country. [applause] >> good morning. how is everyone? let me just also say that one of our panelists and a member of
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the group, mohammed hussein, is a graduate from the religious freedom center. you did not tell us you were dancing like that. [laughter] >> let me just also do some housekeeping items because we are very thankful to nate and his team as well as c-span and, but our faith dictates us to be think the two gotd. we also have to be grateful to the people. i want to thank three people specifically for helping us put this project on. first of all, we want to have dr. nate walker come to the stage. on behalf of the group, i want to give you this small token of appreciation, a book signed. >> thank you. my pleasure.
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look forward to supporting you. >> thank you very much. bowers. [laughter] >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. thank you. >> have a good day. and the lady who conscripted her son to work here, ashley. [laughter] >> no problem. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. also, one of the members of the group, ameen muslim, who was on the panel, who is also an employee in d.c. government and works for the d.c. police had a relapse dealing with cancer. i know he is watching.
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may allah make it easy for you. ameen. he was supposed to be here, and he had a relapse the day before yesterday so i want to extend a heartfelt thanks and we support him and we miss him, and we will see him after we leave here. as nate was mentioning with the group, i want to give an overview what we are about. i know sometimes we can be a little loquacious and extemporaneous. i prepared notes so i can stick to the format, to the program, which also means you have no cards, so you will stick to the format of writing your questions on the, and we will address -- the notecards, and we will address the questions. there is a supporter of the tam group who is an elected official in the state of maryland, where we reside. i know you wanted to give some remarks. anthony.everend [applause]
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>> thank you. thank you very much. first of all, let me say good morning. see a politician who is irreverent, you better send him notes or you will be here until lunchtime listening to us pontificate on and on. i want to thank you first of all for inviting me. i want to thank you for inviting me and sponsoring this conference on effectively challenging extremism. i want to thank the tam group for all that you have done as well. looken say this as we across not just the history of our country, we have a historically experienced extremism in many ways. when you take the actions of one and paying all because of the actions -- paint all because of the actions of a few.
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i hope you look at not just what you can do, but ask us as a government what we can do because, again, there are many things that will drive people to do what they are doing. in the face of not just our government, but also religious institutions, there are many things we need to do as well. when he to make sure we are not providing a gap for persons to misinterpret or even interpret the actions of some that are wrong. our government is not perfect. there is no religion that is perfect. when we all come together as one, we can make sure that we stand together. the reason that i cross the lines from maryland from my district to come over here to the district of columbia, and i think they gave me a pass to stay until noon, and then i have to go to the state house. i am kidding. i came to say honestly i stand with you with what you are doing. honestly, i stand with you and say that we know that
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everywhere, good will always overcome the actions of others. we stand together for that. i stand in terms of the statehouse.i experienced things i see in the statehouse and in government all the time. people react to that. they are reacting. right here in my own state, they are reacting to mass incarceration. they are reacting to joblessness. until we take that seriously and do something about the number of issues, racism is alive, and it is well, and it is everywhere. it takes those who can rise above that to say, let's join hands, and let's make sure we are sending the right message. that is what i have come here to say. good morning to all of you. i know it will be productive. anything i or my office can do to be of any help, we are here for you. thank you so much. >> thank you. [applause] promised, i will stick to my notes. we can then transfer it over to
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dr. baker. today, we are witnessing in the public space everyone from the maintenance engineer in the school buildings to the made by thecerpts president of the united states and government agencies and defining terms such as extremism, radicalism, and the all infamous, radical islamic terrori. although many islamic countries around the world have detested that and many other terms seek to vilify a religion and define a way of life for the fastest-growing religion on the to begine really want to have an open and honest discussion about what muslims's response, to
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extremism and radicalism as we see it from the context of the koran and the hadith of the prophet muhammad, peace be upon him. it is often used as a justification for extremist ideology. we are here to tell you that is not the case. today, we are indebted to the religious freedom center for providing a forum and also providing the mic. when we met with dr. baker 2.5 years ago, one of the questions i was asked as well as when we had an interview with cbs news, they kept asking us many questions about 9/11, terrorism, and i said where are the muslims responding to these issues? said, we do not have access to the mic. the folks that these news media give the mic to are not conducive to its resting what this land is all about so we are -- what islam is all about, so
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we are hoping today that you will hear our perspective on combating and dealing with extremist ideologies and radicalism. histam group, with rectifying extremist ideologies, was formed in august 2014. when the 9/11 anniversary came, five of us, a total of 10 in the group now, but five of us came and said, where is our voice in discussing this whole issue of extremism? so we painstakingly looked at who was in our circle, but then we started reaching out to folks who are experts in their field to say, we need to put together a compendium of information, but also experts in their field to address these issues. we have a whole approach. as you know, i am now a real estate developer, but in the corrections industry, you had
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halfway houses. our approach is whole. we have a whole approach. halfway.t going you will hear that's a from the presentations of the various members, but we also want to show that what we did is provide a superb qualified group of professionals with expertise in radicalization, islamic theology, human development, social services, prison chaplaincy, and community reintegration. you will hear that from everyone here today that is on the panel. everyone is superbly qualified. yes, we have two doctors in the house that will speak to those issues. one of the things i want to say before i turn it over to dr. baker is we want this to be an informal discussion. it is not us preaching to you. we want to engage in discussion. that is why we have the no cards. , we want totime make sure we present you not only our opinion, but we want to
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present to you factual data that shows what is being discussed and how it is erroneous and what is the correct information, and we challenge you to look at our information. we challenge you to really say this is not true because we believe all we are presenting today. we believe it is not only true, but it is the standard of over 1.8 billion muslims around the world. we think it is a theology misconception that spurned and grew isis and al qaeda, but we will talk to you about how that can be rectified through the ideology and what we want to present today. without further ado, let me present to you my brother from the u.k. by way of london, dr. baker. >> thank you. good morning, ladies and gentlemen. salam to my brothers and sisters who are here. i'm very pleased to be in the
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u.s. my colleagues have really rolled out the carpet for me if i can say so. termnate mentioned the effectiveness as he spoke. i think we need to look at the approaches we are having regarding countering and combating violent extremism. an extensive experience from insider perspective from the u.k., that extended here to an extent. for example, some of the individuals that i spent the 1990's fighting ideologically, theologically are now incarcerated in u.s. maximum-security prisons. some of these individuals i knew personally not as colleagues but as those who are like a thorn in the side of the community because of the propagation of this poisonous rhetoric. what you have there, that is a
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colleague of mine. when we talk about violent extremism, terrorism, we always look beyond that for some far-off country, but we have individuals among us who have a propensity for violence as non-muslims, and we have seen that upon them embracing islam and being exposed to an extreme ideology or extreme propaganda, that is a very toxic and dangerous reality. this imagery that is here is not just for show. it is a reality that some of us are facing. what are some of the causes? we need to understand what the drivers are. at the moment, we are seeing industryent extremism has become an industry. many experts have popped up from
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everywhere. some have good credentials. what is there evidence? where is the research-based? their research based? we are seeing little connectivity between the community and the wider society. that is where a misuse and misapplication of terminology is taking place because the muslim community needs to be engaging more. this is a call and a request to the muslim communities as well. there is a need to engage more with wider statutory bodies. pull iscuum, that whole quite severe if we do not work in a multi-pronged approach in combating this. understanding the reasons of gravitation to violent extremism is something, again, if we are
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looking in our own lane at this, you have intelligence services taking a particular approach. you have communities having a particular insular approach. both moving in their own lanes. no convergence whatsoever. then what we have is the data and intelligence that statutory bodies are getting. use of terminology which further marginalizes orthodox practices. then you have the suspicion from muslim communities when they are looking at engaging or the reluctance to engage with statutory bodies. i would say to muslim communities as well, a brace that needs to be made like in the u.k. when we were approached by a new unit being set up in the metropolitan police, i was reluctant. at theirooked
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we looked at a keyword, partnership. partnership, a two-way process. not the previous top-down coercive intelligence gathering structure we have seen from the police and statutory bodies. we tested those waters. those waters enabled us to be facilitated to continue the work we are doing.facilitation . this is a very interesting theoretical framework that was produced by the combating terrorism center. when i looked at this particular framework, i decided to use it and test it in my phd. this can be applied to different types of muslim communities. you would have different communities. you have different bases there,
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but we wanted to focus on this one. this is not concentric circles showing a gravitation towards extremism. in his showing where communities targeted themselves, where they situate themselves in wider communities. as you will see very shortly, for example, some may position themselves in the muslim constituency, the wider, larger body of religious muslims. then you might moving to a more politicized community, the islamists type of bases, the politicized community. then you have the salafi community, which is more ideologically based. you have jihadi, and i will talk about that term. communitye extremist where they look. they sit within these wider
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familiaritydue to be it physical and somewhat ideologically, and we need to familia familiarize ourselves wh this. i will give you an example why. richard reid, zacharias, i used to know both of them. i was doing my mba. he was doing a business management course. i watched as he became more belligerent when he would come back from the mosque. as he returned to the mosque, he became more argumentative. we challenged some of these views, and it was clear he was going to other arenas, not mosques. i want to make that clear now. radicalism is and from my research and many others, muslim, non-muslim academics, does not take place in the mosque. they take place in other spaces, which we do not know or we do not visit or we do not engage or challenge with.
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he was going to other study circles, other premises where re, and heemists we was getting the rhetoric that our understanding, the salafi wrong,anding of jihad is but why am i talking about this? when zacharias moussaoui was french moroccan, he was not a practicing muslim in his early days. he was in montpellier. there was a lot of social deprivation and economic marginalization of particular communities. however, when he started attending college, university, sorry, he started meeting students from various walks of life within the islamist community. they were talking about politics, the situation in algeria, the situation in other foreign lands, palestine. he eventually left france, and when he came to the u.k., a
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gravitated towards the salafi community. his frustration with the islamist community is it was politicized. their was no religiosity. he saw there was ideology. they were religiously strict and very strong in their theology, but he saw a passivity he did not like. he engagement me he said we were passive and he said this is not the way to understand jihad. it was surprising that he gravitated toward a community that said it combined both politics, the islamist community, and ideology. with these rudimentary understandings, he found that community to be the one that resonated with him the most. richard reid was the same.
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his gravitation when he came out of prison was a lot quicker. -- hiscalization radicalization was quicker in the 90's. know the process nowadays is much faster than it was before. the process of radicalization as much faster. what other countermeasures we are using. are they as potent as the propaganda we see from extremists? we believe that question to a later time. moving on, and mentioned earlier about the community. it's important that the statutory ba body does not do it was happening in the u.k. it was originally community focused. they had the credibility to address extremism and propaganda but then they reverted to the
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age-old community focus, immunity targeted, suspect communities, when of danger and intelligence and that's where the preventive strategy is seen as very toxic. i will not stay too long on these but what we've got to look if the government goes for a liberal set of muslim counter radicalization. the youth on the ground will reject that just like they rejected their parents traditional aspects of islam and you have a pendulum swing. what we need to be looking at are those in the middle. unfortunately, we are seeing a polarization of government strategy as well. they want a particular brand of islam so therefore they overlook the most effective counterterrorism moves.
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the next framework i don't want to spend too much time i begins an idea where particular groups and entities from the u.k. perspective are proficient. i am mindful of the time but i want you to look at this particular framework. it's a cross-section of the final theory. you will see the wider outer circle. then you have the more generic muslim community. inside, you have the more insular but theologically-based community and then you have the vacuum down the middle. gravitation ist aimed at that but i say no. ,hose closest to the problem most effective are the ones who should be engaged and we are engaging with. the individuals like richard reid and zacharias massaoui.- the individuals who disappeared in syria, they went from that
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vacuum there was not the joint of multiagency approach were credible partners were being engaged to counter this. i'm going to conclude on this sorry we are going at speed but the rest of the presentation and the subsequent panels, i will revisit some of these frameworks. when we look at this particular framework here, you will see i have noted at the very mouth of the funnel which is the pressure is less. you have the more liberal deliberate provocation. you got the most literal aspects of society who do not have an effectiveness and addressing counteracting violent is cute -- extremism and the propaganda. as the gravitational pull become stronger, we get to the neck of the funnel. there have been committees for combating0 years
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through their communities, through their purpose, through the written material, come back to violent extremism. what has been witnessed is a reflux. of the individuals who are pulled down into extremism would stop at the neck of the funnel or if they've gone down to the neck, they will come back because they realize that what they have seen with extremist rhetoric, with activist propaganda as in syria and a iraq, that it's a lie. they have been fed misunderstandings and misrepresentations. we will see why they were so susceptible. to theto hand over doctor here.
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where i want you to look on this particular funnel is at the neck where the hard interventions need to take place. when we talk about hard in interventions, it's not necessarily easy. my muslim colleagues who are here, we are very reluctant to point out the extremists. we make callout and refer to the ideology and show how poisonous that is but we are very reluctant to call out the extremists. i will mention names. and others.t abu that was within our own sphere. that does not mean -- what do you mean called out? did you inform the police? no, we were doing our own work. that was in the 90's. the authorities caught up 2005-2010, 15 years later. all of those individuals are no longer on the u.k. land.
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some of them are here. we need to look at those who are most effective at the neck of the funnel to combat extremism and not marginalize them and not coin new terminology. nonviolent extremism exists. blanchepply that carte against a wide swath of muslims is a disservice and injustice when i will conclude and carry on with the next panel. thank you. [applause] >> when dr. baker mention statutory, he means u.s. government agencies. the second thing is in about 10 minutes, as the sheik is speaking, if you can start
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forming your questions, the questions will come around and i will come to me and i will pass them or speak to them and have the respective panelists answer. in 10 minutes, if you can start forming your questions i,brahim will pick them up and we will handle them that way. take the liberty since you talked about statutory, i don't want to assume that everybody knows who richard reid is. who was he? >> he was the shoe bomber. the 9/11 massaoui bomber and those of those -- in both of those individuals we saw the radicalization after they were expelled from the mosques because we could not accept the rhetoric. we saw them moving in particular circles but there was nothing in place to counter it. these are who these two individuals are.
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allah the gracious and merciful, i want to thank the museum for inviting us here today and hosting this event. as it was mentioned in the beginning, it is very important that the mic finally beginning to muslims to address what other people may see as radical. exampleut myself as an but i think that some people, if they saw him a down the street, may think that's a bit radical. different that hopefully by the end of this talk, we will understand what we mean when we say the term radicalization. i want to begin by saying that i think we as muslims in this country, and i want this to be board, we across the
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are just as, if not more, concerned about extremism and radicalism and terrorism as our fellow americans. because terrorism w a religion that if an attack happens, they are not determining that this is not an attack that -- that this is some sack on a particular religion. muslims are killed disproportionately by terrorists. -92 percent of people who have been victims of terrorism in the world are muslims. they are not non-muslims of this is important to understand. even on this country, why is it that we are as concerned if not more concerned? for non-muslims, the issue is one of safety. we want to be safe. we want to be able to live our lives unimpeded and not worry
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about violence. as muslims, we worry about a second thing and that is that every time an attack happens, our religion is maligned. this is very important. no non-muslim has to do with this. once an attack occurs, it is assumed that it is a muslim terrorist attack until proven otherwise. muslim, there is usually a number of excuses why this attack occurred. he was isolated as a child, he was abused by his father or whatever the situation may be, there is a load of excuses, nothing to do with religion. those cynics uses may exist amongst the muslim who carries out the attack. the benefit of the doubt is never given to us.
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the second reason why we are concerned is because our religion which we hold dear is maligned. -- that's more like an ideological thing. number three is that often times there is an uptick in anti-muslim or hate crimes against muslims. crime, weere is not a are criminalized, random searches by the tsa or otherwise. our sisters of islam are attacked because they are wearinghijabs and so on. it's a reaction to an attack carried out by a muslim in the name of islam. i wanted to start out with that so that it is very clear to everyone that we are also
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concerned about radicalization and extremism and terrorism. segue into what i want to discuss with you today, which is confronting radicalization or confronting ,xtremism, as i just mentioned we view ourselves as muslims. we view ourselves as facing a degree of persecution. in the west. we are facing persecution from the media and otherwise. happens tomes, what a people who are persecuted is that they tend to look to a subset or a minority amongst themselves in order to deflect to that minority such
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that the persecution is listed on the whole. i know that was a mouthful. i want you to follow what i'm saying here. a lot of times, what happens is when there is a group -- if we look at the 60's for example, you have a nonviolent movement for civil rights. but there was also a movement that was not nonviolent in nature. but itt it was violent was a movement that did not subscribe to nonviolence. if there was an attack, they would respond i in kind. some people used them as a scapegoat. we throw the light on them and they are the bad guys. they're the bad guys and we are the good guys of don't oppress all of us. take out your ire on this particular group of people. unfortunately is happening in the muslim community.
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we need to understand this because there is this narrative that is an international narrative. that is that all of the extremism that exists, islam is a peaceful religion, and all of that exists in islam is we have this group called the wjadais or the sarafis and because of that we have extremism in our midst. that narrative is something -- we will not go into the terminology and defining what exactly is the difference. it's a very elastic term. by taking thatat approach, we have this bad guy/good guy approach, we adheresized a group who to faith-based principles which have shown historically, proven
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historically to be one of the best measures to fight against extremism. i hope that point is clear. group, welizing this are in fact marginalizing a group who adheres to faith-based principles that have historically shown to fight against extremism. i will give you an example of that. as ane talk aboutsalafi epistemology, that is identifying the sources from which we take our knowledge as muslim, identifying those sources and being able to interpret them and the broadest valid sense, then we are talking about the companions of the messenger of allah. we are talking about their
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understanding of the text as opposed to the way that other people may interpret the text of islam. , want to take you on a journey maybe 1400 some odd years ago so that we can see this in practice. are you ready for the journey? there was a great dispute amongst the muslims at the beginning of the caliphate of ali. he was the fourth caliphate. it was after the prophet mohammed died. ipha, thena cal addi took over 25 years after the death of the prophet. may blessings and peace be upon him.
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what happened at that time was there was conflict among the muslims, the khalifa before him was killed and there was a dispute among the muslims as to how to deal with that. a group of them secluded themselves in an area outside of khoufa in iraq. this group is what we now know today, they were the beginning of the group that we now know today as the harage. , which means to exit or to leave. they left off the authority of the khalifa and effectively rebelled against him. this group was 6000 at that particular time. they declared the rest of the muslims cannot be muslims, that they are outside of the fold of
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islam.this is extreme to excommunicate an entire group of muslims. muslims but only those who god said in the koran that he was pleased with, the companions of god's messenger. what happened was, in order to or avoid ad a debate war, one of the companions of mohammed was the cousin of the prophet mohammed. he was a great scholar amongst the muslims at the time. the term companion, are we familiar with that? companions are similar to the terminology disciple, someone who directly took from the messenger of god. they were considered his companion. this companion went out to debate with them. he wanted to engage them
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ideologically, engage with them on a mental level, perhaps they would come back to their senses. when he got to them -- we need to follow the story because we need to see -- what i want you to see is how the koran is used by extremists and how it was understood by those who were with the profit of those who continue to follow that as a methodology today. is he gets to these people and as he begins to engage them, some of them call out -- don't debate with him because god says in the koran that rather they are a people who like to argue. this is a verse from the koran. he is saying don't talk with a companion because they were from the tribe that the prophet mohammed was from.
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when prophet muhammad tried to , when hes own tribe tried to talk to them, some of them would just cap frivolous arguments and god revealed this about them. he said there are people who like to debate. they now took this verse which was revealed about a specific subset of people and they came and they used this verse and tried to apply it to this great companion. this is a total misrepresentation of the meaning of that verse. it does not mean that they don't quote the koran. they are quoting the koran. , i will diverge for a section, the problem is that they are not recognizing what the pronoun and the verse refers to. rather, they are a people who are argumentative.
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who is they? it's like one of my professors used to say to us, if you understand the pronoun, then you understand 50% of what you are reading. take, for example, the often quoted a vote -- verse from the koran which is plastered all kill them wherever you find them. somebody comes and does as a favor and they put in parentheses, the infidel. ok, so we understand from this that we are supposed to go out and kill the infidels. i have news for you. ramadan was two months ago? the muslims in general like all of them, read the koran every day in ramadan. this is a practice across the world. 1.8 billion muslims reading the koran, if they understood from kill them that is the infidel
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wherever you find them, do you too manywould have non-muslims in the world? i don't think so. i think there would be a call to action but that clearly is not what was understood by those who read the koran. verse to putone this in context -- god says in the koran right before that verse, if they fight you, if they fight you then fight them back but don't transgress. if they fight you then fight them back but don't transgress. god does not love the transgression. so, what does it mean when it says fight them? they are talking about the people who consistently fight you. what does it mean kill them where you find in question at those who consistently persistent fighting you. was aevious verse
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permission from god to fight back because the muslims in the beginning did not have permission to fight back. they were not allowed to. then that permission was given and come on top of that, do your best to repel them. understanding the pronoun. to get back to our story, i'm i guess i did not stick to my notes -- to get back to our story, what he said i havet come to you from the companions of god's messenger. they witnessed the revelation. this is important because he said they witnessed the revelation and they are more knowledgeable of the koran then you are. there is not one of them amongst you, all of these 6000, who have considered the rest of the
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muslim nation to be non-muslim. there is not one companion who witnessed the revelation who were with mohammed and saw his teachings, is not one of them amongst you. to show them that in order to understand this religion properly, you must understand it coupled with that interpretation. , whatsaid to them grievances do you have against the khalifa? they mention three grievances and i will only mention one because the rest are related to the koran and for the sake of time. they said to him, as was the first thing they mentioned, our main grievance against him is that he brought other people to arbitrate and rule in a decision. what he's talking about is when the man was killed, the khalifa prior to him, there was a
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dispute between the two. they settled the dispute amongst themselves. no. said god said in the koran that the judgment is only for god. therefore, you cannot bring other people to judge. look at this interpretation. therefore, if you bring other people to judge, you're a disbeliever. they said what else do you have? is only for god to judge. we don't disagree with you but god has given us other instructions in the koran. we need to understand the koran in light of other texts and in light of the broader principles
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of the religion. what is that text? he brought as proof the verse and chapter the fourth chapter of the koran. or womanlking if a man have a dispute amongst themselves, a husband and a says send forth a judge from her side, someone to arbitrate and someone who is representing the wife. and a judge from his side. to arbitrate. if they want reconciliation, then god will bring harmony between them such that there is not marital discord. , what iswing here greater in terms of breaking arbitrators, to keep a family together or to keep the nation of muslims together. you understand this interpretation.
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there is so much that can be said. you've got five minutes. >> grate, is the deputy chief coming? five minutes, i will try to wrap this up. the point of this story is that extremists, historically, have , extremist in every religion, have used their scripture to justify whatever position they have. it does not mean that the scripture itself is faulty. it means that their interpretation of the scripture is faulty because they have uncoupled it from its a valid use and that's something we need to understand. it's very important that we get that point across. the second point to kind of rep this up to the best of my ability is that when we look at
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addressing extremists -- i'm talking from a muslim context because i do not believe that thatmism, and i know radicalism is not something that is specific to islam but since we are dealing with it in this context, i will restrict my comments to the muslim context. people ared is that not being radicalized in the mind. radicalized in other spaces. therefore, it is haveerproductive when we statutory agencies or government agencies that are surveilling the masses, making people feel uncomfortable to go to the mosque as if they are criminals because they attend the mosque frequently.
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this is counterproductive. it is in the mosque that people are learning the true teachings of islam and being prevented from being radicalized and come in other instances, being de- radicalized after they have fallen into whatever they have come across about the religion. therefore, because they are not being radicalized in the mind -- in the mosque. people are being radicalized in becoming extremist, where's that happening? studies show that is primarily happening online. this is something that is happening through the internet. belief thatt is our the most effective approach to dealing with radicalization and extremism today, it's not to write an article where we debunk
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certain myths and put that on the internet or tweet out something or make a video for youtube. ist it is going to require that a people, maybe hundreds of muslims, are trained in how to engage with the people in those spaces on the internet. the authorities know with those spaces are in they are monitored. we need to begin and access to those spaces so that we can who areith those people taking on this extremist ideology. a need to be able to train number of other people. what is it they are using? what verses from the koran? what teachings from the prophet muhammad are they using in order
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to convince people that their way is the right way? we don't leave that most people are radicalized initially through theological attempts or through the koran. most of them are radicalized grievances.tical look at what they are doing to the muslims in this place. look at what's happening to our brothers and sisters in that place. what about palestine? happens, as we all know, political grievances are temporary. that problem may go away. how do we cement these people once we've got the mineral grips? this is when those who have experience are able to now come and use those initial grievances, flip them around, read verses from the koran that now cement this person and give them a permanent existential threat. now they believe that this is forward.
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this is the way we correct things. this is how they become radicalized and stay radicalized , not just how they become so. we believe the best approach to deal with that an address that to the rooms,ss the spaces where these people are so that we can engage them one on one. approach where we write a report, that may appease our senses of the masses, that will not going to be the way that we effectively deal with extremism or radicalization. [applause] i will stop there. thank you. >> as a side note, i wanted to although he is
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the first american to be teaching at the second holiest mosque in islam. it's in medina so he teaches english there on a regular basis. he teaches islam in english but you can also see the youtube videos he has on their. also, before asking question about the baker, we will talk in a later session on practical applications of what these have been talking about. we will not just talk. but also talk application and how it's being done. with that, let me ask some questions. this one is to you. cve ton you be engaged in expose them to positive, nonviolent, political and theological outlets?
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please mention any best practices of this? >>. the question i think he mentioned the holistic approach. when we are talking theology or particular aspects involving youth, it's restricted. they have a comprehensive holistic approach. toorganization, we started get into those spaces where these radicalized individuals. is we had work streams. the first one was an outreach where we did sports, trips, general engagement. we did that because we found the larger number of attendees came to those activities. who had so, their peers radical tendencies, who worse except double to violent
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extremism and many of them were engaged, were being left out. they did not want to be highlighted in that way so they would participate in these wider generic activities. when they saw the level of engagement and when we were able to identify them through these processes of engagement, we moved them to the work streams. thematic youtha institute where we engaged in more concentrated programs. engagement,visual deconstruct programs, one-to-one counseling with social issues, mental issues. they opened up because they saw that there was a safe space where they could engage and know that were not going to be just given an purported to the police as a matter of intelligence. some of you from intelligence agencies ask where you get your report. all of us work ended here to a civic responsibility.
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if we have sure knowledge that someone is going to engage in terrorism or terrorist acts, it is incumbent upon us to report that individual. that's were the partnership comes in. the authorities, the government, the statutory bodies, they have to trust that those of us with the expertise up to that point no exactly what we are doing. that's work stream number two. they refer other cases to us. .e had many referrals we did not necessarily need to flag them out to the authorities but when they flags to us, we have individuals coming out of services,obation because of the arrangement we had, yes, we had to report back to them on these particular individuals how we are gauging -- howwhat's happening we are engaging and what's
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happening. we would also identify what they were looking at and look at it ourselves and deconstruct. >> looking at what question mark >> we would look at the very material they are looking at, the videos, the rhetoric. we would look at that and we would deconstruct it from the very first second to the end of that. here that implate share with you and we would engage with that and show him or her the futility of the propaganda to an nokia late them against that radicalization. what is comprehensive? we are not the all singing and dancing and do everything. we do what it says in the packet. we counter radicalized, we deconstruct, we are good at that.
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when we see the individual has moved away from this extremism, there are other social organizations, muslim groups, academic institutions, we then refer them to them knowing that what we have done has brought them away from extremism. these activities have to be working in tandem. they have to be parallel with why again and that's we say the muslim communities, you have to come and engage. statutory government agencies, bodies, you need to engage. the vacuum them becomes smaller. the gravitational pull becomes weaker. there is a joint up, multipronged approach that is now societal, not just on the religion. i hope that addresses the question. this one is for dr. wyatt. what is radicalization, nonviolent extremism? is it the same as discrimination like the u.s.?
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if blacks have to walk every day whether make that up -- or not an attack happened to them, what you say about that? it seems to be to questions. >> can you repeat them? what is radicalization and then what is nonviolent extremism? actually, these are both terms that i don't think have been well-defined in academia. nonviolent extreme is an is a term that was imported from england. i would like dr. baker to talk about that. then i will get back to the other part. what is nonviolent extremism? >> i mentioned david cameron coining this phrase.
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it referred to socially conservative individuals, muslims who did not necessarily subscribe to all british values. ande know, british values have on democratic values shift with the sands of time. some things that were frowned upon 20 or 30 years ago are no longer frowned upon. those of us who are traditionalists and adhere to some of the values that our parents had are now being told that those values are extreme in the cycle we are living in. nonviolent extremism addresses those particular individuals. it took a wide swath of muslims who are socially conservative. the sister or woman wearing an hijab is potentially a nonviolent extremist. i've got a frustration mark on my head, i am a nonviolent extremist. i should have no blemishes.
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these symbols of islam, the startedd such, the u.k. the terminology and descriptors around such individuals. nonviolent extremism exists. we had those are kept going to extremism. --y kept calling and agate an advocate extremism but they did not practice of themselves. we even fought against these individual so nonviolent activism is a term that can exist if it's restricted to the right parties. when is being used in the way it's been used in the u.k. and as i'm hearing over here, it's a very dangerous terminology. toas for radicalization, follow-up on that, radicalization is usually used for any aberration from the middle. either far to the right or far
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to the left would be considered to be radical. this is a question to both of you, how can there be greater ?ooperation >> you start. >> no, you start. [laughter] thank you. i think generally what we've got to look at -- this is wanting i've spoken to scholars about. cooperation in line with the verse in the koran, cooperate upon righteousness and piety. where thereoperate is a transgression. unfortunately, very groups have
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taken that to say that therefore we can only cooperate with those from our own mindset within those groups. i asked one of the scholars. is this correct? we come together as a society to work together on particular ills facing society. for example, terrorism. says weim organization cannot work together with everyone to fight the ills. i will question their understanding. with nuances and differences with groups, the question has to be -- in the the context environmental challenges you are facing? what do you come together on and work together on? from whatever walk of life we are in as muslims, we talk against that.
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ask where ismay the difference? there are theological differences, significant ones. you'll not see muslims come together. technologyuld be a and understood, however, that should not be the sole criteria to throw the baby out with the bathwater regarding the other social economic issues and academic issues i have just indicated in what i said that proceeded. i will ask you to elaborate more from a scholastic point of view based on the studies. fanirst of all, i am not a that, as iinology mentioned earlier, is very elastic and you have a broad spectrum of people who may refer to themselves with a certain title that is other than muslim or sunni.
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mention what other people may labor them so it's very say,cult for someone to what type of things can we cooperate on? mentioned, we have a very clear directive in the koran. that is that god has mandated us to work together for anything that constitutes piety. piety and righteousness. that is with anybody. that does not exclude muslim or non-muslim's. itself is ahe cause decent cause and the means to achieve that call of piety are legitimate in islam, then we work with those who are working for the cause. statement,with that
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can you give a brief overview of who isabdul ahab. sm? what iswahabi [laughter] >> he is seen as a religious reformer in saudi arabia. we will talk about what his message was. at the time in the geographical context with which he brought that message. , he basically referred back to essential tenets of the religion with regards to the unity of allah worship, with regard to practices of the prophet mohammed. beandated that that should
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the religious foundation of the faith that grew with saudi arabia. time, shrines are being worshiped. there were all sorts of things that had crept into the religion which many of the muslims will face today but they are not a part of it. practices that resemble deities,g other practices that resembled other religions that were not monotheistic. redirecto reform and the muslims particularly of that region to the worship of monotheism once again. wahabism is a pejorative term. it refers to the practice of those who follow celifism.
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it exist within saudi arabia? that's a different discussion. >> that wasn't the question. >> basically, that is the rudimentary -- i have given a rudimentary description of who he was and what he brought at that time. for me to go beyond that, i not qualified and i'm not a student in that particular field. one of the problems i would say quickly is that many of us, many individuals, phd's are otherwise, we don't stick to our lanes or specialities. phd, wewe have the think we know it were you talking about so we need to learn to stay within our lanes. as long as it's within the parameters i'm comfortable about , and have it have to be -- it
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would have to be someone to elaborate more. >> a very brief elaboration. understand the time in which he lived, he was a 12th-century scholar. reformer and there was no saudi arabia that particular time. it was just considered to be the arabian peninsula. >> thank you. >> what advice would you give -- >> 12th-century history -- i went blank. ago.s 200 some of years >> what would you say to people who live in rural areas regarding extremism? that's the questionnaire asking.
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as opposed to urban. what would you say to people who live in rural areas? i would take the context in terms of what we talked about previously, there seems to be a confluence of people enroll areas that subscribe more to a hate of muslims and people who live in the city because there is more interaction. i guess that's what they are asking. >> i will answer this question. i will not say anything to the people who live in rural areas. anything different than what i would say to anyone else. that is get to know a muslim. we do not have the ability to change the social engineering of the people of this country. the reality is that the media's generally controlled by five or six channels, if you will.
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we don't have the ability to thattively challenge broader social engineering. we do have the ability -- and i muslimy this to my brothers and sisters here and maybe listening is that we take part of that responsibility to engage society as a whole. we are part of the society. we are of the people. .hese are our people by the words of god himself and the koran, when he mentions the stories of all of the profits that proceeded with the seventh orpter or the third chapter the 11th chapter, when the stories of the profits are mentioned, they all address their people. they are not their followers. they all address them as my people. that being the case, we have a duty to our people to go and engage them and let them meet a muslim and let them talk to a
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muslim. humanize yourself. that is for the muslims. as for those who are not muslims, it's important that you take every effort to get to know the people who you may be scared of or have some apprehension about. >> just to add a little bit to that -- for us as muslims, we have a rich history of how islam spread and contrary to that narrative out there, it was not spread by thought. we as muslims, especially in the west like america, b i'm a bornrit and proud of it -- i am a born brit and proud of it that we need to see how we can be ambassadors of our faith. that's what we need. what's happening is there is a reluctance. those muslims living in a rural area engage even more.
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non-muslim colleagues who live engage even more. simply engagement and communication will remove some of the conflict we are seeing at the moment. hereere is another one that's a doozy. alease address the issue paki as this is often used by those who misunderstand islam and to say that muslims cannot be believed when they condemn extremism. someone is out there watching you now live on c-span pa saying this iskia. ok, >> first, it's important to perhaps defined the term takia for those who are not familiar. it basically means -- that is the practice of lying, it's a nice word for life.
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-- for lying. i'm going to explain what the simulation means for the rest of us who do not have a great vocabulary. basically, it is to believe one thing and say another thing. in my heart, for example, i don't believe anything i am saying but i want to trickle of the people who are watching on c-span or otherwise into believing that we are not radical or extreme and we want to fight extremism. this is what the term tafia means. as for those who believe that this is something that muslims are engaging in, i would just say that claim has absolutely no basis whatsoever in the foundations of our religion. readsomeone may come and
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text from shia sources that might talk about that. you will not find that talked sources sunni whatsoever and we are all sunnis on the panel so i rest my case. >> dr. wyatt said the majority of radicalization occurs based on political grievances rather than theological. ande have imperialism western involvement to blame for the rise of extremism in the last 50 years? >> that's a very complex question. this, if wesay think that islam itself is the cause -- islam by nature inherently is extreme or radical by nature, then we would have to look at certain other statistics and facts we have.
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the first mosque in this country was built in the united states when? does anyone know? 1929. that mosque is no longer standing but we do have a mosque that was built in 1934 that's still standing today. islam has continued to grow in this country both through converts to the religion and through people immigrating from other countries. muslims beingany charged with terrorist activities in this country until 1993. even then, we're not talking veout what a lot of people ha coined as homegrown terrorism, like the world trade center
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in 1993. a total of eight people died. of over 60 span years in which we had a consistent presence of muslims in this country but without any terrorist activities. if you look at canada, there is andmilar time frame likewise if you look in england. in the majority of the western countries. what is it that has led to this uptick in what we would call radicalization or extremism? does american or western foreign policy play a role in that? i'm sure that most of the studies that are out there that talk about why people become say this, to let's rephrase it, the tools that are used by those who are recruiting extremists and radicals, there
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is no doubt about it that they are using american foreign policy as a basis of their radicalization -- their recruitment tools. context ofr, in the the united kingdom, what is the difference between your approach versus quilliam? >> it has succeeded in one thing -- it's never happened with the muslims for longtime. that's uniting the muslims against them. because what they have done is that they are calling to every rhetoric and every statement that says to marginalize and criminalize the wider muslim body. you can look at the facts around that. what street has done, it's a
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, it's ans organization organic organization that developed according to the needs that we have academicg with empowerment. what we did with government layouts us to come to the table funding is reset to the government in the partnership we were holding that we would play a role in act as a anduit between government the audience we were targeting. why? because the government cannot reach those used in we're very concerned about them.
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where using draconian measures without any basis. this caused the further radicalization of the minority. we thank you don't need to do that. where therege, and are legitimate concerns regarding civics and responsibility, we will address them up until the point where it is criminality and you need to know about it. before that time we will engage with them and very is social, educational, and religious programs. you, it is for people, from people like them. some might say, -- i know they had some standing and reputation here. andll say that members -- one of them in particular is a long-standing associate of mine.
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we go way back. he was like a father to me. he acknowledged the difference and effectiveness of the work we to the audience they are targeting. audiences andent they're not interested in the muslim audience or community, despite the fact of them being located within the muslim communities. not representative of all or interested in representing them. a follow-up to that question, is their research to show that what you have done in with youran work association and be applicable here in the u.s.? >> i think more so because what we see here for my knowledge is not as acute.
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how integrated, i won't say -assimilated, how integrated the muslim communities are on a whole. in america, it is a lot better than the u.k.. t thenk the model -- i u.k.han uk. the i think the model is different. i have seen it between the prison service and the police. a lot of that works a lot more seamlessly than what we are having in the u.k. at the moment. >> this is for dr. wyatt. are there any accepted forms of the illogically-based political action? if so, please describe? >. again? i am not sure i understand
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the question. maybe the person who asked it can further elaborate. >> is the person who asked it here? can someone get him a mic? almost describe the intersection between the theologically based and the politically oriented. do you really think the only way that someone can be theologically based and politically oriented is to be an extremist jihadi?
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or think there are alternative forms for someone who is very based in the theology but very politically active? >> thank you for asking that. what i was saying is the violent extremists, that is a particular community. they proclaim or propose they are the ones who combined theological opinions as well as .he correct political humans and that is wrong. when you look at them theologically and the political and this divided the is them into four categories. -- back toquestion, your question, it is possible to
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have bowl but not in the way we are seeing these extremist entities are working. it is possible, we've seen when you look in egypt, we are seeing for the first time some of the entities entering the arena of politics. they felt the need whereas before, some of them were apolitical. yes, that is happening. whether that is the way to engage, i am not the one to say that. i cannot speak to all of those other contexts. away -- canthat the they do that and be away from the extremist community? of course they can. just add on to that question,
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just to further add to the answer that was given by dr. baker, from what i understand from the question, it is almost asking, can we be good muslims creed -- andnd still be involved for the struggle of the social justices. is that a misunderstanding of you were saying? i think it is important for us to realize there is nothing in islam that would prevent someone from being involved in struggles for social justice. in fact, it encourages us to be enjoin with those who are fighting for justice, as long as those means do not lead to a greater harm.
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that is something that is a broad principle in islam. that we don't do anything, even toit is something we deemed be good from the outside, if we have the believe it will lead to a greater harm. mic foretting the one more question. this is for which doctor? dr. wyatt. what would you recommend one to about honor killing in this country? >> of pay. we issues of extremism. there is no doubt honor killings are a form of extremism. however, they have nothing to do with islam. are, if you look from a statistical standpoint,
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they are being done in certain whether the world, those people ascribe to islam or any other religion. it is a cultural issue. i don't think it is prevalent here in the united said of america to my knowledge, but i am not an expert the issue of honor killings. i can say concretely it does not have its root in islam and it is a cultural thing being done by some muslims. we need to distinguish between those -- there are some things muslims do that have no relation to their identity as muslims but it has everything to do with their identity with their ethnic background. we will use the rest of the time to hear from deputy chief carol.
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we know he was called away on his urgent meeting but we are glad he is with us. we will turn the floor over to him to give a few remarks. any questions, please let the card. thank you very much for the invitation to talk to the group. this is an important topic. this weekend, there is an incident at the islamic center in minnesota. these talks are very timely. the effectremism and it have had here in the united states and internationally , isss the past two years ever evolving intake information in the community to work together and understand each other to resolve these issues. it is a very complex topic, and it is one we are still learning about and we are moving forward. >> are there any questions for the deputy chief?
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i'm sure we can get and mic so we can ask him. no? no mic? okay. do have a question, ma'am? >> i wonder, in america, and maybe some other countries, the racial profiling is a very big issue. discrimination is still a .roblem hiding of the raper is
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very serious. is there any study about this type of thing? as do you label muslims extremists? >> i think i understand your question. about grateful -- about racial profiling? absolutely. it is the problem here the united states. there are studies that have been done by a friday of research groups and universities out there. racial profiling is one of those things that comes back to the training we provide to the air officers. to prevent that, you have to have awareness of the communities that are out there. the things we do to try to prevent that is make it illegal to racially profile anyone. in youre understand
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ing you are communities, the less you'll profile people. we have to be aware of the biases to cut out racial profiling. it is a very serious issue, not only here in the u.s. but across the world. it is something you have to be on the lookout for. our goal is we deal for the local crime -- we deal with the local crime here in washington, d.c. all races andk at genders without looking at a bias. >> we have a few more minutes for dr. baker and dr. by -- dr. wyatt. how is it different are similar andhe u.s. and the u.k.,
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should the response be different or similar? >> to answer that question, we would have to agree that there drivers of extremism here in the united states. i am not sure we can say that is the case. again, we have had approximately, since 9/11 up until the most recent data, --re have been a process approximately 800 terror-related arrests in this country. these are not people, in general, who are perpetrating or driving and extremist ideology. there are people who have been on the receiving end who have been radicalized. don't see ofyou those 800 -- i don't have the data with me or in front of me, but if someone can go back and check this out. how many of those 800 were in the pulpits calling
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-- to extremist ideology an extremist ideology? are beingle radicalized online from cyberspace. it doesn't matter whether they are in england or the united states of america. from that perspective, i would say there is not much difference. england has had a different history with allowing extremists permeate in society for longer periods of time, as dr. baker mentions in his presentation, throughout the 90's you have the big names who were there and preaching extremist ideology and were prng countered by muslims
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imarily who did not agree with their rhetoric. we did not have that same experience at such an acute level. i would say the scenes were being planted during the 90's. that is something that was very clear to us. were being planted. when 9/11 happened, it was shocking. were we surprised? no. reidwe realized richard was caught were we surprised? no. -- when therific horrific murder took place in 2015, he was on our radar. due to a changing government from the labor to the conservative coalition, funding .ad been cut because
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explicitly,say this but it was implicit. it affected all youth intervention programs. we set up a particular time, not only were the seeds being planted, but they were aware of individuals traveling abroad. some tried to get to somalia. one was arrested in kenya and deported back to we have to look at something very carefully. these were seekers and they had been radicalized. what further push them was when the intelligence services would meet them and invite them to sign up and subscribe and become part of the apparatus. there was a two-pronged approach. none every incidence, but that is usually what happens. when he came back t
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from kenya, he was approached. some of them distance themselves so they were given this label because it became very well known that they had been approached. it accelerated to some extent there halfway toward filing radicalization. i want to talk about trajectories, pathways. when this man did the horrific act he did, but this much of this will be a new pathway of violence. not suicide bombing, but this. lo and behold, we had to witness withather is an of isis what they were doing with reporters and individuals in syria. i have to come back to this. ,ommunity, stature
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partnership is essential. canhat we have is muslims show the expertise at a community level with partners and otherxpertise areas like policing and the like. it needs to be done so that these trajectories we have spoken about in these grievances that are rising without being effectively challenged can be challenged comprehensively. question, then we have a summation. chief, of you and the what role of any -- what role if any can k-12 education play in the education of radicalization? >> good question. they're looking at that and the u.k., as well.
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i think if they integrate the religious curriculum and there is a sharing in that curriculum of the various fates, which am sure there is to an extent, and if these faiths are able to bring in experts from the community to articulate aspects of their faith, not just muslims, christians, jews, all of them, if this starts all the way through the students will have a sense of identity as americans, they will be proud in their sense of identity religiously, and they will see identities -- there is a symbiotic relationship between them. they are not mutually exclusive, their inclusive. included at the kindergarten level continuously throughout, i think there will be more balanced u.s. individuals who are comfortable with their identity and know how
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to contextualize it within society. that.ill piggyback on want to say a proper understanding of religion excludes is extremism extremism. of proper understanding islam and of primary sources is something that automatically protects against extremism. talking about islamic schools, when we are talking k-12, i don't think we are having radicals that come out of islamic schools, especially because the curriculum are teaching is slammed the way it should be teaching islam the
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way it should be taught. i think we need to find if a person is becoming radical and engage them in the space they are and. they are not becoming radical in schools. in theecoming radical spaces they created for themselves online, and we need access to those spaces so we can engage them one on one. >> i agree with dr. baker and dr. wyatt. is the key component. if you start out with education and work your way through, is there a true understanding of what is going on? for all cultures and all faiths. different variety of things out there that affect us here in the united states and internationally. making sure people have the appropriate context and truthfulness that will take some time to work at that curriculum
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and have the understanding of what these religious truly mean to each other and -- what these religions truly mean and how they interact with each other. we work with people with different religions every day. i think understanding someone's background will help to break down the radicalization. a lot of this is happening online, and that is a difficult arena to focus on an address. a key component would be education and getting the children to understand. we see a lot of times with organizations that are tried to ruth out there, they start with children and try to indoctrinate that. i think we should do the opposite. >> we have one minute for each of you to have a summation. , we will start with you. >> i want to reiterate the
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importance of having a comprehensive, multilayer approach in which we remove the inuum that currently exists society because of a failure of us as communities, as agencies to engage in a strategic to tackle this problem of violent radicalization. i want to say, we're talking historically about a number of things. nationsthe united counterterrorism report regarding the foreign fighters in syria. we have seen this since the early 90's. there is likely to be blowback now that isis is an demised geographically. that is it. we may have shut down the region, but ideologically they have not been shut down.
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those that held in their heart this was the atomic state, are state, are-- islamic very upset. their battle cry hasn't gone away. there is urgency into what we are discussing. please keep that in mind. this report came out very recently. talking about the characteristics of those who will be coming back. and wethis in the 90's saw it building up and then we had the blowback at 911. there's likely to be blowback from what happened from the so-called islamic state. we take this seriously. >> one minute? all right. ourselves ase view medical practitioners in a
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sense. mindsooking at people's and souls. what we want to do is prevent. we believe the best medicine is prevention. we want to prevent people from ever having a misunderstanding or an extreme understanding or ideology as it relates to their understanding of islam. we also recognize that no matter how much we see prevention but some people will become diseased. they will be infected by extremism and radicalization and, therefore, that is our job we see to help those people be treated. what you talked about today and what we will talk about their of the day are different approaches.
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one of the main approaches we find to be effective is actively those who have been , not by shooting information at them or giving them one liners or videos they can watch the help deconstruct their ideas. trainieve we will have to who or hundreds of people can look at what it is they are doing, what verses they are .ooking at from th to look at then reconstruct those arguments and engage in these people and their space. >> from a law enforcement perspective, i think it is very
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important to look at this and build a community where we are sharing information. if you do not have the foundation built within the likeic community, it is but we do with any other community out there. we also work with community groups. we build the foundation where we all feel comfortable sharing that information so if there are indicators that don't seem right, that individuals feel safe and comfortable talking to law enforcement so we can follow up on that. i think it is important to understand we have to build trust at a law enforcement contact. up, wetremists do pop are already aware and already built a relationship without having to go through and make the initial motions. just a follow-up on that
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it is very important that there is a partnership and not a control. there's a trust, not just from the side of the community from -- to law enforcement, but also law enforcement trusts us to do our job, which is to engage those ideologies to the point that we think we've done everything we can do. the trust has to be mutual. >> good point. let me think the panelists for coming today. also think the religious freedom center for hosting this conference. we want to go through housekeeping notes. we're preparing for lunch at the courtesy of the religious freedom center. we would like for you to finish 12:30 to be back seated so we can start by 1:00.
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we will see you in an hour.
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>> back to the conversation on fighting extremism in about an hour. we will bring you back your life when things resume. take a look at some news from members of congress. most are away from capitol hill. they sent out a statement saying he and other house democrats are visiting israel and the palestinian territories. they met with the israeli prime minister. their trip to reaffirm the united states'unbreakable bonds with israel. we will take a look of some of our primetime programming. rob reineright when sits down to talk about threats
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to american democracy posed by russia, part of the annual politicon conference in pasadena, california. >> tonight, on the communicators. we are at the black hat conference in las vegas with jeff moulton. >> the hospitals are being attacked almost daily. whackeds are getting almost daily. we will not eliminate this threat. we have to learn to live with it. they never eradicated the flu virus. we learned to live with it. you do certain things when you know you are exposed and the flu is going around, get a shot, isolate yourself from other folks who have the flu. measures hygienic
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you take in the physical world. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. c-span. where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service. it is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. >> the president of iran was sworn in for a second term before a gathering of dignitaries for more than 100 countries. he talks about the nuclear agreement with the u.s. signed two years ago and accused the u.s. for not adhering to its obligations. to defendged europe the agreement.


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