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tv   1939 New York City Nazi Rally  CSPAN  February 29, 2020 8:55pm-10:01pm EST

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directive, no company can get a contract unless its policies are nondiscriminatory. >> don't we have one negro on the production line? >> that is not enough. >> watch reel america america tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span3. >> a night at the garden is a seven minute academy award nominated film showing parts of the 1939 nazi rally in new york city's madison square garden. next, a screening of the film at the new york historical society, followed by a discussion and how it relates to current events. [applause]
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>> good evening, everyone. welcome to the new york historical society. i am new york historical's president and ceo. i am thrilled to see so many of you here in our beautiful robert h. smith auditorium. an infamousogram, nazi rally, 1939, as part of our distinct speakers series. i would like to thank mr. swartz for his generous -- for his generosity to bring so many speakers to this base. [applause] i would also like to recognize and thank a number of trustees who joined us this evening. i would like to recognize our herr and thank pam for truly outstanding work on behalf
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of this institution. ournt to depart from trustees to recognize pam's husband scott. we had three programs this evening, and he has been to two of them. i would also like to recognize susan, andbin, slightly departing from our trustees, i want to recognize a great friend of this institution, the head of the carnegie foundation. he is known as president of brown, head of the public library, and all sorts of other things. he is known to us as a great friend. thank you for joining us. [applause] louise: this evening's program
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lasts about an hour and will include a screening of the short film "a night at the garden" and question and answer session. you should have received a notecard and pencil. my colleagues are going up and down the aisles. the note cards with your questions will be collected later on in the program. we are truly honored to welcome marshall back to the new york historical society this evening. he is a director, cinematographer, and editor. he has been nominated for an academy award four times, including this year for his live-action short. his other oscar-nominated films include cory booker's first run for mayor of new work, new journey -- new jersey, a story that chronicles the radical environmental group, and "a night at the garden," the
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subject of tonight's discussion. his films won top honors at the sundance and tribeca film festivals. we are also delighted to welcome our moderator this evening, and welcome him back to new york historical. he has worked for the new york times for three decades as a foreign correspondent, for in editor, and now columnist. he previously worked for the wall street journal and reuters. he writing earned him a lifetime achievement author of numerous books, including his latest, a memoir, entitled the girl from human street, ghosts of memory in a jewish family. tells me he's working on a novel now, so we have something to look forward to, i hope, soon. as always, i want to ask you thatyou please make sure
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anything that makes a noise like a cell phone is switched off. now, before -- just before we welcome our speakers to the screen theill nominatedard documentary short, "a night at the garden." the film runs about seven minutes. thank you. ♪[music]
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♪[music]
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[cheering] >> undivided allegiance to the the united states of america and the republic for stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [cheering]
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>> ladies and gentlemen, fellow americans, american patriots, i do not come before you tonight as a complete stranger. me.all have heard of press, as a creature harm, alarm tales. with american ideals, demand that our government shall be peopled to the american who founded it. [cheering]
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[crowd noise] ♪[singing] [star-spangled banner]
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♪ the land of the free ♪ and the home of the brave ♪ [cheers and applause] ♪[music]
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>> good evening, everybody. marshall, i remember when i documentary.
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and i was in a state of shock. such a state of shock that i promptly wrote a column about it. you know, this happened in new york city. no idea. in it, was it hard to unearth? hidden forffect been seven, eight decades? sitting there? >> so i didn't know about it either. i'd never heard of it. in fact, i was at dinner with a friend of mine, who is a screenwriter. and he was -- he was telling me that he was working on a screen that takes place in new york in 1939. and that this rally had happened. and i didn't believe him when he told me actually. i thought surely this was would have heard about. i went to college. this is american. this sort ofw
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thing. so i went home that night and looked it up. right.ough, he was not only that, there were some historical documentaries that little five-second clips of the rally. i thought, if there's five there'sof this thing, got to be a lot more than that. archivist, who is also a friend, and said, could you dig around and see if you footagend where this is? turned out that there was some of it in the national archive ucla's archivein and grinburg. places.d in a bunch of the national archive even had had never been scanned high-def before. got field of vision, which company, sort of financier, to give us the money. and we got all of the footage. and once i saw the footage, i oh, my gosh, we need to
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share this with people. of why thisquestion isn't thing that everybody knows about, it's not our proudest time. a story that we should be proud of. you know -- >> no. think that it was sort once worldaside, war ii started. likee kind of pretended these kinds of ideas had never had any purchase in america, they had. >> was it the current drift of political events in the united states that inspired you to make this movie? see parallels? >> yes. thoughte footage and i this unfortunately seems -- elements of this feel familiar to me. know, i think that
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demagoguery is something that we're seeing all around the world. i mean, in brazil, in the philippines, in parts of europe, in venezuela. and in the united states. and we're seeing people who use playbook that is -- that predates this by 2,000 years. and it is to attack independent press.rs, the to scapegoat minority groups. to wrap your ideology in the of patriotism. >> well, the charlottesville, the crowd -- whe in 2017, when chantinghe crowd was "jews will not replace us," the you know, as we all know, responded that there were fine people, fine people on both sides. >> right. >> what do you think about that? mean, onee of the, i
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of the things about the drift totalitarian rule is that it is a drift and every human capacity forimited outrage. and when outrage fatigue sets begins tohe field clear for the demagogue to move his -- and it is always a man, it seems -- with his program. >> yeah. i mean, i think one of the things that was so shocking to footage, wasw this anti-semitice were leaders. there's always going to be sort element.ge but to see the crowd. that was what shook me. to see 20,000 new yorkers who -- i'm a new yorker. these are my neighbors. nice -- that they were
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>> same as in nuremburg. >> to see them. withdropped off their kids the babysitters and they put on suits and hats and they went to and just sort of laughed and cheered as the spectacle unfolded in front of them. and to me, that was the thing that i really felt was so that thereout it, is are regular people who can be into ideas like this. and there are good people who when they see it. remindingoped that by people of what happened in 1939, thingsese kinds of happened, that, you know, it sharpen ourf sensitivities today. bit about a little the jew who charges up on stage
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and says, ok, maybe you guys are all gonna sit here. not. i am not going to sit here and listen to this. and get theo try leader of bund off the stage, throw him off the stage. conscience.of it's a brave act because there were 20,000 people there who were hostile to what he was right? who was he and what became of him? and why have we not heard more him? >> he was a jewish plumber's assistant from brooklyn who just went that night. was not planning on trying to disrupt the event. see what waso going on. and was so outraged by what he feltearing that he just like he had to go out on stage and try to do something. was arrested that night. a fine theto pay next day. it was a fine for disturbing the peace. pay a $25 fine, which was
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inconsequential then. and at his sentencing, the judge to him, don't you realize that someone could have been hurt from what you did? and he said, don't you realize that someone could be hurt from was being said up on stage? what's gonna happen? ini think he said some jews europe could be hurt or elsewhere by that. out to be sixrned million. >> there's something so chilling event beingthis killings hadf the begun. and to have a snapshot of what is like, none of the people probably in that room -- almost the world could have imagined what was about to unfold. unfold.it did there's something so emotionally powerful to me about thinking and saying,ife
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where are we going? greenbalm, he ended up joining the military. was in world war ii. interviewed bys people who said, you know, how you summon the courage to go out on stage? and he said, gee, what would you have done? the fact is that most people in such situations will be bystanders. the one who decides that people or whenknow about this, i was in berlin covering barracks was renamed for sergeant schmidt, who almost lithuania had witnessed the mass killings of jews and had decided to try to help them. was promptly executed. but he where to his wife, much like that, that he could not act
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much differently, that he just physically could not. people whose consciences will not be quieted. film's funny, when the came out, his grandson got in touch with me. we'd been talking about whether would be some way of isador greenbalm, a park named after him or like that. >> and there's nothing. >> no. forgotten to history. couple of slides. there's a photo of him from later. i'm going to jump through. >> this is the article from the new york times of when tbrm was -- when greenbalm was fined. t stars and stripes, the a profileagazine, did of him during world war ii and somehow the story became that he landed a punch on fritz kuhn
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before being taken out. >> such a good story. in thean, the attack documentary, i mean, kuhn takes the bund leader, at the jewish controlled press. the failingt's new york times, it's the fake news, new york times. people,mies of the we've heard from the white house several times, which is a phrase pure totalitarian pedigree. how worrying do you see these attacks on the press? >> once you give up the ability facts, then your
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ability to negotiate differences of opinion become impossible. very frightening, i think. >> because there in the movie, people all these saluting the image of washington, and then next to it, there's the swastikas. >> right. >> which those swastikas in that negationre a complete of everything that we stand for as americans, of freedom, of a press, checks and balances, independent judiciary. >> right. >> and there you have it, right? ourhe first amendment of constitution is respect for religious minorities, respect for the press, respect for the to protest. an event that is front as a pro-america rally, could disrespect all of those institutions so violently. >> perhaps you could show some the new york times' coverage,
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the rally.n you know, we -- i'll say we. play it kind of right down the middle. sense of outrage. was a rally. this was said. greenbalm tried to stop it. went before a magistrate. the magistrate said to him, well, you behaved irresponsibly. people could get hurt. made this comment about, well, a lot more people could get hurt in europe if you thing.his kind of there is absolutely nothing in the piece, as i read it, in you could detect any whatsoever of the paper. course, press -- the times's great failings
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in covering the holocaust. know, thatsee, you copy? how did it strike you? >> i will say, one of the wonderful things about having a new york times subscription, is digital access through their website of every newspaper that they've ever printed. now you have no excuse, ok? >> and it can be a rabbit hole find something that you're interested in, because just to see the juxtapositions articles and to see, you know, the advertisements next to is insidee, so this the inside. and there's a little bit more, a bit more depth here. and in fact, they cover it again a little bit as well. but you're right. news.asically report the and though they do include points of view, strong points of view, in quotes throughout. and that was also something that interesting about
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feltebate over this event extremely contemporary. bigan, there was a question. should this kind of thing be permitted? and one of the leading jewish groups said, these people are anti-semites. they're anti-democratic. but the difference between the united states and fascist germany is that, in america, idiots are allowed to say what they think. mayor laguardia sort of dismissed the whole thing with a sort of humors sneer where he said that the gathering that night was the largest assembly of international cooties ever under one roof. in the way that you sunlight.es is with so we're gonna let them say what they think and we're gonna righteousnessith
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and truth. were, also tore be fair, people who said, ok, in america you can say what you want. but should you be given madison square garden as the place to be it? to say which i think kind of mirrors a that aree debates happening on college campuses and places like that, where you can saysure, what you want, but show be money?you know, school should you be given a school to say these things? just even the subtleties of the now,e that we're having were happening in 1939. >> tell us a little bit about bund.appened to the what happened to this movement? did it fizzle quickly or not? >> it -- you know, it never was a mainstream movement. it was always a little bit fringe.
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but if you have a rally where 20,000 people show up, you know lot more people than that who support your more who sortven of passively accept it. and i think that that is -- the real lesson of this fatheras that you had coughlin, whose comments on the favor of mussolini and hitler were reaching 30 million peoplens and you had like henry ford and lindbergh who were sympathetic fascism.emitism and at they were never probably majority point of view. but they were accepted. discourse off the normal people. and i think what happened is when world war ii happened and suddenly, you know, this is '39, couple morel a bombslater before japan
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pearl harbor and we get involved in world war ii. that happened, and people with swastikas started killing american kids, i think decided this was not an acceptable point of view not --, and it was >> and it took that? >> and it took that to get to that point. they had power. they didn't just have this event. 86th street this is on october 30. big rally on 86th street. in new jersey and pennsylvania, out to wisconsin. come. camps for kids to and it was frighteningly still relatively
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fringe. i think partly it was fringe because it was german. and so, you know, you can even hear, fritz kuhn has this german are probably ae lot of people who didn't whoicularly like germans, weren't gonna be lured into joining that. but that also is another thing that's so frightening about this kind of movement today, is that it's so american. they know how to navigate the internet. know how to be sarcastic and funny and mean in these ways that -- you said, the movement today, what exactly are you referring to? mean, just sympathetic to fascism and all of it, you know, anti-semitism or or just destructive of america's social fabric, checks and of balances, destructive of the press. that they have --
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saying frommous this time period that when fascism comes to america, it have a stamp on it that says "made in germany." have swastikas. it won't even be called fascism. it will be called americanism. and that is -- >> that is where we are. >> that's the warning. yeah. >> yeah. i mean, it's striking again that fritz kuhn calls for united states to be returned to its essence, which he describes as white, gentile america, against the subversion of the jews. and today we have attacks on brown people. mexicans ascks on rapists. we have attacks on muslims. and in a way, perhaps you can happeningof what is in our country as a white
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reaction against the demographics of the 21st century. so, again, do you -- i don't but to push this too far, do you see parallels of that kind? >> i do. i mean, i don't want to -- i the film.e to watch there's a reason that it doesn't i don't cutes, that back and forth between modern politics. i want people to look at it openly and say to themselves, is there something in here that me?s familiar to and if so, is there something that i could be doing about that? >> what about the counterargument, you know, we're up here chatting. the new york times is still around. we just announced record results. are intact.ions three years into the current presidency. even begin to to worry along the lines that we're
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doing right now up here on stage far-fetched and probably viewe who take a different fachuos. >> i think those were the conversations they were having in 1939. in fact, there were protesters handing out flyers. had a scan of it. but we'll put it on our website. online ats anightatthegarden.com. the pamphlet that people were now, beforesaid act the camps get out of control or some phrase like that. when i saw it, i thought, u bet people thought these people were handing thesee out. i bet they were seen as fringey fanatics, making a big hoopla
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kooky, tiny group, talking about death camps. camps.is gonna do death it's not to say that that is our future, but we don't know what our future is. things could have been different in the united states, if roosevelt wasn't the president, were --apanese roosenfelt, as they called him. >> if japanese had not bombed harbor, we could have easily skated through and not gotten involved in world war ii world would be very different. you know, there's phillip rothbuck, the plot against america, which has just been made into either a film or a i'm not sure -- on hbo that i saw the trailer for. few people have sent me the trailer, because it from couple of shots in it the rally. it'so -- and, you know,
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counter-factual history. it's what could. but that's what we know of history, is history is made by don't doo do things or things. and when lots of people do things or don't do things, history goes this way or it goes that way. it's written by us. >> what sort of reaction did you big-- did you get a reaction? i know there was a column in the new york times. [laughter] >> other than that. >> was there the sort of wonderment, incredulity, and preoccupation that assailed me when i watched it. feel that this was a widespread -- that people were significantst on a scale? >> i think they were. it up -- our goal initially was just get this into the world. we want people to see this
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story. that's one of the reasons we made it short. people to be able to watch it on the internet and send it to somebody and say, you spend seven minutes and watch this thing. and we encouraged people to pirate it. it on youtube and facebook and anywhere that wanted it. them to get itor out. it's my goal that this footage be like the footage of, being hosedtivists in the south. everybodythat is -- has seen in america that's a part of every high school in america.s and is not a condemnation -- shown in any high schools? >> i think it is, yes. yes, i've heard from schools that are showing it. and it isn't a condemnation of things that we've done in the is a warningas it for the future. love for it to
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continue to find more and more audiences. >> we've spoken a couple times about checks and balances. this week, the president was acquitted. the supreme court is what it is today. do you feel that these checks balances are still firmly intact? >> i hear mu mumblings of no. >> yeah. it feels like we are letting the sand run through our hands. and not taking seriously the threats that are facing our institutions. i remember that you asked what happened to fritz kuhn in the end. eventually, once world
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war ii started, he was arrested fromaving embezzled money the bund. [laughter] >> surprise, yeah. >> we don't want to overdue the parallel. [laughter] he -- and eventually the bund was shut down. hisas actually stripped of citizenship and deported to germany after world war ii, ultimately in obscurity there. one other interesting thing was that hitler want the bundot to be too active in the united states. and fritz kuhn billed himself as führer.ican but hitler understood that it his advantage to be able europe withoutin
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awakening america to the threat. knew that if fritz kuhn was having events like this, and was writing times articles about it and people were showing up to protest it, more likely that america would stand up to him. so i thought that was interesting. >> i think we're going to take here.uestions on, the united states rebuilt the world, rebuilt the architecture of the world and has been, for all our failings, knows we have a lot of failings, but the united states has been a kind of moral arbiter. counterweight to those who wanted to move in a direction, those who were grossly abusiving human rights, those who didn't care a free press, those who
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didn't believe in what we enshrined and what is in the constitution. right now the united states, in view,ole, at least in my has gone awol. it just isn't there. really mind what muhammad bin salman does or on in moscow or just about anywhere. how serious is that? >> i find it serious. upsetting. i mean, i'm not a -- i'm a filmmaker. [laughter] >> that's no excuse. yes, i am very concerned about the direction of the country. on i hope to shine light places where people aren't paying attention. >> great. handed a few questions.
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and the first one i have in how do you think the people who attended the reacted when the united states declared war on germany? >> an interesting question. only guess asd much as anybody in this room could guess. the unitedthat when states did declare war, and whoe were a lot of people probably hid their pamphlet of the thing that they got at the rally that night, the program from the rally. oh, thisthey thought, is not ok anymore. but, of course, ideas don't disappear so quickly. you know, you can say these are unacceptable and people will stop talking about them. and sometimes i think that's an step.ant but i think it would be foolish think that, you know, as soon
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as world war ii began, suddenly sympathy for these kinds of ideas just somehow vanished. it couldn't be. >> do you know if there were any government attendees at this rally? prominent any nongovernment attendees? >> i don't know the answer to that. i don't know whether there if there feel like were prominent attendees, the new york times would have written about it. [laughter] yeah. there were -- i'm not sure. >> ok. americans put in internment camps like japanese americans? one of the, interesting things about the fritz kuhn story that he had a citizenship stripped from him and was sent back, is that i found myself, as a liberal,
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feeling a little bit mixed about that. i thought, good, that -- he should have been sent away. and on the other hand, i thought, hmm. a system where somebody from anther country, who is american citizen, who says an unpopular idea can have his citizenship stripped, not a system. so i don't know. feeling of strange when appreciation and fear i heard that. >> and do you know the specific question?the >> of the internment camp? internmentw about camps. >> i'm not sure either. >> sounds like somebody does. does.be somebody how did the government -- how react to.s. government american sympathy for naziism? something like this rally? >> i mean roosevelt spoke out
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aggressively against it and was targeted by them as well. pretty aggressively. so, you know, he was a very outspoken leader on that topic. were othert there people, and mayor laguardia as well. i think that there were leaders up and said, this is not american values. these are not our american values. but i think that there were lots folks who were more -- tried to thread the needle a little bit. people who may not have agreed with all of the ideas, want to upset potential voters and, you know, wanted to people in their camp. >> do you think people at the rally were specifically drawn mored german naziism or generally to white supremacy? largelynk it was german.
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so the group was the german-american bund, and there lot of it was about germany. but i don't think it ended with that. it was a wider thing. you know, one of the things, making the film, that iwas trying to do -- when first had the idea to make a film, i thought i would have theorians explain background. and instead, just kind of one me justi decided, let see what this would be like if i editt like i cut a -- if i it like i edit a documentary dropped into ast world and you have no explanation for what it is and you're just trying to figure out on. is going so i tried to build it with a series of -- to prompt a series of questions from the audience that then are undercut. so, you know, it begins with this strange crowd gathered. it's aling outside says
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pro-america rally. you get inside and you think, oh, i see american flags. this must be some sort of event.ic but wait. are those swastikas i see there? it'syou think, oh, wait, 1939, so maybe the swastika didn't have the same significance that it does now. gets up on stage and begins saying the things that he said. think, oh, no, that crowd is reacting positively to those things. but maybe that's just, you know, spectacle. were -- there's a big difference between an idea and seeing actual violence. if actualhese people, violence was laid out in front of them, would recoil. a protester runs out on savagely beaten. and the pan across the crowd of people laughing and cheering found when i- i was watching this footage that i kept wanting to make excuses for the audience. tried to edit it in a way
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that sort of systematically those excuses until you are creatures that can be swayed. can have dark passions whipped up in if us. there's a shot that i noticed in the background of one of the frames, ofne of the a little boy who is watching isadore greenbalm getting beaten up and he rubs his hands together and does this sort of jig. it says so much about the beings, theuman thrill of being in a mob and having this kind of thing, you up in us.red so that shot, i actually zoomed shot to trymed that to highlight him in there. look of complete terror stup efaction on
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face.alm's it reminded me of the famous of the jewish boy, just that dismay, terror. a pretty radical artistic decision to cut everything but the footage. you edit my next book? [laughter] also a i did it, i was little bit worried that people -- that, you know, the of alt right would use this to say,paganda tool look at this glorious time when america knew our values and did great events. >> was there any of that? >> there was a little bit. but, you know, one of the -- as a filmmaker, you have tools in your tool belt. know, the sound design
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and the music that i used was intentional to even though there's no academic who is expressing a point of view, the film has a point of view. and so the original music, when is thismarching in, upbeat,m, marshal, music. i had this drone. >> you -- >> yeah. i was. i thought of it for sure. i thought of it. at i just thought there was power in dropping an audience noo this event with explanation and just saying, hey, what do you notice? >> well, it's -- it's extremely think.l, i because you are a bit lost at the beginning. voyage ofiature discovery and very powerful for that. here which --ion
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i don't know what the reference is. camps, longmment on island? >> i can't. a bund -- >> yeah. think that there were a number of bund camps, sort of like the ones here. and, yeah, they were in wisconsin, new jersey, pennsylvania. and all the way out to placesnia, there were where they had similar gatherings. >> and this gets back to the making about the afterion of fritz kuhn the war. a similar point about the of liberalism and free speech. somebody asks, although i that this happened, does the free speech and assembly allow such rallies? >> i think that was the debate
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they were having. my debate is, yes, people should to say things like this. i think there's questions about of -- what sorts institutions should give people platforms to say things like this. of i think that was a lot what was being debated at the time. a new yorkbe there's times -- oh. is -- on the 80th the rally, of february 29 of last year, we did a projection on the outside of a loop square garden, on of the film. it was pretty extraordinary to up people walk by and look and, of course, madison square garden now is in a different place than it was in 1939. was a different location. of the sort of iconography the most famous arena in the world being used for this. was a powerful event of new
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yorkers just walking by and and saying, what is that? what happened? people were given out leavelets to ex -- leaflets to explain the history of what happened. erie was this sort of sense of -- eerie sense of ghosts coming from 1939, out of walls to warn us. shouldhall, how outraged we be when presidential candidates call working class deplorables, and when presidents talk disparagingly bibleseople with their and guns? >> ah. could get into a -- we could spend the night discussing that. ofbe -- one thing, in terms sort of correcting historical records, the deplorables line, anybody reads the deplorables line, the point that hillary clinton was making was not that who supports donald
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trump is a deplorable. in fact, she was making exactly opposite point. she said that many of the people aret of the good, hardworking, decent being, you know, who are being -- who are attracted to what he's saying. group that she called the basket of deplorables, but she was very clear to differentiate between a growm -- a group of people who i think everybody would agree, there are people who support all these deplorable.ho are i mean, the people in charlottesville are deplorable. that's not controversial. so just -- i think it's important for us, you know, particularly as lovers of sure thato make statements that are taken out of accepted ast become a mainstream understanding of politics. >> i think the deeper, perhaps
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deeper -- lying deeper in that question is the question, do we liberals in new york just fail the countryest of and what's going on in it? and why, you know, half the seems soore or less close to, you know, 40% to 50%, ae what's going on in radically different way? >> i mean, i live in new york. but i used to live in north carolina. my parents are from south carolina. many friends who are trump supporters, who i disagree documentaries.e i'm curious about why people do what they do and think what they think. genuinely curious about that. i think that's important to understand for sure. so i -- around anough to sit dinner table in new york -- >> and sneer at people, for sure. yeah, i think it's
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incredibly important to why americans think what they think and believe what they believe. i don't think that that should the conversation either, though. >> no. do you know who shot the footage? reminiscent --es and this gets back to what i said -- do you see images of lenny?t >> yes. think lenny famousll is the filmmaker who shot nuremburg and films. nazi propaganda as far as i understand, the footage of the protests outside were shot by newsreels. but the footage inside was shot by the bund themselves. assume, youning, i know, there are many different camera allegation where they -- where they were shooting expensive film. a trivial matterjust
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to film this much footage from this many perspectives. tossume they were planning make a lenny type triumph of about how exciting the bund was. >> somebody has quoted sinclair lewis, saying, quote, when comes to the united states, it will come with the cross, wrapped in the flag. is this dire warning as true now as it was then? >> i mean, like i said, the struck me so much about this footage was the use patriotic symbolism, iconography of flags and the of allegiance, which incidentally, a lot of people was noted that under god not part of the pledge of allegiance. that wasn't added until the 1950's. was not part of the
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original pledge of allegiance. bundsn't just because the left it out. it was actually an addition that came later. of yes, i mean, that was one the things that really struck thewas george washington, pledge of allegiance, star-spangled banner, all of used to sellcan be ideologist that are -- are against our constitution and most people's american values. >> one more. who owned madison square garden and gave permission for the rally? [laughter] >> that is a question i should off the tip of my tongue and i don't. yeah. >> and one thing i have thought lot about over the last few ofrs is the whole question truth. and, you know, obviously in the movie you see wild propaganda, this takeover. and truth has been a casualty of
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torrent of either outright lies or misrepresentations coming out of the white house and this administration. but it's also true that, you of the country thinks that right now, this is president that the united states has ever had. why? because he tells it like it is. and he does exactly what he said whether it's iran, or moving the embassy to jerusalem. you have half the country that thinks it's absolutely obvious that this is the most president ever, and a big chunk of the country that thinks he's the most honest. question of truth a kindt is true, there's of unbearable lightness, to days andout life these
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nothing seems so much gravity -- by the end of january, the fact that we almost went to war with iran, has been more or less forgotten. three weeks have elapsed and it's gone. so how did we -- last question. did we reach this point, this dangerous point in my view, distinction between truth and falsehood is in danger of disappearing? >> i think like all these erosion.t's a slow er range of it's tiny chips. each one of them doesn't seem on its own. suddenly you wake up and you're in a different place. >> well, thank you very much. you, marshall. [applause] good good evening, everyone. i'm dale gregory. we want to thank you, marshall curry, roger cohen, this evening
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for the work that you both do. there won't be a book signing to invitet we want everyone back to more programs. our auditorium filled. do to'll try as we always give everyone something to think about. so thank you so much. let's give them another big hand. [applause] >> sunday, on american visit to the seminole nation museum in oklahoma. the descendants of the ancestors that were brought as the west.of war, to and i just want you to know that even though seminoles are overalled with the indian removal act of the 1830's in what's known as the trail of tears, our people, our males shackled in chains and brought to the west as prisoners
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of war. artifacts,erican sunday at 6 p.m. eastern on american history tv. on c-span 3. unsunday, on american history historian talks about his lands,lock lives, native white worlds, a history of slavery in new england." preview. >> while there were not large numbers of slave people in new england per se, the entire economy revolved around what historians call the business of slavery. the selling of provisions to the plantations, the transportation of enslaved people throughout the americas but also the transatlantic slave trade. the entire economy revolved around enslavement. of new england by the name of mark peterson just
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published this giant book on boston. i think he phrased it pretty well when he said boston was a society where most of the enslaved people lived elsewhere. that's what we could say for new england as a whole. demographics, i push back against getting caught up in the demographics, for these reasons i just explained, but also the way in which you see white new englanders eagerly embrace slave trading by the late 17th century. they embrace slave trading especially from africa as a form commerce. rhode island, the colony of rhode island, became the center ofslave trading in all british north america. if you take all the slave voyages from the colonial the coloniesall that became the united states, and you added them up, they would not equal those of rhode island. rhode island is, by far, the the british north
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american slave trade. it actually rivals those of the indies as well. so it's an extensive slave trading, central to the economy of the colony. slavery inre about new england, this sunday at 6:55 p.m. eastern, here on american history tv. monday night, on the communicators, consumer association president gary shapiro talks about political ads on social media platforms. he's interviewed by bloomberg government reporter rebecca kern. think it's a fair burden to put on a company like youbook or others, to say have to make this decision. i think there should be a way of dealing with that that doesn't editorial judgment. but that's not for me to say. that's not for congress to make a decision on. respecting make one the first amendment, because it hasn't gotten a lot of respect lately. traditionalthe media, who are jumping up and
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down, saying that's unfair, that media, the first amendment protects everyone. it affects political speeches, well.ok's rights as we have to be really careful, because the first it is being torn up by traditional media. thes being torn up, and first amendment is so central to who we are as a nation, i would hate to see it eroded. >> what's the communicators monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. 1953, president dwight eisenhower issued an executive order creating the president's committee on government contracts, directing companies doing business with the government -- with the government to hire employees without discrimination based on creed, color, or national organ. "reel america,"

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