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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  July 14, 2020 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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nypd members, so grateful you're here, john miller and jeffrey madry. dr. brian williams as well for helping us understand what happens in hospital, real trauma of this, and of course chief ramsey, we have you on all the time, you always speak with such authority. thank you. and my colleague sara sidner out on the streets covering these stories. appreciate you joining us. this is a tough conversation we should all continue to have without castigation, judging each other, concern of saying or doing the wrong thing, that's only way we're going to get this issue under control. we have had a productive conversation, hope we can build on it for the future. so thanks to all of my guests, thanks to you for listening and thank you for watching as well. i'm don lemon. our coverage continues.
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good evening. with more than 136,000 dead in this country due to the coronavirus pandemic, the president of the united states today stepped into the rose garden and tried to turn into a political rally he can no longer do because of the pandemic. for the better part of an hour he railed against china, democrats and joe biden, lashed out at climate accords and energy saving air conditioners, statue vandals and on and on the president at times seemed like he was reading a list. at other moments, he seemed to free associate. he talked about bombers under his command and said hope we don't have to use them and boasted of things he did three years ago with the wall, undocumented immigrants and old applause lines but no applause, only silence. because this wasn't some stadium packed full after supporters that came to cheer and jeer and bask in the glow of this artificially tan man. it was not closeed to anything one would expect or accept of a president but that shouldn't surprise us he chose to do it in the rose garden steps from the oval office.
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should not surprise us either. that's how numb we are. we listened to this man moose -- muse and meander and boast and brag and preen and do that odd thing with his nose when he sucks in air loudly and none of it surprises us. that's how far we have fallen. more than 136,000 of our brothers and sisters, our moms and dads, grandparents and friends are dead. the president did briefly mention them but only to boast about how many more people would have died had it not been for his actions. he calls it leadership but to call it that would be misleading. the largest single peacetime lose of life in this country since the 1918 influenza pandemic and no end in sight and today the president was taking another victory lap, yet again. the graves are still fresh but this president ignores them. he spreads more falsehoods, and standing apart from so many others opponents and supporters alike including within his own circle beginning face reality so before we play you some of what
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he had to say from the biological bunker where he lives and everyone is tested and wears masks to protect him, here is quick dispatches from the real world that you should hear. >> i think the fall and winter of 2020 and 2021 will probably be one of the most difficult times we've experienced in american public health. keeping the health care system from being over stretched is really going to be important. the degree we're able to do that i think will define how well we get through the fall and winter. >> cdc director robert redfield today and anthony fauci saying it could get as bad as the 1918 pandemic. tate reeves, the governor of mississippi and staunch supporter of the president making a full-throated plea for mask wearing in his state. republicans holding their convention in florida outdoors, all signs that regardless of where people stand, the
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political spectrum they are facing up to the facts and beginning to and the facts with few exceptions continue to be crushing. texas reporting a record high 10,745 new cases. florida reporting their highest death toll so far. cases now rising in 37 states. the president today brushed it off as flames to be put out rather than lives being extinguished. then got straight to the boasting and the falsehoods. >> we saved tens of thousands of lives, millions of lives by closing, we saved millions of lives. potentially. could be a number that we're actually working on but it could be to million to 3 million lives and frankly, if we didn't test it wouldn't be in the headlines because we're showing cases. we have just about the lowest mortality rate. if we did think of this, if we didn't do testing over 40 million people, if we did half the testing, we'd have half the
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cases. if we did another, we cut that in half, we'd have yet again, half of that. the cases are created because of the fact that we do tremendous testing. we have the best testing in the world. >> this is just ludicrous. this is the president of the united states. more than 130,000 people dead in this country and he's continuing this ridiculous lie, it's nonsensical. it defies any belief. we shouldn't be surprised because this is what he does. this is one of president's favorite lies. on heavy rotation these days. the united states is not the best or close to it in deaths. it's the seventh worst in the world. testing doesn't cause cases, it discovers them. by the way, according to dr. redfield and others, cases we know about are probably far under estimating the actual
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spread of this virus. testing helps stop the spread. the president also spoke to cbs news tonight, he said the testing is working quote too well and probably the only person who thinks that. he equated the confederate battle flag with people protesting and disproportionate killing of african-americans by police. i'll have more on that shortly but first, more on the rally in the rose garden by jim acosta. i think i know the answer of this. there seems like there is no one around the president, mark meadows, the chief of staff is new. he came in, i guess, some people thought there would be some change. seems like his job is really routing out leakers right now, which seems to be rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. is there anyone around the president who shakes their head when they hear rambling in the rose garden like this? >> reporter: no, anderson we're down to kool-aid drinkers and next of kin.
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at the trump white house. there are no more adults that will level with the president and tell him he can't deliver a rally like rant in the rose garden as he did earlier. the reason why that took place in the rose garden was like a rally is because the way he just went into the lies, the myths and the truth stretching that he does out on the campaign trail. you know, one of the reasons why the rallies aren't covered as much anymore is because the president can't be relied upon to tell the truth at those kinds of events. what he essentially did in the white house rose garden is transform one of the last places any presidential administration is supposed to be sort of removed from politics and plunged it head first into a cesspool of campaign politicking. we heard him check the boxes you would hear checked at a rally. he went off on hunter biden and immigration.
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at one point he was making magical claims that the wall was going to be finished or almost completed by the end of the year. that is not true. anderson, as you illustrated a few minutes ago, he continues to lie to the american people about the state of testing and the spikes in coronavirus in this country and continues to lie to the american people that the reason why we're seeing these spikes in cases is because we're doing more testing. so why is this that the former white house chief of staff mick mulvaney that works for administration, why did he put out an op ed on cnbc yesterday saying that testing remains a very big problem in this country? and so no, anderson, getting to your question, there aren't any adults to rein him in and make sure he doesn't do that in the rose garden this evening, and what i think for the rest of this campaign cycle we're left
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with the president using the rose garden like a rally space, what we saw tonight was a bait and switch. they told us it would be a press conference. the white house said he's having a press conference in the rose garden. he spoke and went on a rambling tirade for 53 minutes and took ten minutes of questions, one of the questions from essentially a propaganda outlet for the president. >> you know, what i don't understand is early on tried to portray this as he was a wartime commander in chief. fine. if coronavirus is invasion from outside our shore attacking america, if that is what the president early on was saying it was, fair enough way to look at it, the idea in midst of an attack on america, the president of the united states would not just continue to make the lies he does constantly but spend an hour in the rose garden with this rambling, you know, riff on
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all his greatest gripes and grievances. he would be relieved of duty if he was a commander in chief. really extraordinary. if we're under attack, this is what the president of the united states is doing and you know if he spent an hour doing it in front of reporters, it's what he does all day long to the, as you said, the kool-aid drinkers and the next of kin who are the only people who can stand to be around him any longer. >> reporter: that's right, anderson. one of the things he did during this press conference, so-called press conference, it wasn't a press conference, was he went back at attacking china and going as you said one of the greatest hits that he likes to put out there that china is solely responsible for this pandemic in this country and what's been taking place around the world. as we recall and been trying to make this clear to the american people from the very beginning of all this, the president has time and again praised china. praised gee xi jing ping and so
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on. anderson, i think one of the reasons why the event in the rose garden, the 53 minutes of rambling inas he was, i think he knows what the questions are going to be. he knows.he can't answer them. that is why -- >> he has no -- there is no plan. there is no plan. there is no plan for opening schools. there is no plan -- >> reporter: exactly. most especially schools. >> there is no plan for improving testing or ppe. which we're still freaking talking about ppe four months into this thing. it's just stunning. i've got to -- >> reporter: you have to wonder why he thinks the american people want to put children back in schools when he's been wrong on so many different occasions. >> yeah. jim acosta, appreciate it. thank you. digging deeper with dr. peter hotez and dean of tropical medicine in houston and dr. sanjay gupta and cnn senior
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political reporter nia-malika peterson. can you believe the commander in chief in the midst of the biggest peacetime deaths of people in this country, i talk about it every night and i'm still stunned we're in this mess at the helm. >> yeah, i watched his comments this evening, anderson and i was speechless. you know, today we have 40,000 new kazs just in the southern states, the swath from florida to california. globally we had 200,000 cases. so basically, one-fifth of the world's cases, one-fourth, one-fifth of the new cases are in our southern states. the deaths are going up. the hospitalizations are going up. hospitals are becoming overwhelmed and we're doing this largely without a federal response.
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bits and piented pieces. the states are left to more or less figure it out on our own and it's only going to get worse. you know, this is 136,000 deaths now but the deaths are starting to increase and the projections are about 200,000 deaths by october and again, no end in sight. the point is there is no plan. there is no federal led effort to bring this back. >> sanjay, again, the president claiming testing is working too well. you know, no need to ask you about it, it's just so ludicrous. >> it's getting worse, anderson. i've been getting calls today even saying look, it's taking too long for us to get test results. for people getting testing done, which can take hours of waiting, this is just the practicality of what it's really like for people right now and get these calls all the time waiting in their cars for hours on end to get
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tested. and then, you know, quest diagnostics, a big test provider said today, it could take seven days to get test results back. it kind of defeats the purpose, right? people realize that by now. you're worried you have the virus. get tested, it takes seven days. what have you done in seven days? have you been out spreading the virus? makes it worse. it's hard to believe three months ago the president came to the cdc and said anybody that wanted a test could get one. we're obviously nowhere near that still. >> i remember bill gates was on our town hall months ago when the white house was talking about the number of tests they were doing and which is, it takes a week to get test results. pointless if it does, and spreading it to who knows who, and not enough contact tracers to figure it out.
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nia-malika, again this is clearly like campaign-style speech the president attacking vice president biden multiple times, full of lies about the pandemic. i guess at this point since there is no plan with the virus and trying to come up with a plan and roll up his sleeves and do stuff and be held accountable for that. he's just kind of leaning fully into living in his biological bunker and just going after the same kind of cultural touchstones and campaign lines that he's used time and time again. >> yeah, and i think doing it in a fairly incoherent, listless, lazy way. that was a rambling speech. a 53-minutes and ten minutes of questions after that had that no real theme and no real lift and no purpose other than the president getting out there and riffing the greatest hits, all of the falsehoods he likes to
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peddle, whether it's about biden or his own record or about the covid crisis americans are living with every single day of their lives. this is an urgent crisis on the president's plan is that he has no plan. i mean, we keep saying will there be a federal response, his response is not to really respond and let the states deal with it, so we see this patchwork effort going on now, and resurgence of cases particular in southern states, the republican governors, they always wanted to please the president and follow his lead and find themselves now having to reverse some of those efforts to open up the economies down there so this is the president and what we'll see from this president. he has no vision, not for this present crisis and doesn't really seem to have a vision for why he should be handed another four years at this point. >> you know, no plan, leave it up to the states, attack the states, the basic steps we could all take wearing a mask, social
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distancing that would help the states reopen. that's the role he's chosen to play, which is just surreal. i mean, it's deeply harmful to the country. sanjay, i want to play something admiral brett jarro, it's not a navy admiral, he wear as navy uniform. he's a member of the public health service and administration's so-called testing czar, which i'm not sure anybody would want to claim credit for but i want to play something he said this morning. >> we are in a much different place now than we were several months ago. a much better place. we're not there yet, but we are seeing some early light at the end of this tunnel. >> again, for anybody who knows anything about the military, light at the end of the tunnel is a phrase used around 1968, '69 about the vietnam war. we know how long that went on for. so what is he talking about a light at the end of the tunnel? >> i don't know. anderson, it's a very long tunnel. you know, i hate to say it
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because i get the need and desire to be optimistic but i mean, you got to be real here. we -- and the numbers -- this is an objective story that they're telling because there is numbers and data and people can look at the numbers themselves. you don't have to believe us. look what is happening in the icus in florida. 48 icus in different counties in the state that are basically either full or near full. i mean, this is happening in other states in texas and arizona. in california the numbers have increased. 1,800 patients in icus in california. my parents in are in florida. they are worried the hospitals in their area may be too full if they get sick. can you imagine? that is something we talked about in northern italy. incredible source of fruflgs frustration, anderson, not just what's happening but because when you hear people minimizing it in this way, it makes me worried, they aren't going to do
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enough about it. i don't know what he's talking about. sadly, i hate saying it, likely to get worse before it gets better. >> dr. hotez, there still seems to be so much we don't know about long-term impact of coming down with covid. early on in this, i used to think it would be better sooner rather than later and develop immunity to it but everyone i know who has gotten it, some of them had real continuing lingering problems with their lungs, problems in their numbers in the blood. we heard dr. fauci warn this pandemic could be as bad as the 1918 flu pandemic. do you think he's right? >> long-term neurological complications, cognitive issues and depression, seeing a lot of people with depression now, starting to be well-documented. this is a horrible virus. vascular injury, sudden death
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and, you know, tony, dr. fauci mentioned compared it to the 1918 flu pandemic. he may not be far off. by the end of this year, we may be at 300,000 deaths. the flu pandemic between -- remember it was several years. 1918, 1920, '21 was 675,000 deaths. i hope we don't get there but it's not impossible. this has gone past becoming a public health issue, this is a homeland security issue. people don't feel safe. people don't feel safe going outside their home. they don't feel safe going into the workplace. they certainly don't feel safe with their kids in school. they don't feel safe at so many different levels, and this will have a very chilling effect for months to come, and i don't see how we sustain the economy at this rate, as well. eventually things will start to fall apart unless we can figure a way to get federal guidance and leadership. i'm not sure who takes that over.
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there is large pieces of the executive branch that are unwilling to do this. >> yeah. dr. hotez, nia-malika henderson, sanjay, appreciate it. an emergency medicine doctor in arizona, what it's like on the front lines. the president race raised remarks about confederate flags and what he had to say about good people on both sides back in charlottesville during that attack. don't just think about where you're headed this summer. think about how you'll get there. and now that you can lease or buy a new lincoln remotely or in person... discovering that feeling has never been more effortless. the lincoln summer invitation sales event is here.
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well, you see here... there's a photo of you and there's a photo of your mommy and then there's a picture of me. but before our story it goes way, way, way back with your great, great, great grandparents. see this handsome man, his name is william. william fell in love with rose and they had a kid. his name was charles and charles met martha... isn't she pretty? yeah. whether he intended to or did what he did, the president's remarks served as a distraction from what his own task force members were saying about the pandemic. from what state governors were acknowledging, they distracted from hopeful news about treatments and vaccines, none of what the president said focused on that at all. to the extent it focused
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on anything at all why it's important to pay attention to what is happening in the fight we're in right now. with that in mind, we're grateful to spend a few minutes with dr. quin snyder. dr. snider, appreciate you being with us. paint us a picture what things look like for you and the people you're working with and treating. >> it's really unfortunate. arizona is in a state of crisis right now as we speak. we're watching our health care system overflow. we're starting to see very unusual behaviors, such as transferring patients all the throughout the state and our neighboring states. we're needing to send patients to las vegas, san diego, albuquerque and southern utah. we're starting to house patients internally in unusual locations, as well. we're putting pediatric -- excuse me, adult patients in pediatric hospitals, which is very unusual and seeing providers act outside of their scope of practice. there is also a significant shortage of health care workers in this state, disaster teams have landed in this state to help with the covid fight.
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we're needing a significant number of travelers from other locations coming in, helping out with nursing and respiratory therapy and we're grateful they have come to help us and most disturbingly, we had some requests for refrigerated trucks to come into our state to house dead bodies because our morgues are beginning run out of space and unfortunately, right now, we find ourselves with our backs up against the wall and we could end up in a position where we have to make decisions like who gets a ventilator and who doesn't. >> i mean, so much of what you're saying is, i mean, it is horrific. it also just reminds me so much of the conversations i had with doctors back in april in new york where i live and where i'm from. you know, exactly all of those things and i remember even doctors in italy talking about
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difficult choices they have to make who would get a ventilator and who wouldn't, and how do you make those choices in the most ethical way possible. >> i think -- >> to be in that position in arizona is crazy. >> well, to be in that position so many months later from what had happened in new york and new jersey and italy and to not have learned those lessons is frankly inexcusable and some of your viewers in new york and new jersey might be surprised to hear here in arizona we don't have a statewide mask mandate still. and further more, i can go walk down the street and go have a sitdown meal inside a restaurant right now and we are at a very critical juncture in the pandemic. we need significantly more regulation i think, and it should have been done a long time ago. >> you know, one of the things when you're in a war zone,
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people fighting in a war zone, you're around other people doing and going through the exact same thing. i'm wondering when, you know, you are fighting every day in a medical setting and when you leave and you drive down the street and you see people without a mask or you see people eating in restaurants, do you feel like you exist on another planet in your work life where you are -- you know, you are seeing this life and death and yet, outside the walls of the hospitals it doesn't seem like people are paying attention? >> it's very challenging to be in this position and doing my best to try to take care of my community and i know that all the people i work with are doing their best to take care of some of the sickest patients we've ever seen and that contrast going out and driving around and seeing people out at restaurants is really heartbreaking to us and frankly, in someways, it feels insulting. it's probably never been a more difficult time to be a health care worker than right now.
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>> if you could bring, you know, a leader, governor of your state, the president of the united states, whoever it may be to, you know, to spend the day with you, what would you want to say to them right now? >> well, that's a great question. i would love to tell the governor of my state the president and frankly, the governors of every other state that if they want to succeed in this pandemic, if they actually want to contain it, then they need to step back from the podium and they need to allow medical professionals and they need to allow scientists to handle the pandemic. they need to let us manage the pandemic because they are putting us in a very dangerous position and i don't think they really know how to handle this correctly. and i understand that they think that they can politic their way around this, but the problem is
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that the virus doesn't care about your feelings. the virus isn't something you can sit down with at a negotiating table and get a good outcome. it doesn't work that way. the virus is going to do what it wants to do and i think that once our leadership comes to that realization, i think we'll all be in a safer place. >> dr. quinn sni snyder, appreciate it. makes me sick we're having this conversation for plus months into this because it is, it's a conversation i've had too often with doctors, months ago in new york and elsewhere and to know that it's now similar situations in arizona and elsewhere is sickening and i just wish you the best and appreciate all you're doing, thank you. >> appreciate your reporting on this, anderson. thank you very much. >> take care. just ahead, more reaction to the president's rambling rose garden speech and claims of historical leadership during the pandemic. and michigan governor gretchen whitmer when we return. ushing y.
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president trump's rambling campaign style speech this evening was also airing of grievances, and aimed at governors not grateful enough for his actions as president during the pandemic. >> the governors would tell us with 50 different, great job, great job and then they'll go to the media and say well, they didn't do such a great job. well, we did a great job, we made a lot of governors look fantastic. >> joining me is the democratic governor of michigan gretchen whitmer. there was a time listening to the president today, i got the
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feeling this is the monologue like he's the guy in the bar who just rambles to anybody who listens to the same story over and over and over again. we heard that so many times about governors or other people. i don't know if you listened to the president today because you're busy and he spoke for a long time and didn't say anything of particular import. what do you make of what you heard from him today? >> i didn't listen to the speech but i'll say this. we've got incredible challenges in this nation. we need to be banding together and yet what we've gotten is inconsistent at best, derisive remarks from the white house, things aimed at politicizing public health when lives are on the line. we're seeing record numbers every single day coming out of some of our states with regard to covid-19 cases and, you know, the
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acknowledgement so many lives have been lost and the pain, the economic pain we're feeling in this country. you know, it is really important that anyone with the leadership position is speaking to how we're going to get through this as encouraging people to wear masks is focussing on can we get our kids safely back into schools? it's troubling and disturbing to hear remarks like that when we have so much work to do right now when it comes to this virus. >> let's talk about what is happening in michigan, extended the emergency declaration until august 11th today and you said michigan now faces an acute risk of a second wave one that not only threatens lives and may jeopardize the reopening of schools and in response, i've paused the reopening of our economy. talk about that decision, i know you asked the president to let the national guard stay through the end of the year. >> that's right. 49 states out of 50 are in a state of emergency in some sort
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lawsuit about the governor's powers. the fact of there are studies that show these actions saved tens of thousands of lives. we know how to get this under control and yet we see people dropping their guard in michigan and across the nation. that the why mandating masks and ensuring we are tightening up right now, we're supposed to start school in 56 days. that is not that far off. so the conduct that we, you know, engage in right now is going to determine whether or not our kids get back into school in a meaningful way in person. that's why right now it is time to get more serious, push this curve back down, michigan led at one point, michigan and new york we're proud of that, but the slippage is very concerning and that's why we got to get right on it. the last thing we want to be are states that have uncontrolled growth going on in the south. >> the decision about schools,
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obviously it's not the president's decision but he said it would be a terrible decision if schools don't open in time in the fall. obviously everybody -- you're a mom, everybody wants schools to open and children to get out of the house and to learn and all of that and they need to go back to work, as well. what's the calculus on schools in michigan? how is that decision going to be made? >> one of the hardest decisions i've made and i've had to make a lot of tough decisions with the vacuum of leadership in washington, the nation's governors have stepped up. when i took kids out of schools at end of march, weighed heavily on me. 1.5 million kids in michigan half of whom get a meal or two five days a week at school. it created a lot of concerns and those concerns continue. the learning gap, the learning loss that happens every single summer is exacerbated for kids
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in poverty especially. but by the stress of covid and length of time, i want to get our kids back in school. if our trajectory is headed upward, we know it's probably not going to be safe to do that. tightening round now when things are still relatively good compared to what's going on across the country is really important because if we continue this trajectory, we just, you know, it's going to be -- we're going to be hard pressed to give parents confidence and teachers confidence it's safe to resume. right now the moment is critical. masking up across this nation, taking politics out of this so we can get our kids back to school and our economy re-engaged. if the numbers keep going up, we got to follow the science and protect lives. that's got to center the work we do. >> yeah. governor whitmer, appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> thank you. as promised, we want to come back to the interview that president gave to cbs news that touched on police shootings and the confederate flag and what mary trump said about her uncle,
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the president in her first interview writing what some are calling her bombshell book. [ thunder rumbles ] [ engine rumbling ] [ beeping ]
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as we mentioned at the top of the program, president trump taped an interview with cbs news before his white house session today. he talked about the confederate flag and white people killed by the police compared to black people. >> president trump back in 2015
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you said the confederate battle flag belongs in museum. do you still believe that? >> freedom of speech. very simple. my attitude, freedom of speech. very strong views. very simple. like it, don't like it, it's freedom of speech. >> would you be comfortable with your supporters displaying the confederate battle flag? at political events? >> depends on your definition. i'm comfortable with freedom of speech. it's very simple. >> you understand why the flag is a painful symbol for many people because it's a reminder of slavery. >> people love it. i know people that like about slavery. i look at nascar, you go to nascar with flags all over the place. they stopped it. i think it's freedom of speech, whether it's confederate flags or black lives matter, it freedom of speech. >> let's talk about george floyd. you said george floyd's death was a terrible thing. >> terrible. >> why are african americans still dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country? >> and so are white people. so are white people.
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what a terrible question to ask. so are white people. more white people, by the way. more white people. >> obviously, the second part of the president's answer deserves context as far as police killings according to a study published in 2018 by the american journal of public health adjusted for population, black men are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by the police than white men. as you heard, president defending displaying the confederate flag as free speech. bakari sellers author of "my vanishing country" and david axelrod and a cnn senior political analyst. when the president of the united states goes on national tv giving misleading information about police violence against black people in this country, making excuses for the confederate flags, i mean, i guess none of it is surprising. >> none of it is surprising but i think the question we have to ask ourselves is how far have we come?
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i think that's a question that the country literally has to sit back and ask themselves. how far have we come and where do we go from here? those are two simplistic questions. when you hear the president of the united states and the resolve to come down on the side and legacy of white supremacy, i mean, the sprpresident is a whie supremacist, you have to believe we have so far to go. this is not new. i don't want people to get outraged simply over the president's statement. he is harkening back on a time of leadership like george wallace, lester maddox. like bull connor. he's going back to a time of jimmy lee jackson and cheney and what the president doesn't understand is the history of this country. i firmly believe that the ignorance that the president of the united states displays and articulates day in and day out, it adds gasoline to the fire. because his followers, there is 35% of the country that adheres to everything he says.
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the president is a danger. he truly is a danger, what people and i firmly believe this and people are going to -- chastise me -- >> bakari, what if -- >> go ahead. >> bakari, what if the president actually -- he doesn't read, he doesn't read history but you said he doesn't understand the history. what if he does understand the history and doing it because he understands the history? i mean, that's also a possibility, isn't it? it's a sickening possibility. >> that's a sick -- i don't give him that much credit. i believe the president to be racist. i believe the president to be a white supremacist. i do not believe he is the architect of trying to espouse these racial ideologies and supremacist ideologies forward. i just think he's in this moment using racism as a political currency. stephen millers, people around him may be more what you're talking about. regardless, this did not start with donald trump and it's not
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going to end when he's rooted out of the white house. this is the under belly of the united states of america and this is something that we have to have a reckoning with that we are having a reckoning with and people have to understand that. >> david, i mean, it certainly seems like the president understands this is the underbelly of america and is very happy to play into it and play with it for his own ends. >> listen, he's -- he's riding the horse that he ran in on -- rode in on. he's espoudsed them throughout his presidency. i disagree slightly with bakari. i think he knows exactly what he's doing. he's an opportunist and he's exploiting race because he thinks it's to his political advantage to do that. i think he's badly misreading this moment and where the -- i think the country has moved. the president has not. and if you look at polling, you
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see that overwhelming majority of americans suggest that they feel he's off on this. they don't want to see the president of the united states pouring gasoline on the fire. and you can see it particularly in these suburban areas that he carried four years ago where he's now losing by double digits, and this is part of the reason why. people are uncomfortable with this tactic. but he believes that there is this -- what he calls this silent majority, a term that we heard back 50 years ago that support this kind of ideology. that support this sort of white supremacist rhetoric. and stand up for the confederate flag and that they will take him back to the white house. i'm sure he believes that. >> i want to play something from mary trump's first interview that she spoke to abc about -- about the president. let's listen. >> april 2017, i'm going to end where i began. >> sure. >> you go -- you see the
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president. >> mm-hmm. >> in the oval office. and you tell him, don't let them get you down. did you mean that? >> i did. actually. he -- that was four months in? he already seemed very strained. by the pressures -- you know, he had never been in a situation before where he wasn't entirely protected. from criticism or accountability or things like that. and i just remember thinking, he seems tired. he seems like this is not what he signed up for, if he even knows what he signed up for. and i thought his response was actually more enlightening than my statement.
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and he said, they won't get me. and so far looks like he's right. >> and if you're in the oval office today, what would you say to him? >> resign. >> boil it down. what's the single most important thing you think the country needs to know about your uncle? >> he's utterly incapable of leading this country. and it's dangerous to allow him to do so. >> based on what you see now? or what you saw then? >> based on what i've seen my entire adult life. >> bakari, i mean, you know, it's quite a story, obviously. does any of it matter? i mean, is all of this baked in? is everybody's mind made up. >> no, i think that proves my point, though, anderson. like we've known this.
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this is not anything new. it's not as if the president became racist yesterday. it's not as if he became incompetent in 2019. this is the same person who rode down the escalators and called mexicans rapists. this is the same guy when i was in the studio who played footsie with david duke. we know this is to be true. the united states of america, we deal with the patriots we hares today and we've never dealt with this issue. hopefully we can very quickly and turn the page. >> very quickly, david axelrod, do you think this matters? >> no, i think what matters is that 136,000 people have died and this virus is raging and he seems unresponsive to it. what matters is he seems to be pouring gasoline on the fire of race at a time when the country is having a reckoning about it. these things touch people's lives and i think they're going to vote on what touches their lives, not -- i think long ago they've made a judgement about
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his character. >> correct. >> david axelrod, bakari sellers, thank you for being with us. appreciate it. up next, we're going to remember the victims of the pandemic, we try to do every night, a couple married for 60 years and a marine veteran. oh, that's a good one. wait, what's that? that's just the low-battery warning. oh, alright. now it's all, "check out my rv," and, "let's go four-wheeling." maybe there's a little part of me that wanted to be seen. well, progressive helps people save when they bundle their home with their outdoor vehicles. so they've got other things to do now, bigfoot. wait, what'd you just call me? bigfoot? ♪ my name is daryl.
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we began the number of the raw number of lives lost in this largely prevental natural disaster. more than 136,000 and rising. fred and judy were married in 1959 in miller, nebraska. they'd spend the next 60 years together side by side. when it was time for them to go into a nursing home, they went together and came down with the coronavirus. judy was rushed to the hospital first. fred remained at the nursing home. she passed away a few days later. that same day, fred was rushed to the emergency room and placed on a ventilator. they died just 12 hours apart. their son stephen said his parents were so connected his father just didn't want to be left behind.
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fred whitsel was 38 years old and judy was 81. jerome was a sergeant in the marine corps who served in the korean war. part of a critical battle the chosen reservoir in korea. american troops were outnumbered and surrounded in the middle of a brutally cold winter. after he left the military, he became a police officer and served in new jersey. his love for his country was only second to his love for his family. he and his wife audrey had five children, 21 grandchildren and 22 great grandchildren together. imagine that. jerome rice was 86 years old. joan swanson grew up in the bronkts in new york city. the often talked about how she loved her neighborhood and the life long friends she made there. after she graduated from high school, she worked as a secretary and met her future husband carl swanson. they spent nearly 50 years together. raised a son and a

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