tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN September 28, 2011 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
it's 10:00 p.m. here on the east coast. we begin with breaking news on the terror front. an alleged plot to attack targets in washington, d.c. a sting operation and today an arrest and charges. federal authorities saying a man was plotting jihad. planning, they say, to pack oversized model planes with c-4 plastic explosives and fly them into the pentagon and the capitol. they say he's no bumbling fool. he is an american citizen from the boston area. he has a physics degree from northeastern university. take a look at the pictures, the justice department releasing two photos of planes similar to ones they say he was planning to use. as you can see they're big enough to carry a serious load. the department of justice also believes he was planning a simultaneous ground attack involving six people armed with automatic weapons. brian todd is working the story and has more on who this guy is, what, if any, overseas connections he might have. and how the fbi caught him. joining us also fran townsend. so, brian, this was an fbi sting. what do we know about how it went down? >> reporter: it appears to have
been a very elaborate sting. authorities were tracking mr. ferdaus for the better part of this year. at least since january of 2011. they do indicate that he began some of his various plotting last year but they have tracked him at least since january. they have used undercover agents and at least one cooperating witness who started taping conversations with him earlier this year. so this was a fairly elaborate sting operation that lasted until today when they actually sold him what he thought was some explosive material. they said not a lot of it was the real thing because they were obviously trying to trick him, but it lasted until today when they actually took him down. >> did he ever have any connection to real people at al qaeda? >> reporter: they say -- the federal authorities say that he did not. there is no indication according to a law enforcement official that cnn spoke with today, no indication that he has any kind of connection with a foreign terrorist organization. he dealt with undercover fbi agents who were posing as al qaeda operatives.
he believed he was dealing with al qaeda operatives. but according to a law enforcement official we spoke with, no indications at this time that he had any serious connections to foreign terrorist groups. >> fran, using remote control planes as bombs, i'd never ever thought of that as a possibility. is that something authorities have thought about before? >> reporter: sure, anderson. it's fair to say authorities have looked at this both offensively as something we could do and the u.s. government doesn't acknowledge it. we use predators that have missiles on them. and we have the offensive capability, we've looked at it defensively could somebody use it against us. the thing that is stunning here is the notion of it being used inside the united states, a weaponized remote vehicle. but this time it was pretty serious. this guy took overt steps in furtherance of this plot. he did surveillance down in washington. he rented a storage facility to
work on those remote drones. so i regard this as a pretty serious case. >> once he had flown these bombs into the pentagon, brian, and the capitol, there was supposed to be a ground operation as well? >> that's right. he was going to bring in some ground operatives, two teams, according to these affidavits, to attack these buildings and as he put it, according to the documents, put the squeeze on people as they tried to evacuate these buildings. essentially they would fire on people with automatic weapons as they tried to evacuate the pentagon and the capitol, anderson, so he did have those plans afoot to bring in ground operatives. no other names mentioned in this affidavit. no other possible leads on suspects. he at least had plans to do this, however. >> fran, you said it seemed like it was serious, that he was visiting a place to work on the planes. i guess some people would be skeptical and say, look, if somebody just talks about doing something, i'm sure there's lots of people that talk about things. it seems it was the fbi who was providing him with the fake explosives.
if he didn't have access to explosives of his own, i assume his defense will argue some sort of entrapment. >> reporter: well, absolutely, anderson. but the interesting thing here, and the reason you see in the complaint and affidavit, that he took these actions. the significance is in trying to suggest it's the government taking all the action, having the idea, they attribute this guy's statement and to show his intent, commit jihad, and that he himself went down to washington and did surveillance in furtherance of this planned attack in addition to renting the storage facility. the government didn't do any of those things. he was relying on what he thought were al qaeda operatives to provide the explosives and he was looking to get them in order to load them onto these drones. so i will tell you having been a former prosecutor, the overt acts are significant and go directly to the heart of the plot so i think the government will beat an entrapment defense.
>> we'll continue to watch it, appreciate the reporting. tonight another stunning story. new and troubling details about the botched and some would call outrageous atf operation called fast and furious that aimed to track firearms bought in arizona, brought across the border to be used by mexican drug cartels. there's word tonight that taxpayer dollars, your money, paid for some of those weapons. there's also evidence of a huge communications blunder. one of the gun runners the atf was targeting was an fbi informant and the atf did not know that. drew griffin has more on both developments shortly. let's give you some background first. it is a stunning story and came to light when border patrol agent brian terry, this man here, was shot and killed last december on the arizona side of the border. two of the guns that were used in this fast and furious program, two of the thousands of guns the atf had lost track of were found at the scene. >> he had already made his travel plans to fly back to michigan and spend the christmas
holiday with his family. brian's attention to detail had ensured that all the christmas gifts he had meticulously selected for his family had already been bought and sent in the mail prior to his arrival. brian did ultimately come home that christmas. we buried him not far from the house that he was raised in just prior to christmas day. >> his still grieving cousin speaking before the house oversight committee. the committee also heard from atf whistleblowers. >> we weren't giving guns to people who were hunting bear, we were giving guns to people who were killing other humans. >> rather than meet the wolf head-on, we sharpened his teeth, added number to his claw. all the while we sad idly by watching, tracking and noting as he became a more efficient and effective predator. >> remember the idea was to give guns to gun runners, to drug runners, to mexican drug cartels, track where those weapons were and ultimately --
ultimately on the mexican side of the border arrest the people and kind of figure out the networks, the drug cartel networks. testimony, though, revealed that mexican authorities couldn't tell the u.s. where the weapons were, where they were going because they weren't even told about the operation. so the united states was essentially arming mexican drug cartels and no one told the mexican government. the question both then and now is who ultimately was responsible for conceiving this kind of an operation, a risky operation and nothing like it had ever been done before and seemingly executing it so poorly? the true answers, we still don't know. washington is not saying. in may, attorney general eric holder told the committee that he learned about fast and furious more than a year after it was launched. president obama said that neither he nor his attorney general approved the strategy of letting firearms just walk into mexico. acting atf director, kenneth melson also testified there was no policy director from washington or the administration to use this tactic.
he said he had not known that such details or briefed superiors about them. he has since left the job. back in july a man named william newel, the head of the phoenix atf office, told congress that he made mistakes in handling the operation but defended the aim of it. he said he wanted to take out the entire gun running organization, not just stop a few easily placed links in the chain. he has been reassigned. and the details keep coming out now. drew griffin joins us with the latest. what have you learned now, drew? >> well, anderson, it deals with what was happening and the guns that were being used. in a letter that was written by congressman issa and senator grassley that we got ahold of, the lawmakers say they have obtained detailed information from confidential sources that the biggest fish that the atf had in his whole operation, anderson, was actually this informant with the fbi. so not only was this an operation that didn't have any way to track guns once they went across the border, but one of
the biggest targets that the atf thought they might take down as part of it was working with the fbi. senator grassley's letter suggests that shows a complete lack of communication between the atf, the dea and the fbi. >> so let me just -- i just want to reclarify this because it's a little bit confusing. these guns were being purchased with taxpayer money and then the guns were being basically allowed to go over the border into mexico by drug runners that were then used by mexican drug cartels. >> some, some. let me first tell you about the operation. here's what the atf agents did. they sat outside gun shops in the southwest where they knew these straw buyers were buying 10, 15 ak-47s at a time and going across the border into mexico. they're sitting out there doing surveillance, knowing these guys are bad guys. they were literally calling their superiors, let me arrest
them now, let me take them down now. their orders were, no, let's let them walk across the border with the guns. that's where they lost track of the guns because there was no way once they went across the border to know where those guns were. now, the information from yet another letter, this written to a gun shop owner is informing the gun shop the atf is going to send in an agent to buy four pistols for official duties. we now know these too were purchased as part of fast and furious. not only were they tracking the guns purchased legally, they were also buying guns with taxpayer dollars and allowing those to go across the border as well. >> so again, clarify why the atf would purchase these weapons? >> the operation makes no sense. according to every law enforcement authority i have talked with, and that includes many atf agents themselves, you don't ever let a gun walk, as they say in this business, especially without any way to know where it is going. so what's the real purpose? the lack of sense, the apparent
cover-up has opened the door for these conspiracy theorists. they believe this was part of a convoluted plan for the obama administration and the attorney general to actually increase the level of violence on the mexican border with assault weapons purchased in the u.s. in an apparent attempt to rekindle interest in an assault weapons ban. as wacky as that may sound, i must tell you that theory is gaining traction, not just among the second amendment crowd because this operation makes no other sense. >> you've spoken with the house committee on overnight and government reform, what do they say is the next step in all this? >> congressman issa said there is only one step to take. that is for a special prosecutor, somebody outside the realm of the attorney general's office, to get in and get to the bottom of this, trying to figure out who knew exactly what, who knew when. and that is being backed up by
the national rifle association. the nra's president saying this is the biggest cover-up since watergate. it's time to ask watergate questions like, who authorized fast and furious and how high up does it go? >> drew griffin, appreciate you staying on this. earlier tonight i spoke with a sheriff from pinole county, arizona. he said neither he nor his deputies were told about operation fast and furious and he has a lot of other strong words. listen. >> so, sheriff, the mexican cartels have obviously been a huge problem in your county for your officers. when you hear, when you realize that the federal government has essentially been arming these cartels, what goes through your mind? >> we feel it's a betrayal. 42,000 people have been killed. and these weapons that our own government gave facilitated to these violent criminals in mexico 200-plus people we know have been killed by them. so there's a responsibility for that >> 200 plus? >> 200 plus. we also have our hero in the
border patrol, agent brian terry killed on american soil. three guns have been found at the murder scene. all three of them were connected to this program. and so for us, i'm fearful not just my deputies, other officers, citizens in america that we're going to be facing the barrels of guns that have been put in the hands of the most violent criminals in north america and who's going to be held accountable for this? >> have your officers encountered any of the weapons linked to fast and furious? as you said, three were involved in the killing of border patrol agent brian terry. >> well, we had a shooting just last week. a cartel member opened fire on an officer coming down from a hilltop. we have been actively pursuing the cartel members in our county. we're not even on the border, we're 70 miles north of the border and we had this happen. we don't know if these weapons that were confiscated are linked yet to fast and furious. but 11 crimes now on american soil have been linked to these weapons.
they're semiautomatic, fully automatic and 50 caliber rifles that are sniper rifles. we don't even have those type of guns. >> i want to read something that you said or quoted as saying, if somebody gives a gun to somebody knowing they're going to commit murder, guess what we call them. we call them accomplices. do you think the atf have been accomplices to murder? >> absolutely. >> so you're saying what they were doing was criminal? >> absolutely. not just these individual agents, but people up the chain of command who made the decision. the u.s. attorney for arizona just resigned. this is a big deal. now it's one step away from eric holder. this is his department of justice and there are people who have lost their lives. we have broken countless treaties with our neighbor, mexico, and we have a hand in responsibility in this violence that has come to the united states. but more importantly, mexico is
our partner. they're not our enemy. and we facilitated guns into the cartels that have worked to topple the mexican government. >> from a law enforcement standpoint, did this operation make any sense at all? >> it doesn't. where it came from is this concept when we allow drugs or cash or sometimes a criminal walk. we may watch a crime in progress where we can take lawful action. we allow that criminal to go in an effort to watch it spider web and to see how many people we can catch. they use the same concept with weapons. and this is pure insanity. it's never been done before to give weapons like this. their idea was to track the weapons. there was no tracking mechanism. now all these guns are nowhere to be found, and for years, this will haunt the conscience of america rightly. >> and as you say, weapons are still out there and who knows how many others may die because of that? sheriff, i appreciate you being on with us. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> let us know what you think.
we're on facebook, follow me on twitter. @andersoncooper i'll be tweeting tonight as well. up next, new pressure on president obama. david axelrod may have said that winning re-election would be a titanic proposal. a new polling showing how titanic it will be. john king's got that. paul begala as well. we'll have much more coming up on our political panel. later, the michael jackson death trial. dr. conrad murray's actions that fateful day as described by jackson's personal assistant and head of security. what they say they witnessed as michael jackson lay dying or even dead. first let's check in with isha ses sesay. >> anderson, where is moammar gadhafi? that is the question. tonight we might have the answer. we'll bring you the latest word on his whereabouts and tell you who he's said to be hiding out among. that and much more when "360" continues. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you
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gives you a 50 percent annual bonus. so you earn 50 percent more cash. if you're not satisfied with 50% more cash, send it back! i'll be right here, waiting for it. who wouldn't want more cash? [ insects chirping ] i'll take it. i'll make it rain up in here. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? sorry i'll clean this up. shouldn't have made it rain. time for some raw politics now. a president under pressure. when your top campaign adviser admits your re-election campaign will be, quote, a titanic struggle, that is some pressure. the president not showing the strain today but maybe that's because he hasn't seen some of the state-by-state polling john king has. watch. >> anderson, they know at the obama campaign it will be nearly
impossible to replicate this. blue obama, red mccain. here are the big challenges for the president. just watch his travels in recent days. he knows what's happening. raising money out on the west coast but colorado, the governor told me yesterday, obama won last time, a toss-up at best last time. richmond, virginia, raleigh, north carolina, two states the president won last time he knows it will be difficult. twice in the last two weeks he has gone to ohio. why is he going to these places? watch this. 2004, george w. bush won those nine states that look a little purple. nine states went from red to blue in 2008. the president knows they will be some of the biggest battle grounds. nevada, highest unemployment in the country, i just mentioned colorado. let's come over here to two of the bigger battlegrounds. take away the president's travels. let's just look right here. the state of ohio, always a bellwether. the president carried it last time. his disapproval rating, a majority disapprove. this is significant. a majority of people of ohio say he does not deserve four more years. that's ohio. pennsylvania has been a democratic state for some time. another trouble sign for the president, 54% disapprove. 51%.
again, a majority say he does not deserve four more years. so the president sees the trouble in the big battleground states including some friendly democratic states. the big question is if it won't look like this, can he make it so it doesn't look as bad as that? anderson? >> interesting stuff. john king, thanks. joining me now is paul begala and cornell belcher. paul, not a lot of great news for key states from the president's campaign. is it as bad as john is saying? >> sure, it is. first off, the iron law of incumbents is the only way to run is to run scared but this president has to run very scared. the data is very bad. there's other data, though, that i would caution you about. stan greenberg, who's a democratic pollster and used to work for president clinton and my buddy carvel, they surveyed the 60 republican house districts that are the battleground districts. they are seeing a collapse for republicans there and a huge shift to democrats if democrats run on a progressive message about medicare, about fighting
for the middle class and about actually asking the wealthy and oil companies, special interests to pay their fair share. so the president has a path to victory here. but i think it's the path he's on frankly. i've been thrilled with him these last few weeks. i've been complaining mightily for the last year or so. but i think now he's on the kind of message that will reach those folks in those states that john was just pointing to. >> you want the gloves to come off. you like the rough and tumble of politics. >> i don't like it, i love it. i donated to him in the last campaign and wrote for negative campaigning only. that's all i would do. it's really comparative. nothing personal. i wouldn't do any of that. but i would make my chief strategist henne youngman so when he was asked how's your wife, compared to what? right? every issue -- how's your president? compared to what? compared to republicans. he should be out there every day drawing the contrast. i think it is a titanic clash between two different visions of government. the republicans aren't fooling around and i'm glad the president isn't either. >> cornell, how do you see it?
you had an inside view of the last obama campaign. >> well, it's going to be a tough re-election and all those people sitting on the sidelines and are angry about the country not changing enough, look, the forces of evil who don't want change to happen in this country are on the march and they're winning. the interesting thing is it's going to be tough and we're going to need everyone to get out and vote like they did last time around. we can't have this lack of enthusiasm that you see -- that we saw in 2010. i will say this. you know, the media is pushing this narrative about how awful things are going, how bad things are going. some perspective here. if you go back to clinton's reelect, there was a time point where clinton was losing to bob dole. the other interesting thing about those two states that you just talked about, ohio and pennsylvania, also in that same -- you know, that public poll, it also shows the president beating both of the -- the two top frontrunners right now in the republican party. you know, americans are not happy with anyone in washington. and they are particularly not happy with republicans in washington. >> but it's interesting, cornell, you're portraying it as evil on the march.
and, you know, the democrats have to stand up to evil. is that how -- i mean, it sounds like that you're saying it should be portrayed in the same way paul is saying it should be portrayed as this kind of epic clash. >> all campaigns are going to be an epic clash. by the way, i'm always going to probably agree with paul because he's really bright about these sort of things. but yeah, it's going to have to be a contrast here, a strong contrast. if you want to double down on the policies that got us into this mess, then you've got rick perry or mitt romney or actually i'm rooting for cain at this point or if you want to march this country forward and continue to tackle the tough problems and move as a country in a different direction and see change happen, you have barack obama. it is a clash. it is also a clear contrast. look, everyone on the republican side have already bought into doubling down on all the policies that got us here. in the end it's going to be that. it's going to be the future or
going back to the past that got us into this mess. >> what did the polls show about liberal support for the president? my reading of that is that it seems as though it stayed pretty steady while independents have abandoned him in droves. >> absolutely. he's lost about half of those independents. now, the conventional wisdom is that means he should try to split the difference with the republicans. that's what he's been doing for the last year as he's lost 50% of the independent votes. now, what independents want and this is not just from the wind, in other words, i got research and data that backs this up, i advise our audience should know, a pro obama, one of these pacs that supports obama. in our research, independent voters, swing voters in a swing state who we talked to, they want him to fight. this is not the liberal base. independents want him to fight if he's fighting for the middle class. the president, maybe cornell is doing it, he's getting the same polling data because that's what he's doing. that's what those independents want. a fighter and someone fighting for the middle class.
they feel like the middle class is getting squeezed. when he's on that message, he's now uniting his base with the swing voters, where the republicans are appealing to their base in a way that is driving away swing voters, because swing voters don't want to abolish the environmental protection agency, the department of education or cripple social security and medicare. so the republicans have this terrible tension between their base and the swing. the truth is the president can unite his base and the swing voters with the same message. >> you guys have both briefed presidents and/or candidates. is that how you brief them? do you say, look, the polls say they want you to be fighting for the middle class. i mean, sit what you just said? is that how you -- is that how a briefing goes? >> paul, let me jump in here first on this. there's conflict here because at the same time, you know, you'll attach whether you want to fight or not or someone to reach across and compromise and there's always a divide. sort of the whole -- the predicate of changing politics has been around this ideal that, you know what, so much about washington has been wrong because we've always wanted to fight and demonize the other
side. in president obama, you've seen a different kind of candidate, a different kind of president who wants to say, you know what, we're not going to solve the big problems in our country that confront our country by demonizing the other guy and fighting all the time. at some point you've got to reach across an compromise. i think the problem here is that you have an entrenched republican party. look, mitch mcconnell said his top job was to make sure barack obama gets defeated. not moving jobs or the economy forward, but getting barack obama defeated. so you have some republicans on the other side who want to reach across and get things done as well. >> paul, do you want to weigh in on that? >> yeah. at least president clinton who i served, the best briefings are the most unvarnished. we once told him we were dropping like a rock in a well. we used a slightly different metaphor than that. we explained things were going really badly but here's the path forward. the truth is the president's new tone and new message is exactly what voters want.
when he compromised with the republicans to extend the bush tax cuts last year, it cost $858 billion to the deficit, did not help the economy very much if at all and it drove him down in the polls. he cut that deal on the debt ceiling with republicans. it drove him down in the polls. the swing voters want him to stand up there and fight for them. >> paul, appreciate you being on. cornell as well. still ahead, where is moammar gadhafi? a question a lot of folks have been asking. representatives of libya's interim government say they know where he's hiding. we'll tell you where they believe the former libyan leader is and who's helping him escape. a report from the front lines. also another dramatic day in the trial of michael jackson's doctor. we'll talk to sanjay gupta, he's been talking to the defense team and he'll bring us the latest inside info and tell us about their plan to prove their client's innocence. we'll also talk to mark geragos and marsha clark.
coming up, dramatic testimony at the trial of michael jackson's doctor. his former personal assistant describing the frantic last moments of jackson's life. first let's check in with isha for a "360" bulletin. >> anderson, there's word tonight that moammar gadhafi's whereabouts may no longer be a mystery. representatives of libya's interim ruling government says gadhafi is in hiding near the western libya town and living under the protection of fighters. they say he often turned to the tribe in the past to shore up his fighting forces. four families have filed lawsuits over deaths and illnesses resulting from tainted
colorado cantaloupes. the listeria outbreak has already caused 13 deaths and more than 70 illnesses across 18 states. reebok just took a kicking from the federal trade commission. the company agreed to pay $25 million for what the agency called deceptively advertising that their easy tone walking shoes and run tone running shoes would shape your butt. the ftc says there's no proof the shoes do any more than make your feet look good. reebok says they stand by their shoes. so, anderson, you may have to mix it up a bit. >> i'm not going to weigh in on that one. >> no. you're going to stay well away from that one. crime and punishment on day two in the michael jackson death trial. gripping testimony from jackson's personal assistant and his head of security. both men describing what they saw and heard the day jackson died from a panicked voice mail message left by dr. conrad murray to a scene of chaos inside the rented mansion. jurors heard one witness describe a sweaty dr. conrad murray trying to revive jackson
even though it was clear to him jackson was dead. the jury also heard about a bizarre request dr. murray made later at the hospital where jackson's body was taken. here's randi kaye. >> and does this depict -- >> reporter: you're looking at the bedroom where michael jackson took his last breath, shown inside the courtroom. one of jackson's security guards had been called to the house when jackson stopped breathing and described the scene for the jury. >> and when you came around to the far side of the bed, what was conrad murray doing? >> he appeared to be administering cpr. he appeared very nervous. he was on his side, he was sweating. >> at that time did you see michael jackson's face and his full body? >> yes. >> and what did you observe about his face at that time? >> that his eyes were open and that his mouth was slightly open. >> did he appear to be dead? >> yes.
>> reporter: mohammed said at one point dr. murray asked jackson's security guards if they knew how to revive someone. >> had conrad murray asked you and alberto alvarez if you knew cpr? >> yes. >> and did you see alberto go over and assist dr. murray with cpr? >> yes. >> reporter: by the time mohammed had arrived, 911 had already been called, but 911 was not the first phone call conrad murray made when jackson stopped breathing. in court, new insight into murray's state of mind from jackson's personal assistant, michael amir williams. he painted a picture of a doctor on the edge. on june 25th, 2009, williams received a frantic voice message from murray which was played in court. >> please call me right away. >> reporter: that message was left after michael jackson had suffered cardiac arrest. murray gave no indication of that on the message only saying jackson had, quote, a bad
reaction. murray called williams, not 911. >> were you asked to call 911? >> no, sir. >> did you, upon hearing that message, call dr. murray? >> yes, sir. >> did he ask you to call 911? >> no, sir. >> reporter: in court, williams was also asked about murray's strange behavior at the hospital, as news spread that the king of pop was dead. >> what, if anything, was the request of conrad murray? >> he said that there's some cream in michael's room or house, i believe room, that he wouldn't want the world to know about and he requested that i or someone give him a ride back to the house. >> did you agree to take conrad murray back to the house? >> no, sir. >> reporter: williams told the court he was so spooked by murray's behavior, he asked jackson's security to lock up the house and not allow murray back inside. but defense attorney ed chernoff pointed out williams waited months before sharing his concerns with authorities.
>> mr. williams, the very first time you told the police about dr. murray wanting to get some cream was august 31st, 2009, correct? >> yes, sir. >> this was over two months after michael jackson had died? >> reporter: williams told the jury he frequently saw oxygen tanks at jackson's house. oxygen is required by the fda to be on hand when propofol is being used, in case the patient has to be resuscitated. >> can you describe what you personally saw in that regard? >> it was normal for oxygen tanks to be there. if they were there, we'd bring them to the bottom of the stairs and the chef or the children would bring them up. but it was normal to see the oxygen tanks the last few months. >> that would be a period of time that you knew conrad murray was coming on an almost nightly basis? >> yes, sir. >> reporter: even with all those oxygen tanks, michael jackson never had a chance. as the defense says, he died so quickly, he never even closed his eyes. >> randi, did the security guard
who testified say where michael jackson's kids were at this point? >> reporter: well, he described that chaotic scene, anderson, but the security guard, fahim mohammed described in the midst of all of this he noticed michael jackson's two oldest children, paris and prince michael, standing at the bedroom door. he said they were panicked so he quickly asked the nanny to take them to another room. but to hear him describe jackson's son with a look of shock on his face and paris later on, his daughter, on the floor curled up in a ball crying was so sad and so hard for that courtroom to hear, especially michael jackson's family who was there. >> randi, appreciate the reporting. much more on the jackson trial. dr. conrad murray could get four years in prison or lose his medical license. dr. sanjay gupta has information on the defense team's strategy. we'll also talk to mark geragos and marcia clark. also ahead, sarah palin is threatening a lawsuit. she's not happy about a new book about her and her family.
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more on day two of the michael jackson death trial. the prosecution zeroing in on the minutes that are crucial to their case. they called two key witnesses who described dr. murray's words and actions on the day michael jackson died. they recounted a scene of panic, chaos that left jackson's kids in tears. their testimony also raised questions the defense will have to address. dr. sanjay gupta has some inside
information on the defense team's strategy. he joins me now. you talked to sources on the defense team, inside the defense team. what direction do they say they are going to try to take this case in? >> well, they had some very specific descriptions of what they say happened on that particular day, and they described a scene where they say conrad murray did give michael jackson propofol, something we've heard quite a bit about. they say then he waited about ten minutes or more before he left the room. relevant because they say the amount of propofol that he gave would have been in and out of michael jackson's system within that time. what they say next, though, was pretty startling, anderson. they say they think that after conrad murray left the room, that michael jackson had in fact been feigning sleep or playing possom. he got up, got out of bed and took more tablets. this lorazipam, took eight of
those 2 milligram tablets of that and injected more propofol into his system. and then went back to bed. so they say michael jackson actually self administered both this anti-anxiety medication and propofol after feigning sleep in front of dr. conrad murray. sources close to the defense saying this. >> there was something else they wanted to clarify with you. was that the means by which jackson administered the lethal dose of propofol? >> right, yeah. this has gone back and forth. there was some talk yesterday that he ingested, which typically means someone who takes this in orally, but now sources are saying that it was actually -- he had what's called a port in his leg, sort of in indwelling iv. that was hooked up to an iv bag with tubing and they say jackson himself injected the medication into the tubing and the iv fluid pushed it into his body. >> so the defense also talked to you about another drug that jackson was being treated with by another doctor, demerol. they're saying dr. murray didn't know he was being treated with that? >> that's right.
they're saying even up to two days before michael jackson passed away, they say he was getting three to four procedures a week on his face. so up to two days before he was still getting these procedures. as part of these procedures, which were described to me as minor procedures, things like botox, for example, but he would get demerol with those procedures. relevant for two reasons. one is that michael jackson had known problems with demerol in the past. as you say, dr. murray is saying he didn't know about it. the second thing is as demerol breaks down, as people are coming off of demerol, sometimes it breaks down into a metabolite that acts as a stimulant in the body and keeps people awake. they say in michael jackson's case it made it very difficult for him to sleep which brings us all back full circle. >> i want to bring in marcia clarks, former los angeles deputy d.a. and also mark geragos, criminal defense attorney. jackson's personal assistant said when murray called him at no point did he tell him to call 911. that surprised me.
how damning do you think it is? >> i think it's terribly damaging. if you're going to go -- you have a patient who's at least in some form of distress that looks very severe and you call three personal assistants before -- and his children before you even think about calling 911? as i understand it, anderson, he never did call 911, one of the assistants did or one of the security guards, whatever. that's outrageous. that's just simply outrageous. i think it looks terrible for him. >> mark, is that explainable from the defense standpoint? >> well, i think clearly the defense is going to take the position, why is he going to call 911? why do you call a paramedic when you've got a cardiac trained physician who's there who presumably if somebody is in cardiac arrest, who would you rather have working on you, a physician or emt? i think that's going to be their position. >> sanjay, back in 2009, you tracked down another one of michael jackson's doctors who had traveled on tour with him,
according to source you spoke with that back then he gave michael jackson propofol. listen to what he had to say. >> we've come here because your name was obviously associated with michael jackson and people said that there was a question of whether or not you gave anesthesia to him while he was on tour. we just wanted to come to the source, you, here and find out if that had happened? >> i'm very upset. i'm distraught. michael was a good person. i can't talk about it right now. it's really something i don't want to talk about right now. i lost a friend and i feel very badly about that. >> do we have, sanjay, any idea just how far back jackson's struggles with or use of propofol went? >> well, you know, i don't know before that point. that was over 15 years ago. what was striking about, you know, talking to dr. ratner and
to people who led me to dr. ratner is they were describing a scenario where essentially, you know, an anesthesiologist, in this case dr. ratner they say was traveling with michael jackson and putting him down, as they put it, every night and bringing him back up in the morning. it was quite striking to hear that description. again, many years ago while he was on tour. >> sanjay, appreciate it. mark geragos, marcia clark as well. up next, sarah palin threatening to sue the author of a new book about her. we'll tell you why. and later did she or didn't she show too much on "dancing with the stars." what happened? all the wardrobe haters of nancy grace earn a spot on our ridiculous coming up. [ male announcer ] we're not employers or employees. not white collar or blue collar or no collars. we are business in america. and every day we awake to the same challenges. but at prudential we're helping companies everywhere find new solutions to manage risk, capital and employee benefits, so american business can get on with business.
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call 1-800-sandals. conditions apply. a quick "360" news bulletin. charges against the cole bombing ring leader. 17 sailors died that day 11 years ago. he will be arraigned within the next 30 days. his trial will take place at guantanamo bay with him facing the death penalty if convicted. sarah palin is threatening to sue the author of a new book about her. amazon is joining the tablet craze. the kindle fire will have a seven-inch color touch screen and google operating system. it goes on sale november 15th
for $199. and authorities in long island, new york, have arrested seven people, most of them students in an alleged s.a.t. cheating case. six students face misdemeanor charges. the seventh suspect, a 19-year-old, is accused of charging students up to $2,500 to take the s.a.t. for them. anderson? still ahead, she said it wasn't a wardrobe malfunction. i for one am not going to argue with her so what happened with nancy grace? [ male announcer ] at transamerica, we are the tomorrow makers. we're making tomorrows like clockwork. ♪ for all the different things our customers planned for. like a college education. or, the perfect wedding. ♪ ♪ i love ya, tomorrow! [ male announcer ] we're making them a better financial future.
time for "the ridiculist." tonight we are adding the wardrobe critics of our dear friend from down the hall, the one and only, ms. nancy grace. as you've heard by now there's a bit of controversy over a disputed -- and we stress, disputed -- wardrobe malfunction on monday night's episode of "dancing with the stars." i just want to say we are taking the high road and are not going to sensationalize this or make fun of it. get on board, america. anyway, here's what happened monday night on abc. there we go. just help you out there a little bit. here we go. that's all right, that's all
right. on the european version that would be perfectly fine. come on over here. >> okay, first of all, his voice cracked. did tom call her miss kitty? what the heck is going on out there? miss kitty? now, i know it's hard to tell exactly what happened from that clip. you might have missed the split-second shot that made it on the air so let's just freeze it and put it on screen. now, of course we blocked out the disputed portion of the image. have we? oh, yes, we have. we've blocked out -- whose face is that? wolf. okay. we're using blitzer. we've used blitzer to block out the image because a lot of people who saw this thought nancy had a bit of a slip and showed america -- let's just say one of her jurors was tired of being sequestered. i'm taking nancy's side. she tells tmz, quote, when i got dressed, i was wearing petals, nipple covers, and an industrial strength bra. my dancing dress also had a bra sewn into it.
i have been judged guilty without a trial. i will go to my grave denying the nip slip. >> nancy, do not worry, friend. not only do i have your back, i think you should watch out for that dr. drew. the reality is you're simply not the type of person who would show skin on national television. what kind of tv host would have the nerve to do such a thing. okay, fine, i did it on my daytime talk show. but i can't bring myself to show it again. my skin is just too, too pale plus i don't trust tom bergeron and his bag of kitty litter. still trying to figure out what that's about. the bottom line is this, this isn't a joke, this is serious business. this isn't just some seinfeld episode. >> i'm not sure, and correct me if i'm wrong, but i think i see a nipple. >> okay. so it's a seinfeld episode. look, the fact is, nancy, i believe you. i'm on your side. it was merely a nipple cover, a pasty as the ladies call them. do ladies call them that still? and nothing more than that. as for your critics, my friend, they can go tit for tat on the ridiculist.