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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  August 23, 2017 2:30am-3:01am BST

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the latest headlines for you from bbc news: a bbc investigation has revealed the scale of suffering inside yemen. around 17 million people are hungry and 7 million are starving. a civil war has devastated many cities and a blockade imposed by a saudi arabian—led international coalition is preventing food supplies from reaching those in need. the american secretary of state, rex tillerson, has played down president trump's assertions on monday that the united states will win the war in afghanistan. mr tillerson told reporters in washington that the us might not win a military victory over the taliban, but the militants couldn't win either. charges including murder have been filed against two of the suspected islamists captured after last week's attacks in and around barcelona. a third suspect is being held for another 72 hours for questioning, while another has been released while another has been released while investigations go on. it has just gone to 30 a.m. . now on bbc
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news, it's time for hardtalk. —— 2:30am. welcome to hardtalk. . i am stephen sackur. politicians and civil serva nts sackur. politicians and civil servants usually abandon their offices in the dog days of august, but not this year in london, where brexit is now an overwhelming political priority. theresa may's government has issued a raft of proposals on what trade, border and legal arrangements might look like post brexit, with a striking focus on continuity rather than change. my guest to one of the conservative party's staunchest brexiteers, mep daniel hannan. if brexit isn't a clean break, then what's the point? daniel hammond, welcome to hardtalk.
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we are six months into a two—year process that will end with the departure of the uk from the european union. are you satisfied with what has happened in those first six months? yes i am. i think it is gone better than many expected. we were told during the referendum campaign that the very act of voting leave would trigger a downturn. i don't think anyone now argues that happen. we grew faster in the six months after than we did in the six months after than we did in the six month before. whether you look at exports, consumer confidence, retail sales, look at exports, consumer confidence, retailsales, overseas investment, the stock exchange... they are all rising. britain is in a strong position, and i am hopeful
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that we can have an amicable process that we can have an amicable process that leads to a mutually advantageous outcome. of course, this is a process which is a two way st. we have wishes, desires, things that we want to achieve. i say we, as the united kingdom. the european union, all 27 states still in at, they have their own take and concerns in this. it is interesting that european politicians seem to be feeling that the process is not working, starting with the negotiated themselves, which left negotiations at the end ofjuly expressing deep frustration with what they believed was the lack of preparedness from the uk's side. what they believed was the lack of preparedness from the uk's sidelj don't recognise that description. i think the government is now making public what was in its private negotiating positions up until now. and they are very sensible, moderate proposals on how to maintain judicial co—operation, how to ensure
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mutual recognition of goods and services, the border in ireland, customs, and so on. but stephen, i do really buy that this is a win— lose operation, where we have our desires, and the 27 as. it is plain that it desires, and the 27 as. it is plain thatitis desires, and the 27 as. it is plain that it is in the interest of the uk for our partners to prosper. it would not be in our interest for brexit to lead to some sort of prolonged bout of uncertainty about the euro, which affected the prosperity of our neighbours. we wa nted prosperity of our neighbours. we wanted to do well. we should go into this process looking for win— win outcomes. surely this is an exercise in power dynamic. surely you would agree that right now the leveraged lies with the european partners, rather than the uk. michel barnier, he gives reminding us that the clock is ticking. the uk will leave in 18 months now, come what may. it is
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clear from so many different voices in the uk that we cannot, now, conceive of leaving with no deal. so we have to do a deal. i am not sure why that countdown is considered only disadvantageous to us. imagine there was no article 50, no deadline. then we really would be in a position where the talks could be strung out endlessly, where continuing financial tribute could be exacted from us, where we could be exacted from us, where we could be subject to all the rules without any hope of getting out. citing putting an end moment on it and saying we are leaving, with or without a deal, by such and such a date focuses both sides, it makes it more likely that we will have a mutually beneficial arrangement.” am talking about leverage and who holds the cars. —— the cards. some have said that if we leave without a deal, placed could stop flying. car manufacturers have said if there is no deal based would be to send their
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components, receive their components from european manufacturing sites, and reduction will stop. that is a pressure was the united kingdom has to deal with. pressure was the united kingdom has to dealwith. if pressure was the united kingdom has to deal with. if you really took it seriously... there are 27 countries in eu. there are many more not an eu. the idea that our players will be grounded in such an absurd fa ntasy. be grounded in such an absurd fantasy. it is ridiculous that we are even discussing it is a proposition. you don't need to be pa rt proposition. you don't need to be part of a political union to trade with another country. and actually, i suspect that the trade talks with the eu will be technically the easiest bit of these hold negotiations. there will be some tough talks about the money and agricultural standards and so on, but the basic idea of a free trade area — remember that these will be the first trade talks in history where you start from a position of
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zero tariffs and regulatory equivalents. so for the first time, the bias is looking the other way. with respect, you are one of the longest serving brexiteers i can think of. your voice has been a strong voice in the tory party to withdraw for a long time. you clearly have a vested interest in saying there is no urgency or problem. but let me quotejon foster from the cbi. he says it there needs to be urgent agreement to ensure the goods and services still flow freely, otherwise we have a profound problem. and the cbi declared itself encouraged by the proposals established last week on how the customs union would work. hears talk about urgency. urgency works in favour of the european union, rather than be uk, it seems to me. —— he was talking about urgency. he's
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talking about a collapse of the talks. let me stop you right there, because what you have just said is very important. back injanuary, theresa may said at lancaster house, she said while i am sure that a positive agreement can be rich, i am equally clear that no deal for britain is the better deal than a bad dealfor britain. britain is the better deal than a bad deal for britain.” britain is the better deal than a bad deal for britain. i am saying that. that is a statement of the obvious. if you had some kind of deal, some kind of hunger games type deal, some kind of hunger games type deal, where you had to send a boy and a girl each year... no, it is a statement of the obvious to say there is a point where you would walk away. what i am saying is that applies to both sides. 0n the day that we leave, we become the eu's single biggest export destination, right click it is not in the interests of anyone in brussels, and i've not heard anyone their say otherwise, for us to walk away without the trade arrangements put in place. but the percentage of gdp
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of the european collective is tiny compared to a percentage of gdp trade with europe reserves rise. clearly, we have more to lose than they have. techie both sides have an incentive to reach a deal. -- both sides have an incentive to reach eight deal. of course it is bigger than the uk then the eu. but the balance of trade is in favour of the eu. it is selling to britain much more than it is buying from britain. it is not normal in any trade negotiations for a salesman to bully a customer. let's into detail of what has happened in the last few weeks. i think we can agree that the british government has shown signs in the last few weeks to be very keen to find ways to coalesce around transitional arrangements that can maintaina transitional arrangements that can maintain a positive economic relationship with the european union after this two year deadline has
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passed. it seems to me, looking at the detail, that key concessions have already made. i want to know how you feel about them. for example, on money, david davis, the brexit cabinet secretary, he is saying now that, quote, programmes at the uk wants to consider this is at the uk wants to consider this is a bedding in, we will participate in. it's easy sent a signal that ongoing parents will continue to the european union. —— payments. is it a cce pta ble european union. —— payments. is it acceptable to you 7 european union. —— payments. is it acceptable to you? remember that it was a narrow result. 52 % voted to leave, 48% voted to stay. the best system would leave in place of our existing arrangements. what ever we end up with will go too far for some, not far enough others, we should try to build a consensus that is suitable for most of the 48% and most of the 52%. part of that is
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remaining part of these various programmes, where they are in everybody‘s interest. programmes, where they are in everybody's interest. what about the jurisdiction of the european court ofjustice for a transitional period? no, we're working an arbitration mechanism such as other non—eu countries in this part of the world have, like the swiss or the norwegians, we can have mutual applicability of each other‘s judgements, and an arbitration mechanism that makes both the use of the ec] and the other party. that sounds very complicated.” the ec] and the other party. that sounds very complicated. i have heard people say this, and i think it is important to highlight the difference: the ec] has direct effect on member states. it is the only court they can do that. that is looking at staying in the ec] on those terms. we are looking to have a friendly bilateral deal. it is not
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ina a friendly bilateral deal. it is not in a sense quite personal to you? i am wondering how you react to it in am wondering how you react to it in a personal way. you spent the best pa rt a personal way. you spent the best part of your adult life, politically, working to free britain, as he was said, from the shackles britain, as he was said, from the s ha ckles of britain, as he was said, from the shackles of the european union. but now, we have a government which this summer is sending a message to the public which essentially says, worry not, although we are leaving the european union, and we will do all the symbolic stuff that involves leaving, actually, what annuity is the watchword, and we will keep as much of what we had before as we possibly can. is that in some ways sticking in your throat? no, on the contrary. before the referendum, i have wrote a book on why you should vote leave. it said that the day after brexit will do quite like the day before. that is where devenish and can start to begin. but it is a new status quo. that is the point. did make it is a grisly in is to keep those bits of european co—operation working for all sides.
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-- it is co—operation working for all sides. —— it is obviously best to keep those bits. you can give a rule through domestic laws, or bilateral treaties, like the swiss, but you have sensible things that, you should them. research programmes, educational programmes, fine. the swiss deal with the european union based on the economic free trade area, that is a highly comic‘s agreement. and that is a much smaller country than we are. you could take many years to negotiate a deal that is british version of what the swiss have. we don't have many yea rs. after the swiss have. we don't have many years. after this message from the cabinet, including philip hammond and david davis, in ajoint statement, is that whatever transition we have, it must be over by the time of the next election, which will be 2022 at the latest. so
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there is very little time, here. the swiss managed it, and of course there are smaller country, but that gave immense leverage, because there we re gave immense leverage, because there were 8 million people, rather than 65 million, and they have a deficit, rather than surplus, with eu. they did manage to sit down and work on issues like fisheries and the permissible noise of lorries, or whatever. both sides except that this was at least that where they are largely in a free—trade area, but largely outside all of the politics. and i really don't think it is rocket science to do something similar. one of the most senior members of your party, the conservative party, george osborne, now in its the standard newspaper in london. he put his name to the paper which wrote a scathing editorial about where the government is taking brexit, just yesterday, in which is
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scornful conclusion was written is working hard to prove that we can recreate what we already have. what on earth is all this about if, in the end, even your message is, you know what, so much of what we are going through this and is an anguished to get is what we are ready have? what we are getting is the right to democracy, to make our own laws and live under our own parliament. 0therwise, live under our own parliament. otherwise, we would be getting the right to trade with companies around the world, the right to be more global. but it does not mean that you have stopped cooperating with your friends and allies across the channel. it is possible to be an independent country, takeback control in the sense that british law becomes supreme in our own territory, but to use that control through multilateral deals to have working, acceptable arrangements with countries who are our friends,
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suppliers and customers.” with countries who are our friends, suppliers and customers. i don't wish to flatter you, but you sound so emollient and reasonable that one wonders what this difficult negotiation is all about.” wonders what this difficult negotiation is all about. i think it may be easier than you think. u nfortu nately, may be easier than you think. unfortunately, you are not representative of so much of what people are... people are emotionally invested in wanting it to fail. is boris]ohnson? invested in wanting it to fail. is boris ]ohnson? of course not. i am deliberately not quoting your political opponents or your rabid, pro—eu opinions in this country. i am trying to focus on the nature of negotiations today. quoting boris ]ohnson, negotiations today. quoting boris johnson, who told negotiators to, quote, blow whistle if they get part
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of the compensation package for part of the compensation package for part of britain leaving the eu. you've beenin of britain leaving the eu. you've been in this game for a while, what would you expect to be happening at an early stage? wouldn't you expect both sides to put in a high opening bid? you would expect the eu to come out with a high figure and for the british to say, a whistle.” out with a high figure and for the british to say, a whistle. i would not expect that. i would not expect the foreign secretary to use that kind of language and tiring in negotiation with the very people who britain will have to do a deal with __ go britain will have to do a deal with —— go whistle. britain will have to do a deal with -- go whistle. on the issue of financing, it seems that the obvious way to solve it is for both sides to accept impartial arbitration. a neutral tribunal and said, you work out the assets, you work out the liabilities, and we both agree to
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your ruling. i am sure it would be a lot less tha n your ruling. i am sure it would be a lot less than the eu is currently working for. but if it is not, you'll be willing to pay it? of course we will pay a bill is. we are not the kind of country who breaks treaties. so, go whistle wasjust fundamentally unhelpful?‘ treaties. so, go whistle wasjust fundamentally unhelpful? a figure that the eu was coming outwith, even the european commission has com pletely even the european commission has completely dropped. boris]ohnson has already been vindicated, they are no longer asking for that amount. if you are so short that everything in the best possible world can be achieved with goodwill and good temper, do you accept that the european position, which is that they can be no meaningful debate about long—term issues in terms of future trading in an economic relationships between britain and the eu, none of that can happen until the three divorce issues have
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been sorted out, that is, the money, the compensation package, the status of the land border between northern ireland and ireland, and the third one, which is the status of eu citizens in the uk and vice—versa. do you accept that? we have just spoken about the first, i think there will be arbitration on money. ireland is a british priority as well. they are our closest neighbour and we all have an interest in wanting peace and prosperity in northern ireland. we don't want to stabilisation. that is notjust an eu priority. the point is... we are talking about... the irish prime ministers said they are not satisfied with the progress made so far. since he said that, we have come up with two very practical, workable ways of not having an obstructive land border in ireland.
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0ne obstructive land border in ireland. one is to have a kind of, we will involve the eu tariff, and we can also work with dismantling the border check but neither of those... it is this old message again, it ta kes two it is this old message again, it takes two to make a deal. the irish and the commission and many other european leaders, whether it be on ireland or the british government's rather convoluted take on customs and tariffs, the europeans are not buying what the british are offering. on ireland, we have said, evenif offering. on ireland, we have said, even if neither of those schemes is accepted even if neither of those schemes is a cce pted by even if neither of those schemes is accepted by the eu, we will not employs physical border tax —— impose. but it leads to the very important question of what kind of trade deal we get with the eu. you
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can't discuss ireland in isolation u nless can't discuss ireland in isolation unless you are also talking with some idea of what the eventual customs and tariff arrangements between the eu and the uk will be. you can't say this is a completely separate issue that we will talk about, and then we will come onto the broader one. likewise with money. if we put in money for the sake of good will and to have a deal, we need to know what that deal is going to be. the issues are going to have to be discussed in parallel. you said, fundamentally, leaving the eu is about democracy. concentrating on that, tony blair, an opponent of yours who believes britain is better off inside the eu, he said, people may decide that they actually don't wa nt to may decide that they actually don't want to leave on the terms set out. there has to be some way, either
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through parliament or an election, possibly another referendum, in which people are able to express their view. as a democrat, who sees this as fundamentally about an argument in the uk, would you agree? there is no evidence that what he has said has happened. we have had a general election... the democratic case general election... the democratic case for letting the british people, either in a parliamentary vote or in a direct referendum, have a say when the outline of the deal is done? the only justification for another referendum would be if it were on a different question. if there were substantively different deals from the one that they've read cameron negotiated in february last year. if that were to happen, if a looser arrangement... that would be different. but you know as well as i that that is not happening. it is
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quite surprising it hasn't happened. i expected that, but i don't know what is going to happen next. i don't think you can make those predictions. we do have to accept the outcome. the idea that they would be taking this line that they have taken if it had gone the other way, it is absurd. thinking one last time about what might happen next, i have talked about unpredictability. it is clear that the conservatives are deeply split on the european issue. there are people in it who have said, openly, i would issue. there are people in it who have said, openly, iwould be betraying my principles if i didn't make it clear that country comes before party. 0ne mp has said that, if the hard brexit option is pursued by her own government, she would leave the tory party. this could split your party? i hope all
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politicians would ultimately put country before party. if not, they need to ask some hard questions. all the parties were split by the referendum. the majority of conservative mps voted remained, and a minority voted leave. since the referendum, the mps who voted remain have behaved with exemplary democratic respect. they did not try to argue, they accepted the outcome. they said, if this is the instruction from the british people, let's try to make it successful. there is a legitimate argument about the terms of brexit, which parts we keep, how much we shadow what the eu is doing. we should welcome the input from any interested parties. but the fact of leaving the eu, having the supremacy of british law,
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thatis having the supremacy of british law, that is no longer in question. we have to end there. thank you for being on hardtalk thank you very much, daniel. —— hardtalk. hi there. yesterday was a pretty humid day, wasn't it? we did have some sunshine coming through. the best in southwest england, temperatures climbing to 25 degrees in bute. it was not sunny everywhere, a couple of inches of rain in northern ireland, 15 millimetres in just four hours in county tyrone. rain not just heavy but also thundery. thunderstorms rumbling north—east across northern ireland through the night. to the start of friday,
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the band of rain has moved away from northern ireland and into scotland. a soggy start with some wet weather swinging into north—west england. mild and muggy to start for many of us, 16—17 degrees. wet weather still with us for a good part of the morning across scotland. for eastern areas, low cloud with fog patches around the coast and hills. an improving picture in northern ireland. cloud breaking to give some sunny spells. starting to see things a bit brighter nibbling in across south—west of wales and south—west england as well. time to see what happens through the rest of wednesday. this area of cloud and rain is tied in with this weather front. slowly pushing eastwards across the country. ahead of that front, warm and muggy air across east anglia and south—east england. if the sunshine comes out through the cloud, it could become very warm. generally, the weather turning a bit fresher from the west as the day goes by. temperatures getting into the low 20s, perhaps even mid— 20s in the warmest areas in the west. further east, we could see highs of 27. to get that, we need some sunshine. 27 would be the hottest
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day of august so far. wednesday night, rain taking a while to clear from north—east scotland. through the night, showers from north—western areas. a fresh night, temperatures 13—14 fairly widely. the picture through thursday, a north—west, south—east split. a flat ridge of high pressure in the south, keeping weather largely dry for southern areas on thursday. close to the low pressure in the north—west, seeing a number of showers affecting northern ireland, scotland and the north—west of england. at times, those showers could merge in northern ireland, becoming a long flow with the winds. could be lengthy in places. friday, chances of rain across the west of the uk. the driest and sunniest weather across southern and eastern areas. that's your forecast.
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welcome to bbc new, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories: a special report from yemen, where millions face starvation because of a saudi—led blockade. protests in arizona ahead of a speech from president trump, a day after a u—turn on his policy on afghanistan. as suspects in the barcelona attack appear in court, police reveal much bigger assaults were being planned. "numb and confused": princes william and harry talk to the bbc about the days after their mother's death, 20 years ago.
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