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tv   Inside Story 2020 Ep 216  Al Jazeera  August 4, 2020 2:32pm-3:01pm +03

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in the 2nd quarter it's a result of the pandemics economic fallout the company has cut its dividends by half. then god was defending this government against allegations of a renewed crackdown on dissent a local human rights group says more than 60 people have been arrested since last week. the president of bellow roussel xander look is accusing russia of trying to destabilize the country as presidential elections begin he says 33 russians arrested last week a mercenaries a claim russia denies because shanker has been facing growing opposition as he tries a 6th consecutive term in office hurrican has weakened to a tropical storm in north carolina 300000 have lost power. it's inside story now.
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first it was one way now he's taking aim at 2 top journal trump threatens to pound the chinese video in the u.s. again he signed security concerns but we'll of those alleged rants and how far will trump go in his business war against china this is inside story. hello welcome to the program. it's one of the most downloaded apps of all times and famous for its catchy videos the chinese own video sharing app tick tock has
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billions of years in the u.s. alone and many feel disappointed by president donald trump writes to ban it is our country now tech giant microsoft says it will continue talks to buy tick tocks operations in the u.s. canada australia new zealand the corporation says spoken to. trump and we'll tackle his concerns about the social media platform washington. use that data could be shared with the chinese government and videos. to talk rejects that this is what the u.s. president had to say on friday well look you know we may be. we may be doing some other things or couple of options but a lot of things so we'll see what happens but we are looking at a lot of alternatives with respect. to talks u.s. general manager of n.s.a. told its users it is staying in the country thank you to the millions of americans
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who use take every day bringing their creativity and joy into daily life we've heard your outpouring of support and we want to say thank you and we're not planning on going anywhere to the home of the creators and hardest to express themselves their ideas and connect with people across different backgrounds and we are so proud of all the various communities they call to tell their heart. china's foreign ministry has dismissed as groundless allegations the national security threats or spread propaganda to influence the u.s. presidential elections in november. sure here we are here to share it firstly what i wish to say is that china is not interested in the u.s. election we have absolutely no intention of interfering with the u.s. election and at the same time we hope that the u.s. will not obsess over china during the election some comments from susan u.s. lawmakers can be classed as making something out of nothing the chinese government
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always requires chinese companies to carry out economic cooperation abroad according to the dogs and regulations. american people to have the right attitude abandon brigitta us stop using so-called state apparatus to put pressure on chinese companies and to do more that will contribute to the promotion of chinese u.s. relations the push to ban tick-tock arms as dancers are running high between the u.s. and china in several areas donald trump has banned the use of china's while with 5 tickets in the u.s. networks and is pressuring allies to avoid it both countries are in a trade war and have imposed terrorists on its others since 2018 in january they agreed on a 1st step towards a truce and signed a trade deal but then the u.s. actually has china of suppressing information about coronavirus beijing's reject that allegation they're also at odds over china's imposition of
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a national security law in hong kong is abuse of the rights of where gun was loans and beijing's claims in the south china sea. let's bring in our panel in beijing we have victor gao his vice president of the center for china and globalization in oxford we have. a researcher of the oxford internet institute in bangkok we have a man who is the co-host of the pod cast china tech investor welcome to your victor when you have trump saying basically that he cannot trust to talk and you have been payers saying there is a trojan horse for the chinese intelligence i think the government in beijing should be pretty much concerned about this stuff well this kind of arbitrary and one term act by the u.s. government are to be condemned and deplore but i think this reveals the true nature
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of the so-called national security concerns you basically make a year's national concern national security concern to incriminate anything you want and this is really a turning point of the u.s. government turning from a champion of free trade to a destroyer of free trade and i seen this day will be marked usually inthe middle of the could use users location and method data and the trump administration is very much concerned that that data could be turned over to the chinese government how do you know when are those concerns or do you think they have been manipulated for political reasons oh well definitely i feel that way but again chest i mean facebook and other u.s. companies have sort of you know have that broad went to be shouting get our part you know don't do election management nation where nothing has happened that dark
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yet it doesn't you know there's it's just in a legit claim that picked up may or may not do based on that because to ban a company doesn't make sense and the actor look at this in the long term picture well what get up. as a dent are the countries like india and us going to threaten with that are going to ban another country's app like that you know if it's in effect in the freedom of choice that i think going to be you know if i want to abandon i can just do it because my country my 2 i mean i'm a little concerned about this obvious but this is not only a trump i mean you have many politicians in the usa and basically that china has 2 major issues which is basically the issue of trust and the issue of censorship on footbath the cannot trust to have them operating in the own networks do you think that this is the moment for the chinese government to recode sign for with the fact that this needs to be tackled in a different and transparent approach and i don't i can't speak for the chinese
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government at this point but i think this really is an issue that is 3 issues in 11 is data security and as my other guest here said you know this is an issue that goes far beyond china you know the tick tock play fast and loose with the thought of space but it adds another layer that it is from a country that the u.s. considers to be an adversary the 2nd is that tick tock plays a very interventionist role when it comes to the recommendation of the council that they send out now we've seen with facebook and we've seen you know with other platforms as well that that that content can be manipulated and if we don't care if the u.s. doesn't know where that coming from or who's manipulating that that content then i then that's a big question mark that is the same reason why china is the so heavily censors and that all content essentially that comes into their internet or even their cinemas
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or their televisions from from other nations and the 3rd is an issue of trade and market access reciprocity so you know china has this very well known great firewall and has advocated for the policy of i burst sovereignty which essentially says that . that every country should be allowed to regulate the internet within its own borders as it deems fit and that's one big reason why we haven't seen american companies really succeed in china so. how we actually have this until we actually see that you know we have an agreement between china and the united states when it comes to this and it doesn't look good ok picture for the time being though victor tick-tock seems to have 2 options sell its operations in the us to microsoft or face being shut down what do you think could be the outcome in the near term well 1st of all whatever tick tock will eventually do and the pressure of the u.s.
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government this will be a sad day and this will be a turning point because this means the united states is really dropping from the top of the mountain down to whichever abyss in my eventually end up with and this is really bad because any country can use national security concern to do anything and this creates all the ob trina's in the cyber space and the united states in the treat war with china has been accusing china of forcing foreign companies to transfer their technology and this is even worse china is not guilty of such pressure on foreign companies but this time the united states is really revealing its true nature it's forcing a company to shut down or to transfer to another american company purely because of the nature of the nature of the shareholders of the company minute i don't think this is good for the u.s. technological breakthrough going forward or right we have some sort of divide here
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in the u.s. about about about the case of to talk supporters of trump saying that the man is delivering on a promise he made in the past he's very good at the goetia deals and he thinks that the best deals with china were wrong so he's rewriting the chapter others on the other hand say that the reason why his targeting tic talk is basically because it's been the platform for many activists. those activists have been very critical of him yeah i mean it's a very interesting situation right there and that's true for every other platform door so facebook the same and so as to adore and so as a whole facebook entity which has got any of your instagram and whatsapp everywhere you find all kinds of people there that's a new as adults entertainment this fashion there's. lifestyle and so the point is that ticked off is not an american company which is why probably trump is not so happy with it you know what i'm working on right now is something called what you are geopolitics of how that companies like facebook have kind of
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a supreme messy like the u.s. has in the world and it doc is an equivalent in that in the water space which is a chinese counterpart so just watch the kind of what's trend coming in from our increasingly becoming popular platform specially with a euro is something that maybe you know on the whole u.s. air is not ok with which means and give some really funny statements which are which are like you know we're doing something with thinking of an art and that there be one macros have to buy it or some new u.s. company should take up the space i think it's a lot more people dead oh and you know it's it's also one of the things is that it doesn't get the platform doesn't allow political advertising as yet and that something which does not make it it is a great political platform for tramples who as a populist as our breath somebody who is the pozen media and used to reach out to it is would obey it's finding it a little. difficult to work that. we have an irony here trump says the reason why he's after ticked off his because of the pull records of china when it comes to
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dealing with with critics on the other hand you have people saying that the reason why trump is targeting tick-tock is because he's been trying to silence those who just refuse him to talk particular people affiliated with black live black lives matter who use the platform to rally international support for the cause we have. 2 conflicting well vs here yeah i think it is important to look at a few different groups here one is there's trump himself who i mean if i'm going to be frank i mean he's an idiot. and he is a narcissist and i think that you know it's when he sees you know these people protesting him i take talking that's something that really you know fires his neurons but i think it's more important to look at the u.s. national security establishment particularly people like mike kayo or matthew pot injure who have i think far deeper national security concerns and maybe
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i would imagine they could probably use some of these ego jabs that trump gets from tick tock you know there's 2 to encourage him to make that decision but i think that you know whether or not trump is still president beginning at the beginning of next year i think that that the china u.s. issues are going to continue because they're far more systemic and i think that includes tick-tock and the bigger u.s. china tech tension. let's move on to the broader picture of this particular story victor do you see this as a tactical move by trump or do you see it as the beginning of a new era where in gays humans will be part of the past no i think under president trump and channel u.s. relations have been battered and i think the u.s. decision makers in washington have really spared no efforts in trying to poison channel u.s. relations to urge the american people to adopt an antagonistic deal against china while at the same time china is not an enemy of the united states and people in
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china are very much friendly towards the united states this gives me hope that in the medium and longer term china and the united states need to figure out a way to get along with each other whether you like the other or not that's another issue but the only option is to get along with each other anywhere in washington is indulging in fantasy if he or she believes that u.s. can manhandle china without any consequences there will be consequences and in about 10 years time china will be significantly larger than it is and this will be a megatrend that no one can resist so i think decision makers in washington need to eventually come to terms with the fact that they need to get alarm with the china larger and probably more impactful of the united states china today or 10 years later will not be of enemy of the united states that's a megatrend i firmly believe the mega i don't think that trump will wake up
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tomorrow and decide i'm going to shut down. tick tock but at the same time he has many. powers to use in the near future to limit the presence and the use of tick tock in the united states of america can tick tock survive the the this and the more city now. because. right now i mean that's not companies that run very fast i'm sure that figure out a way to spare. somewhere you know in the in the world because it's a plot is putting up acting so and you have bans that on subtle bounds and you're as bad at that other countries ban it so it isn't going to go. so i i'm afraid i don't really have a clear on such a right by till i don't think it's going to stop here if it's an interesting thing which we can only see what's going to happen. i mean some can use his executive
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order under the emergency powers act to limit the use of the of the app in the u.s. or to ask american companies not to plant a formal to deep last full text i think that's as far as he can go do you expect resupply city from the chinese government if that happens yeah i think it's probably likely what we've seen before is that usually when the u.s. does something to a chinese company they china will do something to a u.s. company and again we can expect reciprocity the question is how exactly they will they will do that i mean what are they going to do block google or facebook i mean they've already done that so i think that the broader issue here is you know china you know they've advocated for this concept of cyber sovereignty and the u.s. has in part because it has a broader security umbrella and they don't have the same security rivals that china has had with the u.s. . that they can promote defy the free trade in
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a free and open internet when we're in you know what can be considered a more multipolar world now where you know china is much stronger but also when you're looking at that logic you know if china's promoting cyber sovereignty the moment that their internet companies go abroad game theory want to one that other companies other countries whether they be india or australia or the united states have to start applying that same logic because there is a national security component that is involved and the reality of the situation is that china is not an ally of these other countries and that is really the crux of it and then tell we get this diplomatic situation solved we're going to we're going to keep having this problem. victor of a been listening to you talking about how this is an acrostic with morden times but the same time you haven't been talking to me about some of the issues that china need to address in the near future the great fire war the treatment of the were
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going muslims the the use of the limiting internet use the us in hong kong to clamp down on dissent i think at the same time china has to understand that for it to move forward in the near future it has to reinvent itself in a way or another well if china can further improve whatever we are doing we will further improve but if other countries want to put more pressure on china and to demand that china change not for the better but to be more like their own for example that's impossible now you mention several thing 1st allow me to emphasize that tip top is completely a private company and many of the shareholders are actually american shareholders especially in their operations the c.e.o. all of the u.s. operations of america and the server for the u.s. operation is completely housed in the united states what else can you all expect for a company operating in
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a very fashionable amana and love to buy 100000000 users in the united states for example i think eventually these users may want to revolt the current president out of office if he really ruffles the feathers not with china but more importantly. messes around with the users of tick tock in the united states that's i think the reason why i'm personally very confident that tick tock are many many other similar companies coming out of the big pipeline out of china will eventually demonstrate to the world that the if they worry about national security these are not the trees they need to park i see your point i think and they really do their homework rather then for example barking at the wrong tree ok i feel like you want to jump in here. well i think what he's saying is somewhat
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true and i mean to be clear i'm a big fan of many of these chinese technology companies i think that what john you mean by dan done is really really innovative and quite impressive i work with a giant technology companies as the on the other hand you know if i were working in d.c. and it was my job to look out for american national security. i may make a similar decision to what the troubling ministration made and i think that it is a shame that many of these you know really innovative and great chinese technology companies are hindered by the relations between the u.s. and china right now but at the same time i think to to put all the blame on the trumpet ministration here i think is is a little shortsighted because i think there are far more deep systemic issues that need to be solved indeed a megaton for him particularly now if you look at the situation the how the echo of the what's going on what's been going on in the past particularly the targeting of
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. telecommunications giants like. trump a venn again if you look at it as we speak now it seems to be overtaken some soon to become the world number one for small stone sales. it seems the trump's policy is backfiring in a way or another oh well i think it is sort of backbiting because i go back to my old argument which is about developing the same kind of supremacy that deck and watch when spain's rich or you did us and i'm not jumping you wants to maintain because it gives him country it's a same argument that you know there is this hedge of many of they want to maintain and they don't want china to be you know coming equal to that kind of a power in any way i mean so yeah i think i think it is kind of backsliding it is kind of not going as you must have imagined it to be victor china has its own geo political ambitions as well as technological ambitions but against the backdrop of
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this feud with the united states of america it seems a trump wants china 1st of all to make some concessions to be able to move forward and ultimately you do understand as well that if the americas decide to go for the sticks approach many many chinese companies will ultimately collapse. you know i don't think so i think i think for any chinese tech company and their roots are in china because we have the largest population in the world and the largest of all the bull population in the world which actually generates a lot of revenue to support these tech companies and this is a megatrend not only on the hardware side but also on the service sides and also on the innovation side there are lots of companies coming out of the big pipeline as i just now mentioned and with a much better and reinforced 5 g. network you know are expecting a lot of these applications this explains why why are we such
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a successful company why to talk is so successful in a very short of time and there are many many such examples not only in t.m.t. but also in many other sectors so i think the decision makers in washington really need to understand what's the driving force for these. innovation and entrepreneurship in china it's not because of the. socialism for example or common ism it's because of the dairy to experiment with all kinds of things so that through work to improve productivity and efficiency this is a mega trend in china thank you thank you thank you for to run out of time but this is quite an interesting story listen how we of course in the coming weeks fix the mega mishra earlier thank you very much indeed for your insights. and thank you too for watching you can see the program again and its time by visiting
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